Relationship between Vision Impairments and Psychedelics

[Ganj]

Can anyone in the need of glasses/contacts give some insight into how the need of a vision aid effects your visuals? I myself have fairly poor eye sight, I could easily function in life without glasses/contacts but reading far away writing/facial expressions can be challenging. I am not quite sure quite how psychedelics effect your vision, whether they interfere with the signal as it is received or if it distorts the signal somewhere further along the chain, but presumably if the visuals are all internal, they should not be effected by a vision problem.

If without a vision aid your brain receives a blurry image of the world (Although you could argue that even perfect 20/20 eyesight is not a perfectly clear image of the world) would psychedelics simply mess up the image even further making it even harder to perceive your surroundings or would they present the blurry image, but effected by the visuals but not necessarily any less clear?

A classic visual like seeing a face on a wall, would the face be blurry without a vision aid or would the face look the same whether you had a vision aid or not?

Sorry if there is not a clear question here, I'm not entirely sure how to phrase this but I haven't seen a thread like this before and I really would like to know. I would go and find out for myself, but the mushrooms don't start growing for a few months, Im not old enough to order RC's and if I asked around for psychedelics people would just look at me oddly and ask if thats a strain of weed.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I wear glasses, I can only see things up close normally and can't read much that's 10 feet or further from me, even less if it's tiny of course. I spent a good amount of an acid trip with my glasses off, and basically, it seemed like there were a heck of a whole lot of after images; everything looked soft kinda, and things seemed to move in slow motion. With glasses on, the visuals seemed more 'defined' so to speak, like I could see the infinite depth to anything and everything before my eyes. Less slow motion, less after images.

By the way, I've never seen a face on the wall or anything like that. Psychedelics are nothing like what your imagination can even possibly conceive. Visuals are more like tracers, fractal images, infinitely repeating patterns, curved door frames, etc. Not like talking to non-existent entities.

Essentially, without your glasses the visuals would indeed be blurry, where you couldn't see details really, but everything seems to drag it's image across your view. Like if you waved your arms in front of you, it would look blurry, like it was multiple images of your arms layered but not exactly lining up perfectly.

And to be honest, drugs like LSD or mushrooms are less about the visuals, and more about the infinite revelations and feelings of oneness with the universe that you experience.

 

[sekio]

It really depends. Lots of psychedelics cause pupil dilation which can make your eyes more physically sensitive to light. and thereby increase/decrease visual acuity in some cases. Most of the distortions and "visuals" happen at a much higher level though. You can still perceive very intricate visuals even if you need glasses normally, because the hallucinations happen in your symbolic representation of the world, not in your eyes.

Related reading...
http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/pdf/PIT-Print-Web.pdf

 

[infectious]

Ya know, only semi-relevant, but underground data suggests that LSD or Psilocin can be effective at treating color blindess, sometimes with the benefits lasting upto 3-6 months.

 

[Ganj]

By the way, I've never seen a face on the wall or anything like that. Psychedelics are nothing like what your imagination can even possibly conceive. Visuals are more like tracers, fractal images, infinitely repeating patterns, curved door frames, etc. Not like talking to non-existent entities.
.

I have taken shrooms before on a number of occasions, my fault for not explaining that, and for the record I have in fact seen a face on a tree before while tripping you explained what psychedelics are to you very well, but I personally disagree , to me visuals are the primary reason for taking psychedelics (or at least shrooms, the only psychedelic I have taken) and although I admit this is sort of shallow, I have never returned form a trip with any form of insight, due to the fact the visuals baffle me so much I never stop to think about anything other than the present and really live in the moment while tripping but I do of course experience a very odd-angled and different thought processes, which is what makes the visuals so fun imo.

Visuals being more defined makes sense, A positive of being able to switch between glasses and not is that it allows you to enjoy proper vision more. People with normal vision will never truly cherish it ^^


Thanks sekio, that was the anwser I was looking for, ill go read that now.

 

[phuckingnutz]

...to me visuals are the primary reason for taking psychedelics (or at least shrooms, the only psychedelic I have taken) and although I admit this is sort of shallow, I have never returned form a trip with any form of insight, due to the fact te visuals baffle me so much I never stop to think about anything other than the present and really live in the moment while tripping but I do of course experience a very odd-angled and different thought processes, which is what makes the visuals so fun imo.

