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Thread: oxy withdrawals, kratom

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    oxy withdrawals, kratom 
    #1
    hi im 5 days clean from opiates... i took 30mg a day at the most for eight years. ive started taking kratom for help with withdrawls. i would be very greatful to hear from someone whos used it. and also a lil insight on how i should be feeling right now. need help and need my life back.
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    #2
    Kratom is a wonderful withdrawal aid. It is physically addictive in its own right, albeit much more safely and pleasantly than opiates IMO. My strong recommendation is that people utilize it for a short taper, much in the same way they would suboxone, IE - find a dose that helps then cut it by 10 - 20% a day and just let your body re-establish some stasis while coming off. Know you are NOT five days out of opiate use. You are 5 days out of OXYCODONE use, which is good, and should make you proud, but never let yourself fall into the thinking trap that you're NOT using opiates. Kratom is an opiate(albeit one with a tryptamine backbone) with a similar potency to hydrocodone at sufficient doses. Also, it's mixed agonist/antagonist profile make it good for tapering. I myself fell into the trap, and now eat 12g kratom a day. I am incredibly thankful as it probably saved my life, got me to quit drinking and smoking cigarettes - so, silver linings. I am currently trying to quit the kratom - which can be difficult in its own right due to the dopaminergic effects of kratom. It is also worth noting that a SMALL number of kratom users report it being harder to quit than even traditional opiates. I tend to harbor the opinion that most of these people have not had a serious opiate habit, tho some report such in the forums. Anyhow, hope this information helps, PM me if you have more questions.
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    #3
    thank you for responding to my thread.i dont know how to pm. should i
    start tapering kratom now. i only take about 6 grams of bali all day. i just dont really know what to expect of my opiate withdrawals. they should be about over right? the physical ones i mean.
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    #4
    I take 3 grams mornining, 3 grams later in the day for withdrawal aid. Depending on the quality of kratom, you may want to take more or less , but 3g seems to be the sweet spot for most regular leaf material. Lower quality stuff may need a couple extra grams. Take it on empty stomach when you can. Your opiate withdrawals won't be over if you've been taking kratom. It's a mere substitute to your oxy. You would need to give your receptors a complete break from everything for 3-5 days. It's hard to say wether or not switching to kratom actually helps to lessen withdrawal when you decide to go through it. I haven't touched an oxy in a long time, but if I stop my daily kratom, I will feel full on oxy withdrawals that I never gave a chance to leave my body. You gotta go through a little pain to get yourself over it. Just how the game works unfortunately.
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    #5
    it isn't the the oxy withdrawals "haven't left" it's that you're still using an opiate. If you used hydrocodone in the same manner, you would have to withdrawal from the hydrocodone at some point too. If 6g bali a day is holding you, you're in good shape, that really isn't very much and i'm honestly surprised - either your habit isn't as entrenched as it could be, or your kratom is of VERY high quality. Hopefully the former. Simply start tapering it, i'd try dropping by a gram a day until it becomes painful, then hold there(or at a slightly higher dose) until you're adjusted, then resume dropping. It's much easier to taper kratom due to the volume of material - but as a word of warning, I'm still trying to do it myself I keep having life stress and popping back up to 14g a day, now i'm addicted to the adrenal effects of kratom as well. I like it better, and am happy and healthy so i'm cool with it, but getting off it is a bitch as well. Taper, do it quickly and you'll thank yourself later.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by shanlin View Post
    hi im 5 days clean from opiates... i took 30mg a day at the most for eight years. ive started taking kratom for help with withdrawls. i would be very greatful to hear from someone whos used it. and also a lil insight on how i should be feeling right now. need help and need my life back.
    Hydrocodone and Oxycodone here. Only two years, but often surpassing 60mg, sometimes 70mg and with both drugs combined fairly often. Haven't had opiates in seven months, maintaining on Kratom currently without the intention to stop as it helps with what I'm pretty sure is fibromyalgia pain, though I could stop if I needed to with a 3-4 month slow taper. Withdrawal effects are lesser than hydrocodone so even that length isn't completely necessary, it's just so that you don't have any additional discomfort. For someone who has been taking it for eight years, I'd recommend a 6-8 month long taper. Worked for a friend of mine getting off 80mg Oxycodone daily for nine years.

