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Mental Health Anhedonia MEGA Thread

I think that being separated from pleasure is a condition in our minds that is fed by two things: expectation and fear. When I started to practice letting go of those two things, pleasure became abundant and intense again--the way it was when I was a little, little kid. Expectation and fear (anxiety) always keep tossing us out into an imagined future and deprive us of being right where we are in the present.
this, this and again this.
 
Dysphoric before blaming your "brain chemistry" I suggest you learn the very basics e.g. the binding profile of amphetamine, the half-life and regeneration rate of dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitters/receptors, etc.

After 4 years your brain would have recovered, our brains are determined for neuroplasticity.

As for tobacco, I used to get a similar effect but within under half a year of more frequent smoking it has lost that effect (even straight through a bong)

10+ hours of sleep doesn't seem like much to me. I don't have any suggestions for your dullness, other than to cultivate things you care about/enjoy.
If your life itself is lackluster and boring, it would be unnatural for you not to feel bored and lacking.

i disagree, there are no absolutes when it comes to quitting drugs...most people will recover from drugs after a certain period of time but others will not..specifically stimulant users, when it comes to anhedonia, ive read some may suffer from a permanent breakdown in their reward pathways..

im much too familiar with anhedonia, i used and abused stims combines with opiods for many years..lets just say when sober time hit, i was full blown anhedonic and even years later, it persists..it isnt constant but its there..ive tried welbutrin and other anti-deps with little success..exercise helps boost mood but doesnt touch anhedonia..

i also kind of cringe when people recommend you to find things or activities you like or enjoy, when you are anhedonic, you dont find anything enjoyable..when you are anhedonic it gets to the point where you will give up seeking pleasure as it doesnt exist to the anhedonic person..its a very difficult affliction to deal with and i really have no good advice..doctors always lump anhedonia in with depression but its not always the case..i think the anhedonia that results from long term drug use is the toughest to deal with as your brain chemistry is at fault and how do we change that brain chemistry back, you guessed it, more drugs..
 
While some people may be prone to decreased regeneration (people of the same age, that is) I simply cannot take your side.
I know a bloke who had an accident and his physical brain trauma was so severe that he did not understand anything.
He's one of the sharpest blokes I've met, as well as being bilingual. After an injury so severe he regressed to not understanding language itself.

I've never been a meth addict, and amphetamine used without binging isn't neurotoxic, but being on BL I've read from enough ex meth addicts.

Anhedonia is a constant. If you have off days where you're not enjoying yourself, I would not feel comfortable with anyone saying you have ahnedonia.

Once again, it's easy to get in a rut. If your life doesn't consist of anything you find enjoyable, you won't be enjoying anything. That's how it works.
If your life is dull/boring, you don't have anhedonia. If your life is dull/boring because you've given up seeking out things to enjoy, you cannot expect things to improve without change.

I believe I struggle with Anhedonia, though I do (albeit very occasionally) feel good about living.
With this being said, there are still levels of comfort and displeasure. I prefer to lay in bed and stare at the wall than I do washing dishes and picking up dog turd.
Does this mean I enjoy the former? No, but I certainly prefer it, so it's more pleasurable/less displeasing than the alternative.

Sometimes music sounds more like noise and I prefer silence. Usually, I will be in a "mood" to listen to one song/band/album over another. Occasionally the music will mean something to me, but much more commonly there will be days where I "get into it" more than others, through no control of my own.

Just because it's not good, doesn't mean it's equal bad. There is still variation, and room to make changes to your life in order to get less of the real bad and more of the dull.
Anhedonia is not one blanket "everything is equally bad" which it seems like you're trying to insinuate.
There is variation day to day, and within the fundamental effect itself.

Seeking out things to enjoy is the only conscious solution to Anhedonia. Suicide removes the problem, but doesn't actually solve it. Drugs (of any nature) tend to be unsustainable and a distraction/inadequate help/brief relief at best. Doing nothing does nothing, though things can get better or more likely worse from internal changes.

If you can show me any examples of dopamine damage from people who have been sober for half a decade, I would love to see it.
 
