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Heroin Heroin isn't very strong for me (First timer)

S

Sectator

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
21
Hey BL.

So I've bought some afghan heroin base 3 and some stamps base 4, now I'm not sure on what usual dosage is and I know it varies greatly from product to product but whenever I dose it turns out to be a very mild high.

When I used the afghan heroin I had 80mg dissolved with citric acid and then plugged and it was very mild.
The same goes for the "pure" china white heroin which I had 45mg plugged also and it was also very mild, enjoyable but nothing intense.

When I dose with 400mg codeine I only feel the negative side effects (itching, drowsiness) but no euphoria, I'm not sure if this could be related or not. Also I took codeine for over a year and usually I would potentiate with opiate agonists such as loperamide, after doing a little bit of research I've found out loperamide can greatly increase tolerance for all opiates, bummer. Again not sure if related.

Am I just getting shit heroin? I have been told from other users of the same product that they only needed one stamp which they insufflated and they were throwing up and nodding all day. I have tried insufflating a small amount to test bioavailability compared to rectal administration and the outcome of that test resulted in the belief that rectal administration works best for me.

To clarify I do not want a huge dose that will keep me nodding for hours, but I would like a fairly decent dose similar to the experiences I received from codeine (a voluntary nod for 15 minutes).


Thanks all,
S.
 
Your opioid tolerance is fairly high if 400mg of codeine doesn't get you anywhere.
 
So let's say I do have high tolerance, can I keep upping my dose each time until i actually feel moderately high? Will I be at risk of OD? I have heard a lot of reasons people overdose is not from heroin alone but other chemicals it is cut with, for example OD'ing from histamines if a batch is cut with histamines, is this very likely?

Before anyone asks, I test 5mg-10mg of every batch to estimate purity.
 
Increase your dose slowly, 5mg at a time, see how that goes.

You can do back of the napkin math to figure out approximate equivalent doses. Heroin is 2.2x as strong as morphine in the blood. Morphine is 10x as strong as codeine in the blood. So 1mg of heroin absorbed in the blood is about 20-25mg codeine equivalent.

That means 400mg codeine in blood is about 16mg of heroin in blood equivalent. Codeine is well absorbed so let's say that 100% of the oral dose is absorbed, for simplicity's sake. When you correct for the fact most heroin isn't 100% pure (say it's 50% pure) and it's not 100% absorbed when you plug it (say 50% again), you'll probably want a dose around 45-60mg to equal the narcotic potency of 400mg oral codeine. Of course it won't be a 1:1 substitution, because these numbers are really meant for the analgesic effects, but it's a ballpark figure.

It may just be that you're at the stage of opioid tolerance where you just don't get much recreational effects any more. Realistically, 40mg of heroin of even moderate purity should give a rather strong effect to an opioid naive person if it didn't floor them outright. And like I said, if you make it to the stage where 400mg codeine doesn't do much but give you nods for 15 minutes, you are well and truly deep in the rabbit hole.
 
Hey thanks for those figures, that helps clear things up a little :)

As for my opiate use; I stopped using codeine two years ago because I could no longer get high - during the time I could get high I was experiencing a 15 minute "nod". I was only using once a week but my tolerance built up suddenly around the 40th use. Ever since then I have developed a permanent tolerance to codeine, actually I guess it wasn't just codeine but all opiates.

If I do truly have a permanent tolerance to all opiates it's probably a good thing because at least I (hopefully) won't devote my life to getting high.
 
Ever since then I have developed a permanent tolerance to codeine, actually I guess it wasn't just codeine but all opiates.

If I do truly have a permanent tolerance to all opiates it's probably a good thing because at least I (hopefully) won't devote my life to getting high.
Click to expand...

That's generally how opioid tolerance works. Tolerance to one opioid is the same as any other one, and it takes eternities to go back down. It's probably best to not bother with opioids if you're at that level.
 
Sectator said:
Hey thanks for those figures, that helps clear things up a little :)

As for my opiate use; I stopped using codeine two years ago because I could no longer get high - during the time I could get high I was experiencing a 15 minute "nod". I was only using once a week but my tolerance built up suddenly around the 40th use. Ever since then I have developed a permanent tolerance to codeine, actually I guess it wasn't just codeine but all opiates.

If I do truly have a permanent tolerance to all opiates it's probably a good thing because at least I (hopefully) won't devote my life to getting high.
Click to expand...

Just dont underestimate the power of a drug just because of past tollerance (many recovering addicts last notion was a bad estimate of tollerance) . Like he said, increase dose gradualy and you will be fine. Theres no need to rush, its not like heroin is gonna go off the market anytime soon.
 
sekio said:
Heroin is 2.2x as strong as morphine in the blood. Morphine is 10x as strong as codeine in the blood. So 1mg of heroin absorbed in the blood is about 20-25mg codeine equivalent.

That means 400mg codeine in blood is about 16mg of heroin in blood equivalent. Codeine is well absorbed so let's say that 100% of the oral dose is absorbed, for simplicity's sake. When you correct for the fact most heroin isn't 100% pure (say it's 50% pure) and it's not 100% absorbed when you plug it (say 50% again), you'll probably want a dose around 45-60mg to equal the narcotic potency of 400mg oral codeine. Of course it won't be a 1:1 substitution, because these numbers are really meant for the analgesic effects, but it's a ballpark figure.should give a rather strong .
Click to expand...