    Cdin is right with his point however incorrect with his terminology: Kratom is an opioid, not an opiate which refers specifically to that which comes from the poppy, but that's not the point. You are still taking something that binds to those receptors, however you are taking something that's MUCH easier to handle. Kratom is great. It's legal in most places, it's affordable (in bulk), it can be used for pain, for recreational purposes with some people and of course for withdrawal assistance - one of its biggest group of consumers are people in the same situation that you are in. I have seen people maintaining on Methadone that were able to get off it using Kratom, which is fucking crazy if you know how difficult it can be to get off Methadone. It's sort of the alpha maintenance drug. If you're not looking to try and get past the last step of being completely free of opioids, just a small amount of Kratom in the morning a day will stop withdrawal symptoms. Has worked with literally everyone I know using it for that purpose, which will give you your life back provided you don't have any still existing MENTAL addiction symptoms. If you're looking to get off all opioids, you can get off Kratom and it will be easier than tapering from oxycodone, but you will still need to work at it and you will still feel on edge with a taper - there's no escaping that, but it's thankfully nowhere near as harsh. Approximately two months ago, I did a quick (15 day) taper from Kratom and didn't take any for a week and a half afterwards. I was in a bit of pain for the first few days after it all cleared out of my system, little bit of pins and needles, hard to sleep. That continued for maybe three days at most and then it was just somewhat of an achy feeling for about five or six more days that became less prominent as time went by. Increased insomnia (because I already have insomnia) continued for a bit longer but also lessened. I went back on it after that because as I stated, I feel it helps me a lot and it is my chosen alternative to something like oxycodone for dealing with pain. However, my main point is scale that with how long you took oxycodone: if you did a fast taper, you may feel like shit for maybe a month or two and it won't be as bad. If you did a slow taper, you might feel kind of uneasy for a while but that's about it.

    Basically, it's just a situation where you pick whether or not you want to get it over with an a couple of months and possibly feel awful or feel just a bit shitty for many months and avoid being full on sick.

    Good luck with everything, man. Hope this information is helpful.
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    #7
    thank you everyone.. i am a lil discouraged now because i wasnt expecting bad withdrawals from kratom. i guess ill try tappering down from it as well now. kratom is so odd... so many people say so many different things about it. good and bad.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shanlin View Post
    thank you everyone.. i am a lil discouraged now because i wasnt expecting bad withdrawals from kratom. i guess ill try tappering down from it as well now. kratom is so odd... so many people say so many different things about it. good and bad.
    Cdin said "it's just how the game works, unfortunately" and that's just the fact of the matter. I mean, it really depends on what is "bad" to you. In my experience I can honestly say that Kratom is easier. Comparable to tapering off something like oxycodone, it's not as bad. It still will have a withdrawal though. It's kind of like getting punched in the face with brass knuckles vs. getting punched in the face with a bare fist - both are unpleasant to say the least, but one is not as bad. Not the best analogy but it gets the point across. I would suggest a taper, see how that works for you. Isn't going to be that bad if done right. As for everyone else, drugs are all subjective experiences. Some people get really, really different feelings than others from certain things. In this case though, those receptors are being bound to and that's just that, scientifically.
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    #9
    thanks again... this is the only forum ive gotten help from... im very greatful thank you... also im having bad anxiety, i suffer from it anyways, is there anything to help that? thats really my main withdrawal right now
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    #10
    Seriously, i am not saying this to belittle you in any way, but take some time to read up on the spectrum of withdrawal symptoms, and ask yourself what "bad" is. Anxiety is unpleasant, it can be crippling - i don't know your particular situation - but traditional opiate(And sorry for confusing my iates and ioids) withdrawal is somewhere between a terrible flu and the worst food poisoning ever with a touch of a clinical psych ward anxiety attack. I have beat the wall til my knuckles were bloody in an attempt to distract from the pain coursing through my body between projectile vomiting and shitting. Anxiety is bad, and has degrees of symptoms, but if that is your WORST symptom re opiate/oid withdrawal you are VERY very lucky. Also, if you find it unbearable, please strongly consider NOT using harder opiates/oids, benzos or other physically addicting substances to treat your mental symptoms. Kratom is a walk in the park compared to nearly anything else except maybe kava kava or marijuana you might take for anxiety. In fact, i strongly recommend those
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    #11
    Kratos is great for withdrawal as well as just a general mood enhancer. When it comes to withdraw from Kratom, I know it sounds weird but I found that certain strains are worse than others when it comes to this. For instance, I find Maeng Da to give more withdrawals that Green Malay which I am taking now. Try out different ones and tapper down. Regardless it's a hell a lot better than hydrocodone withdraw.
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    #12
    thank you... i only take bali, 6 grams a day. yes i know all to well of anxiety, and panic attacks long before i ever took oxys.. i was on paxil and xanax for years.. it just seems worse now... i have tried quitting oxys before cold turkey so yes i know that hell, i guess thats why im a lil affraid of the kratom withdrawals. im going to start cutting back on the kratom. ive been on it for a week and a half now. and only take 1 to 1.5 grams at a time. melatonin to sleep.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cdin View Post
    withdrawal is somewhere between a terrible flu and the worst food poisoning ever with a touch of a clinical psych ward anxiety attack. I have beat the wall til my knuckles were bloody in an attempt to distract from the pain coursing through my body between projectile vomiting and shitting.
    This. This is what it's like to go cold turkey. To be honest, having felt it at times it does really let up quickly. Day 5 is usually when people start feeling it the worst, when your system is all out. By day 10 the symptoms typically have decreased by half (consensus is that the bulk majority of it is over after about two weeks, by that I mean the consistent flu, aches, shitting, vomiting, pins and needles, atrocious insomnia...it ramps down to more just anxiety and sweating once you get that far, which is extremely fortunate when you compare it to benzo withdrawal which literally can last six+ months for some people and can kill them) but it's in that period of time, those five WORST days, that people are tempted to take more and end it all.