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when anhedonia first hits, you will still seek out things to enjoy only to realize those things do not give reward, things that should provide pleasure..im not talking about poop scooping or washing dishes..over time, you gradually withdraw and stop seeking out pleasure for the most part as there is no point..that has been my experience, when sex doesnt even give you the pleasure it should, there is a problem..there is a very flattened reward from doing things..depending on your anhedonia, your motivation might dwindle to almost nothing or it might stay hovering just enough to get te bare basics done..

abstract-from the way you describe anhedonia, you seem like you suffer from a minor case of it because you are acting as if its just a case of 'trying new things'..read case studies of people with anhedonia, their lives basically shrink over time ..

well when it comes to drug addicts and long term dopamine damage, ive read enough and talked to enough addicts to realize there is a loss of pleasure after using drugs for long periods..it does var from person to person, some may great recoveries..l some neuro-scientists like James Fallon believe that the dopamine or hedonic system was malfunctioning in addicts long before drugs were ever taken, hence the reason people started taking drugs in the first place..what he said makes sense..
 
I've barely left my bedroom by my own volition in the past 6 years; I don't need you to tell me what Anhedonia is..

I completely agree that doing drugs makes life less pleasurable, but it's not from Dopamine damage.
Thrashing a sports car after only driving a shitbox will make your first car less enjoyable.
Is it any different to before you drove the sportscar? No, but you enjoy it much less than the previous time.



I'm not acting like it's a case of trying new things at all. You have completely misunderstood me, and it's probably my fault.
I'm saying that if you're not trying enjoyable activities, if all you're doing is going to work, doing chores, and sleeping, your life will not become enjoyable with no change.
If you're living a compressed life, you cannot expect it to magically expand. If you're living a large life and it seems small, then you're free to go back to emptiness until it becomes unbearable again.

All I'm trying to shine light on is that having anhedonia causes ones life itself to contain less enjoyable activities.
After a while, you simply cannot know whether it's you or your lifestyle without trying to enjoy yourself again.
If you disagree with this, I can't see much point in me discussing this further with you.

In fact, I can't see the point in discussing this.
As someone with some form of Anhedonia it's down right comical for me to talk about solutions in the midst of this.
Don't enjoy things? Look for things to enjoy, or resign to not enjoying things. Those are the options I see, and unfortunately the latter is much easier to act upon.

Your buddy Fallon makes absolutely no sense to me, too.

Good luck, OP.
 
you not leaving your bedroom on your own volition could be due to different factors other than anhedonia..

of course you cant shrivel up and just lay in the corner of your bedroom and expect things to get more enjoyable BUT when you do things that should be quite enjoyable and there is no reward, something is wrong..things may others enjoy, yet you are flat, something isnt clicking upstairs, im not sure how much better i can explain it..whether its due to dopamine and other neurotransmitters, hard to say, even experts can only theorize..

ehh id probably listen to james Fallon if i were you, me and this entire forum lol...he probably knows much more on this subject than this sub-forum put together...google him on youtube and listen to his interview when he talks about addicts and theur behavior..it makes perfect sense..check it out..

oh i agree, its pointless to talk about anhedonia, im not getting any pleasure whatsoever out of it :)
 
I know. Like I mentioned before, thanks, but I'm seriously just frustrated after 4 years of dealing with it. I've already had one of my teachers a while ago tell me to not view it negatively and take on a more positive optimist outlook on things, but I don't know. Its not only that but I've been lacking in the motivation department pretty severely and have even taken on a 10+ hour sleep schedule due to how bored and lackluster life is for the most part. I feel like if I could just make this slight change, be it psychologically or neurologically. I could finally get out of this rut. I'm so close yet so far. :p
I haven't read every word of this thread, but it seems you aren't seeing a psychiatrist. Why is that? Are you afraid he is just going to prescribe SSRI's? If so, why are you not willing to try those? It seems you've never been on them before. Granted, they're aren't all that great, but I know plenty of people who have gotten huge benefits from their use during difficult times.