Visuals being more defined makes sense, A positive of being able to switch between glasses and not is that it allows you to enjoy proper vision more. People with normal vision will never truly cherish it ^^

Yep, I'm into the visuals too.
IMO, DMT is what you should try if you're into the visual aspect of tripping.
To me, smoked DMT is 80%+ visual and 20% or so "headspace".
Now, IM DMT is the best of both...awesome visuals with a fair amount of headspace...maybe 50/50.
Ayahuasca is probably 80/20 the other way...more headspace than visual.

Also, I wear reading glasses, but on DMT or shrooms my visuals are crystal clear...my vision, in general, improves while doing LSA and will remain that way for days after.

 

[Ganj]

Ya know, only semi-relevant, but underground data suggests that LSD or Psilocin can be effective at treating color blindess, sometimes with the benefits lasting upto 3-6 months.

Thats fascinating! Ill have a look into that. Phucking DMT is one of the psychs I'm not to keen on. Too many reports mention aliens probing and experimenting on your body and insect like entites, no thanks to that :/ I understand elements of that are present in other psychs but DMT seems to unlock the "key to the universe"or so you think at high doses, I wouldn't like to bare that much information and not be able to share it with people without risking sounding insane. I guess that's all higher dosage stuff but I've got a lot of things to try before I smoke DMT.

And as far to IM'ing goes I understand it doesn't carry the risks + stigma of IV'ing but I still have a little personal problem with administering through anything but an orifice.

I have no doubt at some point Ill sit down and use psych's in a more mature manner, but not much beats some nice spiritually meaningless breathing walls

 

[phuckingnutz]

And as far to IM'ing goes I understand it doesn't carry the risks + stigma of IV'ing but I still have a little personal problem with administering through anything but an orifice.

Please don't misunderstand, the numbers and ROA's I threw out there were informational.
I don't recommend anyone starting out their psych experience by shooting DMT...that said, ayahuasca is very manageable...more so, IMO, than shrooms.

Have fun...take your time.

Oh, I've never seen any "entities" and I've done DMT...A LOT. I've seen some weird shit , but no aliens...God...maybe...ET...never.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I mean, I enjoy visuals, but I honestly think I don't get them as strong as other people. For me, the lessons learned on my trips seep into my daily life, and can be quite helpful. I do get visuals, but I've never seen any kind of image formed from them. Rather, it's more just patterning, infinite patterning. My favorite place for visuals are bathrooms hahahah, they always have trippy ass floor patterns. Always.

 

[bunnyhentman]

I have very bad near-sightedness and astigmatisms in both eyes (corrected with glasses). Psychedelic visuals are clear as day -- although they might be different from people with normal vision because everything else is very foggy. Sometimes I feel like psychedelics make it harder for me to focus. I focus on the surface of the lens on my glasses instead of seeing through them. There have been a few times on LSD I could see without my glasses at distances that should be blurry, maybe because of pupil dilation.

 

[abracadabra girl]

Disclaimer: I've never had visuals on psychedelics. I did once while in a K-hole. But it occurs to me that since CEV exist, they wouldn't be affected by one's vision since the eyes aren't even involved. OEV might be different -- I would expect trails/tracers/patterns to be blurry since they're being seen for real and then distorted. This is fascinating to me since I wear thick glasses.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Ok, first for harm reduction, this is a kid in scotland "not old enough" to order rc's. This is a good thing. You should take it slowly and wait awhile. Let me explain how I feel concerning the situation and the various classes of drugs, and their alteration of your subjective experience (all sensory input, plus your consciousness/awareness/thoughts).

Most psychedelics are classed as hallucinogens, meaning invoking a hallucination: "an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

This is a very grey area, but what you saw was a distortion that you perceived as a face in the tree can also be called pareidolia

Pareidolia (/pærɨˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-doh-lee-ə) is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant, a form of apophenia. Common examples include seeing images of animals or faces in clouds, the man in the moon or the Moon rabbit, and hearing hidden messages on records when played in reverse.

Psychedelics can indeed induce this. The two definitions kind of intersect.

On LSA I've perceived everything slightly of sync but parallel to itself, like a doubling of everything in your visual field along edges. Very hard to put into words.
Mushrooms have induced fractal patters emanating from everything.

