Tianeptine- 0.030g/2x - Opioid Dependent, First Time Use - Add it to The Arsenal

[Flaga121]

This is NOT a thread about SSRE abuse, rather about the use of this medication to treat opioid withdrawal and associated discomfort.

My Drug Use Profile

Last 12 Mo: Dependent on 1mg/day Suboxone.

Last Mo: Semi-Dependent on 3.5grams/2-3x a day Kratom

Now: Alternating between 2 doses of 3.5 grams Kratom and comfort medication to test effectiveness. I have gone cold turkey enough to verify my withdrawal profile, and ensure it was severe enough to test comfort medication on.



Dosing: 1 30mg Dose 1 hour after waking up, on empty stomach, One dose 4-6 hours later as needed.

Dosing before bed prevents sleep, an issue when used therapeutically as well by looking at common side effects. \

T0 - Im tired, didn't sleep because I skipped my nighttime dose. I'm yawning constantly, feel lethargic, anhedonia prevents me from even wanting to turn my TV on. Physically I feel random aches and pains I know are more psychological then real.

T1 - I'm awake, more so then i should be given my lack of sleep. Yawning has stopped completely, best sign I am not in w/d. Anhedonia remains, still don't want to do anything including typing this. Random aches are worse, legs are *almost* restless, as in I feel the pins and needles without the cramping.

T2- Awake, with energy. No Yawning. Working on some client write ups that I've been avoiding (a client I care about made some very bad mistakes, and I'm not sure whats next for them). I'm alert and my emotions have normalized. Random aches are gone, legs are good to go.

T3- Same as T2

T4- Same as above, some mild w/d returning (yawning, anhedonia).

T5- W/d is back, but it's not early AM so it's much more mild. About to take another dose of Tian.

I'll edit this as I continue the experiment.

T2 (2nd dose) - Yawning is the only associated discomfort currently apparent, much lighter then normal.

T4 Feeling good, normal amount of tired considering my lack of sleep.

 

[Flaga121]

Changed my mind about a bedtime dose because my mind is really tired. Been a few nights since I've taken a night time dose of Kratom and got any real sleep. I could cave and take Kratom, but then it won't feel nearly as good on Tuesday when I jump back on the Kratom train. So I'm going with another idea that allows me to continue to use myself as a case study in opioid w/d aids.

15mg Tian
600mg Phenibut - This has two uses, it might help me sleep, but if I don't sleep at least i'll feel decent while I don't sleep. 15mg of Tian takes the physical issues away, and some of the depression/anhedonia when your occupied, but at night it doesn't touch the anxiety (my real first time trying Tian was last night, but I used very little just to see how I'd react, boring stuff, not that this is more interesting unless your w/d from a low dose opioid habit.)

A Few Hours Later - Went out and did some longboarding on flat ground (Not quite as young as I once was, can't be bombing major hills anymore, but its amazing cardio on flat ground, and is easier on the knees then running/jogging). I feel amazing. The only thing that has me truly perplexed is an itchiness all over my body as if I took some Kratom or another opi. I can't imagine it's histamine, just doesn't feel the type nor present with rash/redness/irritation. Could be the Tian but I didn't read anything about itching.

Wonder If I'll be able to sleep tonight. But often helps 100%, but thats on doses above a gram.

I'm not 100% comfortable with the Tian at the moment, given all the mystery surrounding its MOA, so I'll not be taking it tomorrow. To happily and comfortably hit the 72 hour mark where I fit Kratom tolerance goes back to a persons "base line" (not their honeymoon low, more of a "real" base line one finds after a few weeks of regular dosing) I'll be using Phenibut by itself.

As a side note, Phenibut works for Kratom w/d almost 100% for me. It does almost nothing for stronger opiate or opioid w/d but with Kratom its a wonder drug. The w/d from Phenibut scares me more then Kratom so I view it as a way to enjoyably break from Kratom for 2 days (well one is fun, one is shitty). Take the But 3-4 hours before bed the first night, I go 600mg. Then when you wake up you'll still have a bunch in your system. Redose at 1 gram. Another 600mg-1gram that night and w/d won't return for (at earliest) 24 hours, sometimes not for a full 48. YMMV, but this is what I've found.



PS: Oh shit. Forgot I ate a few potent Cannabis edibles before. Might be part of the reason I feel like I'm glowing. This is why I love Kratom, at least when I use "comfort meds" while in w/d I get a good glow going. When I was using opiates and Bupe the w/d was so horrid that nothing, not even strong benzos, put a dent in it.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah phenibut is good stuff, it's hard to dose right but if you do, man, it's nice. I also found it to work really well for kratom withdrawal, I actually came off kratom entirely once with it, just took phenibut each day. As you mentioned though, you need to be careful with phenibut because it has a pretty nasty withdrawal if you do it too much for too long.

 

[Flaga121]

Yea But slays Kratom withdrawals but the trade may not be worth it At all. Great for tolerance management.

 

[Flaga121]

Taring mistake on my mg scale caused me to take .05 this mourning, which I'm not happy about. But, I feel great, and it got me out of my chair and doing things. Just wanted to keep updating this report to reflect the effectiveness of treating Kratom w/d.

I took several doses of Kratom yesterday, which assured I'd wake up with less then no energy because the w/d gets stronger the day after a high dose (for me). I was tired, RLS, mild aches (.5 on a pain scale, back, legs, knees), mostly anhedonia.

30mins after the dose I felt renewed, with mild opioid itching....which still strikes me as odd.

Took a massive dab, and it feels like the initial rush has lingered as a high all its own. Didn't notice synergy with Cannabis oil last time.

 

[phillipposiii]

Hi all--

This is my first post to an actual thread, so if I make a faux pas, please let me know.

I've been researching tianeptine lately. At first looking for nootropics, but more and more I am thinking that it may be a useful tool in getting myself away from a lot of the drugs I have abused, as well as for treating my often debilitating depression and anxiety.

Anyway, the reason I am replying: I just an hour ago found a lab report that appears to more or less conclusively demonstrate the primary MOA of tianeptine. According to the findings, it is a full mew opioid agonist, with a much less potent but also fully agonizing effect on delta receptors. The researchers compared mouse and human receptors of all the major varieties and discovered that the mew and delta receptors were the only ones they had an appreciable interaction with. In humans the ratio of potency mew to delta is 200:1. This would also suggest an explanation for the "SSRE" description of tianeptine's action, since opioids almost universally exert an indirect enhancement of the serotonin system, which is partially responsible for the all-consuming gooey carelessness they induce.

Here's the link: http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n7/full/tp201430a.html: "The atypical antidepressant and neurorestorative agent tianeptine is a μ-opioid receptor agonist", Gassaway, Rives, Kruegel, Javitch, Sames.

I'd love to hear if anyone has an alternative understanding of this (I am not a trained psychopharmacologist.....).

This knowledge does me for me, though, that I will need to weigh my doses out and then give the pills to someone else to dispense everyday. I am thankful though that this substance is available and affordable, since it seems like it can benefit a lot of people without the specter of the nasty side effects of the SSRIs and some of the other tricyclics.

Thank you all for using the forum! I have benefitted from reading here for a decade, so I hope I can give back.

Cheers!