I thought that only a finite amount of codeine could be converted to morphine by the body due to the fact that the enzyme responsible for turning codeine to morphine had to replenish.
If that is true then 400mg codeine might not be as big a dose as it sounds?
 
It's true that codeine stops being converted to morphine when the enzymes get saturated, but morphine is not the only active metabolite of codeine, there are others like codeine glucuronide.

The reason nobody really goes over 400mg of codeine is because you start getting rather more side effects like itching and rashes from excessive histamine release compared to its meager narcotic effect.
 
Tolerance to one opioid is the same as any other one, and it takes eternities to go back down.
Click to expand...

This is so true, and I really wish it weren't.

Amongst the dozens of other reasons NOT TO TRY fentanyl and its analogues (unless you're a chronic pain patient who has exhausted other avenues) is the fact that it jacks up your tolerance at an insane rate. So not worth the effects either, in my opinion.
 
My first couple H experiences were a little odd too. I had tried methadone, oxy and hydrocodone before. When I first tried H I felt it but it made me irritated rather than euphoric. It wasn't until about the third time I tried it that I got an intense euphoric feeling.
 
this is straight ignorance and shows how little you know.

and yes, if your boys are addicted to a 40/bag a day, then they really dont have too bad of an addiction on their hands. they should be able to kick that w/ ease; esp. if they are just smoking that 40.
 
I dont use heroin had a mate go to prison and on his day of release did the same amount of heroin he used to on the outside. Shame to say he is no longer with us OD on day the day he got out
 
thats the ONE HUGE MISTAKE people CONSISTENTLY DO! they will QUIT, go AWAY, or just not use for an extended period of time. once they get out, have drugs available again, or "slip-up", they use what/where they once left off and DROP!

PEOPLE - ALWAYS USE LESS.. VERY SMALL.. you can always use more, but you can never use less!

people in Boston right now are dropping like nuts; worries the fuck outta me.
 
Are your friends young? Often with younger people, they have this glorified notion of being a "junky" and heroin. To the point where, they think being strung out and dependent is cool and "hard". So they will literally tell people how strung out they are, when they aren't, and pretend to be dependent. When I was younger, a lot of kids did this. I did it too when I was like 13. I thought being a heroin addict was just so cool and posh, so I would tell people I was all strung out and shit and dope sick when I wasn't.

But, once it actually happens, and you feel the withdrawals for real, and realize your fiction and glorification of being a "junky" has become a reality... it's not so fun anymore and you regret making light of it, and foolishly wanting to be a raging heroin addict because it's cool to be strung out.

If I had to guess, this is what is happening with your friends, because from what you said their usage is.. it is nowhere near enough to actually pick up a dependency, let alone a bad one. I think they are turning it on because they are naive and foolishly think it is cool to be dope sick.

It's the curse of youth. Everyone is a dumb ass when they're young. They'll regret ever coming near that shit once their fiction actually becomes a reality.
 
^^ using dope at 13, huh!? jesus, man. if you dont mind me asking.. how old are you now!? I didnt get into the dope scene until my mid 20's. I was using opiates at 16 but I am talking perc 5's. my best friends brother was a dope fiend as we grew up and we always knew about it but we saw him strung out, struggling, etc, so it scared us away. but sure enough, we eventually ended up using ourselves. all my friends called it quits somehow.. but here I am still going and TRYING to call it quits.
 
^^

I am 25 now. Yeah I started very young. Like I said, I thought it was cool and that I was just so bad ass. I got in with the wrong crowd, guys much older than me, and went from weed, booze, pills, etc, to heroin. Ended up in rehab for the first time at 14. So I know all to well how youthful rebellion and idiocy can impact you.

Really bums me out when I see kids doing the exact same thing I did, with the same skewed view of drugs and life, and what's cool and what isn't.
 
wow, 25, huh!? was under the impression you were older than that. youre still a young gun, man! glad you HALFWAY smartened up now, right? still on the done, right? whats your plan to kick that? it's the one thing I DONT WANT because everyone tells me its harder to kick than the dope itself; we'll see, tho.
 
Yeah I am still on methadone. I am tapering down with that, gonna use Kratom and etizolam to help when I hop off at around 2.5mg's.

A lot of the stories about methadone are grossly exaggerated. Horror stories, that's all. I mean, yeah it can be brutal, but most of those really bad stories you hear are from people not using it right. Hopping off at a really high dose, not tapering right, staying on it too long, etc.

If you use it right, don't chase a high and keep upping your dose, taper correctly, it is actually really good. It's still to this day, the most successful opiate addiction therapy that exists according to studies. It's been around a long time and helped a lot of people.
 
Oh damn Scaggs, I thought you were way older than me for sure. I'm 32 lol. You SOUND majorly older due to the experiences and knowledge you possess and expound on the board here.

Well done if you can get that monkey off your back! Best of luck, we'll be rooting for you, man.

<3
 
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