    Though since you're using kratom, you don't really have to worry about that (coming off oxy, at least). You'll skip over all of those two week symptoms to just anxiety and sweating, a bit of difficulty sleeping...you can use Kava like cdin said or perhaps valium (just not for more than two or three weeks) or ambien (but not for more than a month or so) to calm yourself down. Marijuana was suggested...MAYBE, but if someone were to try that, I would say take a VERY small hit at first. Weed has a notorious reputation for making you feel even more anxious if you already are having anxiety with a lot of people. That's part of the whole "it enhances x" thing. As for when you finally stop with the Kratom taper, your symptoms may range from mild to moderate, but in the worst case scenario I can tell you that Kratom's withdrawal is like this: hydrocodone (which itself is not a tremendous withdrawal), cut in half in terms of intensity, far less prone to pins and needles, chills, etc. though you will still vomit and shit and whatnot but it seriously will just feel like a typical flu. Just get in your bed and watch movies or something and make sure to stay hydrated if you're vomiting a lot. Kratom is by far the easiest withdrawal to deal with, and I concur with cdin that (at least with a taper) it's a walk in the park compared to the others. If you compare getting off Kratom to getting off Methadone or Suboxone, it's fucking ridiculous the differences in severity. One more thing: I agree with the guy who said certain strains are easier to get off of as well. Though I personally find Maeng Da lighter than others, the easiest by far from what I've read seems to be Red Vein Thai or Bali, which you have the latter so yeah.

    Again, best of luck.
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    #14
    thank you... so is anyone on here comming off an addiction like mine? -the last month of oxy use i was only at 15 mgs a day. a 15mg pill broken into 4 pieces throughout the day and i was fine on this dose. will that be helping me now
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    #15
    I was a longtime sub user who decided to quit with Kratom. Fucking godsend man. I've kicked the dependency while still using Kratom to self medicate a few times a week . I might be a unique case but I found the Kratom withdrawals to be really easy to manage to the point where even with tons in my house I use two or three times a week and take weeks off at a time no issue. Just try it yourself cut a gram of each dose and see how you do.
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    #16
    My personal opinion: your oxy usage was long, but low - this is a VERY good thing. You are most likely VERY psychologically dependant, and moderately physically. Your kratom usage is really very low - I got off using pills entirely - although my usage pattern was more like 200mg oxy 3x weekly. I currently use RVB(Red Vein Borneo) @ 4.5g x 2, and am working hard to taper myself out of it. Any w/d will suck, but just stick with the krat - it will take about a week and a half for the switch over to be comfortable, then just taper as much as possible without tooo much pain. It won't be that bad, kratom withdrawals are MOSTLY mental, I find - i'm sitting here right now, don't feel bad, but dammit i've got work to do - with opiates i wouldnt even be CONTEMPLATING whether or NOT to dose I suggest acquiring a source of harmala alkaloids - they are IME the best thing for krat withdrawals. Syrian Rue is potent and cheap - but caapi is what i take and i can't speak to the Rue experience. I'd suggest phenibut, but due to your underlying anxiety issues i STRONGLY recommend against it. It is extremely physically addictive, though does help kratom withdrawals.
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    #17
    ya i never let myself go overboard with them. and honestly the only reason i kept taking them was to feel normal, not get high. i would only take just enough to keep withdrawals away, not because i liked them anymore. and the only reason i started taking them was because they were there, free, and fun... they are the worst thing to ever start taking... i dont miss how they used to make me feel. i miss just feeling normal.
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    #18
    thanks again for all the info and support. ive only taken 2 grams of bali since 6 am this morning and i feel good. just wish all of this wasnt so scary.
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    #19
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    I wonder how much a 1/2 kilo of kratom costs? For you. I have my current supplier and the price is decent. Maybe we are not allowed to discuss price?
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