But the only drugs I would call true hallucinogens (and I hope I'm not invoking the no true scotsman fallacy) are the deleriants like "Datura stramonium" which basically contains atropine (an tropane alkaloid - look it up further if you like organic chemistry, I'd have to to give an exact definition). Experiences with this class of drugs, people have talked to people who aren't there, whereas the most regularly used drugs (LSD/Mushrooms) at lower doses don't produce such experiences.

Don't get me wrong, almost every psychadelic at a high enough dose could do far more than merely distorting your visual perception a little.

Disassociatives and deliriants and typical psychedelics at high does can produce what's known as ego loss.

Ego loss is the complete loss of the feeling that you are something distinct from anything else. There is no you. It is pretty ineffable (can't be described) until you've experienced it. Some people derive religious or mystical revelations from this state. I would say that almost every experience I've had with this class of drugs has been positive. I don't believe there are any divine revelations, but I believe you can learn that there are different ways of perceiving the world.

One must always be cautious with set setting, and the people you're with.

Edit, just looked at what seiko posted, pretty authoritative explanation - it is a great idea to research a whole lot before experimenting with this class of drugs read it all!

“I think we have given too much emphasis and so much attention to the fact that it can be dangerous and that it can hurt an individual who uses it… that perhaps to some extent we have lost sight of the fact that it can be very, very helpful in our society if used properly.”

I wonder what society would be like today if Robert Kennedy had never been shot, that was him speaking on LSD.

 

[psood0nym]

Early psycholgical experiments on cats that were blindfolded or kept in darkness for the majority of the day indicate profound neurodevelopmental effects on visual perception (for example, see this account). If you needed visual correction since you were born and did not receive it (and you wouldn't expect to), it's possible that you are visualizing less than you might have otherwise in some respects, just because what is possible to see in any way seems to depend on what has been seen). In the same respect, if you are nearsighted you may be visualizing things during psychedelic trips that are richer in how they're informed in "close-up" visual memories than you might have otherwise, just because you've spent more time attending to close-up things with greater visual acuity than those with 20/20 vision or better, and thus you weigh them differently, or the opposite for farsighted individuals.

 

[pmoseman]

Early psycholgical experiments on cats that were blindfolded or kept in darkness for the majority of the day indicate profound neurodevelopmental effects on visual perception (for example, see this account). If you needed visual correction since you were born and did not receive it (and you wouldn't expect to), it's possible that you are visualizing less than you might have otherwise in some respects, just because what is possible to see in any way seems to depend on what has been seen). In the same respect, if you are nearsighted you may be visualizing things during psychedelic trips that are richer in how they're informed in "close-up" visual memories than you might have otherwise, just because you've spent more time attending to close-up things with greater visual acuity than those with 20/20 vision or better, and thus you weigh them differently, or the opposite for farsighted individuals.

So basically in a cat there is brain set aside for both eyes and the obstructed eye's brain area gets stolen by the dominant eye in early development. However, cats and monkeys do develop visual cortex different from eachother and humans as well, kittens eyes stay shut after they are born.
More on visual cortex = http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/nn/web-pubs/sirosh/pvc.html

 

[psood0nym]

So basically in a cat there is brain set aside for both eyes and the obstructed eye's brain area gets stolen by the dominant eye in early development. However, cats and monkeys do develop visual cortex different from eachother and humans as well, kittens eyes stay shut after they are born.
More on visual cortex = http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/nn/web-pubs/sirosh/pvc.html

... that's true. But we share something like 60 percent of our DNA with a head of lettuce. Granted, there are very meaningful differences between us and our closest extant animal ancestors and those single digit percentage differences seem to have more than exponential consequences, but there's a reason we've previously thought of the human hindbrain as "reptilian." There's a reason the phrase "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" was coined. The neurodevelopment of cats applies to humans in profound ways, even if it's not extensive. If you know of primate studies that have replicated those early studies on cats and found profoundly different results I'll be intrigued (wrong, but still "net happy" about it).

 

[sekio]

There have been recorded reports of people with varying degrees of sensory loss (from birth vs acquired later in life) taking psychedelics, I think the consensus is that unless you were blind from birth you would still experience visual hallucinations, because the "circuitry" for generating percieved visual images is all there, except in cases where there was no visual input during childhood development. (Ref)

By the same token, acquired visual deficits won't prevent you from having detailed hallucinations.