If a psychiatrist is not an option, have you looked into ketamine and dextromethorphane? They are both excellent antidepressants. If you cannot get ahold of ketamine, see if you can get DXM capsules, they're OTC, very cheap and dosed at 30mg over here, which is an excellent daily dose. Their effects are extremely subtle, you will not feel much if anything off 30mg. Just take one daily and see where that takes you.

Btw I can relate very well to the anhedonia, I am bipolar1 and have also experienced that symptom pretty much isolated for months on end. I'm not tired, but I just want the day to pass so I can get back to bed, because NOTHING brings the least bit of pleasure. Not even talking to my friends, computer games, eating, masturbating, doing stuff with my daughter, just NOTHING. It's very frustrating to see all the good things in life pass by like that. I really hope you can get it under control! <3

Edit: Btw I had also been using amphetamine daily for 2 1/2 years, but the anhedonia hit me many months after I had already stopped using speed (now over 1 years without), so I have a hard time buying into speed being the reason for this.
 
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Im 60 days clean today from suboxone. Ive used stims occasionally over the past few years also. But im clean off of everything now. Ive been experiencing anhedonia and alot of brain fog.

I decided to try noopept and it certainly helps with the brain fog and increases motivation. I think it can help with anhedonia because i tend to take in more of whats going on around me and it makes for a more memorable experience. Im more involved with what im doing so it makes it more pleasurable. Thats just my thoughts on it. Havent had enough time to see measure difference in the anhedonia but im hopeful.
 
I took 37.5 mg tianeptine last night while feeling rather anhedonic. I didn't try doing anything really enjoyable after that, but within an hour I felt more comfortable doing what I wanted (writing a few thousand words) and it was as close to enjoyable as doing so could be (without actually being high). I was feeling good enough to fight the tiredness from mirtazapine and stay up a little later than usual to finish what I had started.

I'm not sure if was an effect of tianeptine but it seems like the most likely cause. After I started to feel a little better, I hit the ecig pretty hard too.

Feeling good in in the evening isn't normal and how I felt last night was consistent with how I've felt most nights for the past week, so the other potential causes I've identified probably have nothing to do with it: eating ice cream (enjoying food, especially sweets, is a side effect of mirtazapine), or it being late in the day and the medications I take every morning wearing off, of the mirtazapine I take in the early evening starting to kick in.

I had a weird experience while sleeping last night that might be linked to tianeptine, nicotine, or staying up so late ... but I'm not sure. I think it may have been a seizure and it might not have been the first. I'm finally appreciating the risk of drug combinations...
 
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I took 37.5 mg tianeptine last night while feeling rather anhedonic. I didn't try doing anything really enjoyable after that, but within an hour I felt more comfortable doing what I wanted (writing a few thousand words) and it was as close to enjoyable as doing so could be (without actually being high). I was feeling good enough to fight the tiredness from mirtazapine and stay up a little later than usual to finish what I had started.

I'm not sure if was an effect of tianeptine but it seems like the most likely cause. After I started to feel a little better, I hit the ecig pretty hard too.

Feeling good in in the evening isn't normal and how I felt last night was consistent with how I've felt most nights for the past week, so the other potential causes I've identified probably have nothing to do with it: eating ice cream (enjoying food, especially sweets, is a side effect of mirtazapine), or it being late in the day and the medications I take every morning wearing off, of the mirtazapine I take in the early evening starting to kick in.

I had a weird experience while sleeping last night that might be linked to tianeptine, nicotine, or staying up so late ... but I'm not sure. I think it may have been a seizure and it might not have been the first. I'm finally appreciating the risk of drug combinations...

I've always been very interested in Tianeptine, but its not prescribed here. <snip> I realize you can order it, but it still sketches me out due to the worries of contamination that happens all the time with RC's and even Racetams bought online.
 