 

[[éS]Infinite]

From my experiences, throwing on my glasses while tripping will fix my vision just as it does any other time. I've also found that my lack of proper distant sight allows me to tap more easily into visual movement during a psychedelic trip, simply because its easier to perceive something as moving when its appearance is not clearly defined. With my glasses on, visuals usually take on a vibrant and sparkling nature.

 

[pupnik]

I think my brain is very much involved with my vision.
I am 62 used to be nearsighted,
but since 45 stopped wearing any glasses, opthamologist said that my vision improved and would eventually degenerate but that I shoudl hold off using reading glasses.

I recently started using retina display resolution on mac and pc to get more text side by side, and I do use reading glasses for that some times but not always.

I am surprised that I can ever see anything clearly on these screens, but sometimes I just don't need any aid.

however with psychedelic, even reading glasses are only occasionally useful, focusing on such small things makes little sense when you are stoned - it makes more sense to allow the edges of vision flow and blend, intersect and form mandalas.

focusing on large things like what is happening on the street or in any other carnival of chaos also makes little sense, but when I was nearsighted, I did enjoy the glasses, it made the results more complex and edges were more defined even when they were layered and recombined to the point I did not recognize what I was seeing more clearly.

 

[Ganj]

Ok, first for harm reduction, this is a kid in scotland "not old enough" to order rc's. This is a good thing. You should take it slowly and wait awhile. Let me explain how I feel concerning the situation and the various classes of drugs, and their alteration of your subjective experience (all sensory input, plus your consciousness/awareness/thoughts).

Most psychedelics are classed as hallucinogens, meaning invoking a hallucination: "an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

This is a very grey area, but what you saw was a distortion that you perceived as a face in the tree can also be called pareidolia


Psychedelics can indeed induce this. The two definitions kind of intersect.

On LSA I've perceived everything slightly of sync but parallel to itself, like a doubling of everything in your visual field along edges. Very hard to put into words.
Mushrooms have induced fractal patters emanating from everything.

But the only drugs I would call true hallucinogens (and I hope I'm not invoking the no true scotsman fallacy) are the deleriants like "Datura stramonium" which basically contains atropine (an tropane alkaloid - look it up further if you like organic chemistry, I'd have to to give an exact definition). Experiences with this class of drugs, people have talked to people who aren't there, whereas the most regularly used drugs (LSD/Mushrooms) at lower doses don't produce such experiences.

Don't get me wrong, almost every psychadelic at a high enough dose could do far more than merely distorting your visual perception a little.

Disassociatives and deliriants and typical psychedelics at high does can produce what's known as ego loss.

Ego loss is the complete loss of the feeling that you are something distinct from anything else. There is no you. It is pretty ineffable (can't be described) until you've experienced it. Some people derive religious or mystical revelations from this state. I would say that almost every experience I've had with this class of drugs has been positive. I don't believe there are any divine revelations, but I believe you can learn that there are different ways of perceiving the world.

One must always be cautious with set setting, and the people you're with.

Edit, just looked at what seiko posted, pretty authoritative explanation - it is a great idea to research a whole lot before experimenting with this class of drugs read it all!


I wonder what society would be like today if Robert Kennedy had never been shot, that was him speaking on LSD.

That makes sense lolwhatsdrugz, but 'this kid in scotland' seems to be more about your view on this country than the fact I'm only 16.
The only thing this country should take credit for is its drinking (something we are damn good at!) and its not relevant to me ordering psychs .

I partially agree with you that the simply-not-there hallucinations of datura are the only real kind of hallucination and most visuals are simply distorted manifestations of what is actually there.

Also thanks for that sekio. Not to go off on a tangent but presumably psychs could trigger this 'circuitry' in blind people. Now that would really shed some good light on psychs!

I have been reading the PIT document you linked, its a good read once you get into it

 

[pmoseman]

That makes sense lolwhatsdrugz, but 'this kid in scotland' seems to be more about your view on this country than the fact I'm only 16.
The only thing this country should take credit for is its drinking (something we are damn good at!) and its not relevant to me ordering psychs .

I partially agree with you that the simply-not-there hallucinations of datura are the only real kind of hallucination and most visuals are simply distorted manifestations of what is actually there.

Also thanks for that sekio. Not to go off on a tangent but presumably psychs could trigger this 'circuitry' in blind people. Now that would really shed some good light on psychs!

I have been reading the PIT document you linked, its a good read once you get into it

Being young, below 23, you may affect your maturity.