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I've always been very interested in Tianeptine, but its not prescribed here. <snip> I realize you can order it, but it still sketches me out due to the worries of contamination that happens all the time with RC's and even Racetams bought online.
I think it's a bit irrational that you put your hopes into this substance, when there are others out there which are readily available and have been proven to work (more or less), SSRI's or alternatively NMDA antagonists. I asked you why you don't want to treat this the way any psychiatrist would treat it, but you didn't reply. You first fend off the advice given by those who suggested environmental causes, but you don't react to my pharmacological suggestions either. The only thing I read in your latest post is tianeptine, like you had the solution for your problems all along. ;)
 
If you've gone through a few antidepressants already you might want to try abilify and/or wellbutrin. Also the monoamine oxidase inhibitors are great at combating atypical depression.
 
. If MAOI's don't work for you perhaps try something like Welbutrin or Effexor.. at least these are reuptake inhibtors at DA/NE sites.
Yes, try wellbutrin, I have ADD and also some anhedonia myself, I look back when I doubt the wellbutrin, it's then I realise how much I like the stuff.
Great for eliminating 'indecisive couch lock syndrome'
........... more positive optimist outlook on things, but I don't know. Its not only that but I've been lacking in the motivation department pretty severely and have even taken on a 10+ hour sleep schedule due to how bored and lackluster life is for the most part.
Don't do that, no more than 7-8 hours tops, anymore will make you a zombie.
(Unless of course you are prepping for the zombie apocalypse)
Well, I just recently had some tobacco the other day, and I can definitely say that it combats my symptoms fairly effectively.....................

This is really annoying. Why is it that the only thing that seems to work very efficiently have to be very physiologically harmful?! :X I'm just mainly concerned about is my heart.

Why does it have to be this way? :(
Ever hear of nicorettes?
And oh yeah, the E-cigs like a poster mentioned.

Another poster said Wellbutrin didn't work, but you have nothing to lose by trying it, even if life still doesn't thrill you, you won't be bothered by it!

Good luck!
 
I believe smoked tobacco has the most psychoactive effect; using tobacco in another form less so. Products with just nicotine, like gum, patches, and I think some e-cigs, may not provide the desired effect.

I've only smoked tobacco like 30 times ever, so I don't have much data on the possible benefits. I've never had any desire to do it regularly, even after smoking half a pack within a few days, although I bought my first pack of cigarettes after I started Wellbutrin. Sometimes, using regular ecigs gives me a slight boost. That might have contributed to my good feelings on Tuesday night.

Apparently there are ecig/vaporizer liquids that include more of the components in tobacco; maybe I should look into those. I've only used drug/convenience store ecigs and medical marijuana ecigs (which aren't just pure THC, for sure).

FWIW I think some of the MAOIs present in smoked tobacco, or similar ones, are available as nutritional supplements. I'm not sure; I read up on it a year ago and never did much further, and my memory could be wrong.




Wellbutrin has never done much for anhedonia for me. It does provide motivation and energy in a more subtle and sustainable way than regular d/l-amphetamine. The brand-name XL version is the only kind I think is worth taking because of its very smooth release mechanism. It might improve things enough to help change lifestyle factors if you are unmotivated to do so, or to seek out and try new solutions. (Just make sure any substances you want to try won't cause problems if you are taking Wellbutrin.)
 
It sucks that wellbutrin is the only ndri regularly considered for depression.

Why, what would you recommend? I remember a while back seeing a chemical called fencamfamine. It sounds a little similair to d-methylphenidate, but less peripheral and lasted a lot longer, unfortunately it isn't available in the US.

Also an update. I did end up getting a vape-pen. The nicotine alone isn't satisfying, its lacking the beta-carbolines (MAO's) that are found in tobacco. It definitely makes a HUGE difference. I also find that vaping is hard to tell just how much nicotine you're ingesting so its not something I feel comfortable with doing as well.
 
Anhedonia is a constant.
Anhedonia is simply a symptom that can appear and disappear. I don't understand the part about it being a "constant".

Once again, it's easy to get in a rut. If your life doesn't consist of anything you find enjoyable, you won't be enjoying anything. That's how it works.
If your life is dull/boring, you don't have anhedonia. If your life is dull/boring because you've given up seeking out things to enjoy, you cannot expect things to improve without change.
While you are describing part of the dynamics of depression there, for somebody to fulfill the criteria of anhedonia he has to have lost the ability to experience pleasure partaking in activities that he USED TO enjoy. A healthy individual does not have to seek new thrills his entire life. Ofc we all have lost interest in hobbies, but it's very striking when somebody claims to not have any fun with things he used to be enjoying a lot. This can be temporary. That's the medical definition (not word by word) and that's also how I experience anhedonia during those lovely depressive episodes.

Just because it's not good, doesn't mean it's equal bad. There is still variation, and room to make changes to your life in order to get less of the real bad and more of the dull.
Anhedonia is not one blanket "everything is equally bad" which it seems like you're trying to insinuate.
There is variation day to day, and within the fundamental effect itself.
While I wholeheartedly agree to this, there are also degrees to the severity of depression. In many cases the differences you talk about simply can not be perceived anymore or become irrelevant due to being so miniscule. In even more severe cases an individual will sometimes not even have the energy to even take a piss outside of his bed, as sad as that may seem. Even if the underlying phenomenom is not an "all is bad" blanket, this discrimination again becomes irrelevant because to the patient "all is bad". I don't want to mix things up here, in rare cases a person can still feel quite a bit of joy, but the tiredness and weakness has him bound to the bed. But anyway, the lines can blur.

Seeking out things to enjoy is the only conscious solution to Anhedonia. Suicide removes the problem, but doesn't actually solve it.
While I like your spirit, I'm afraid some things in life do not have a solution. A change in behaviour cannot offer one, neither can medication or a miracle. Some people are unfortunately deeply fucked and no effort of theirs or anyone else will ever change that, just like nothing will change the fact that some people have glioblastoma and nothing will save them from dying within weeks.
That being said, I think suicide is actually the best course of action for some severely ill people. It might not solve the problem for the people left behind, but it sure the fuck solves it for the patient. I hope that one day we can all become comfortable with this idea and won't force people to have the last action they take in life be colored by feelings of guilt, shame and secrecy, but instead let them make their peace with their last ones as if they had died from a predictable natural cause.

Drugs (of any nature) tend to be unsustainable and a distraction/inadequate help/brief relief at best.
Definitely true for today's primitive drugs when it comes to treatment of depression. We might actually make progress there some day though.
"Of any nature" though? I am highly sceptical, I've seen plenty of people with schizophrenia live for very long periods of time without symptoms, presumably thanks to neuroleptics. Ofc we can never tell, if these people might have not been fine without neuroleptics. There are no good studies on the subject at all.
On the other hand antidepressants should aid in the treatment of depression (and with that ofc anhedonia) through another different way than sustaining some sort of improved state. Especially in mild cases the idea is to give them to a patient in order for him to change his ways during a limited period of time. This is usually aided by behavioural therapy. I've seen it work amazingly way in my formerly completely socially withdrawn friend who has now had a steady relationship for 4 years and doing very well for himself. Without antidepressants, he could've never pulled off that therapy.
 
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Dear Readers,


I would be very grateful to anyone who can help answer one or more questions of mine below from your own experiences and knowledge:

1) Does anyone know of any correlations between anhedonia and pituitary function?

2) Might there by a pharmaceutical approach (whether extant or theoretical) to mimic the positive effects of sleep deprivation on anhedonia without actually having to physically deprive oneself of sleep?

3) Has anyone gotten significant relief from anhedonia through the semi-regular use of salvia to downregulate kappa opioid receptors?

4) Has anyone used low-dose amisulpride or aripiprazole to alleviate anhedonia? I assume they negate stimulant use, but do you think they have the potential to alleviate anhedonia enough to do away with stimulant use altogether??

5) I have heard that TMS can be helpful for depression in general, but has anyone experienced substantial relief of anhedonia from TMS alone?


Thanks Much !!


*****Please kindly consider referencing the numbering system above in replying to my post.
 
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I have some anhedonia since I quit suboxone, particularly to social interaction

I am hoping it will fade with time
 
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