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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

3,4-Dichloromethylphenidate - very experienced - the methadone of stims

RobotRipping

Bluelighter
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Jan 18, 2011
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active at 10-20mg nasally 8-10 hours of stimulation more peripheral in nature than amphetamines; quite a bit stronger than ritalin but feels similar.

i am a full on stim addict; cannot and have not gone without them for well over a year. I ran out of this stuff a few weeks ago and not even 180mg of d-amp plugged could touch the withdrawals, yet 20mg up the nose of 34ctmp and i was back to myself. it is not a euphoric stim really, but you do get spun. You don't end up on 5 day runs hallucinating either, you eventually just pass out. I have been using it daily with no ill consequences (other than being spun) for a few months now. I would never go back to plugging d-amp or messing with any other stim. This feels like a maintenance drug for me. It can cause anxiety though but i'm also an etizolam addict so i don't really notice.

basically be careful what u get yourself into with this one cause if u withdraw, nothing is going to take the lethargy away. Note: this drug also tends to cause confusion in the same way ethylphenidate can at higher doses. I take probably 60mg/day.
 
My comment is only tangetially related, but I have always wanted to try 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine and 3,4,5-trichloroamphetamine. People say they're neurotoxic, but so are alcohol and MDMA.

Would you say that you are addicted to 3,4-DCMPH?
 
People say they're neurotoxic, but so are alcohol and MDMA.

This is not good logic. When people speculate that they'd be neurotoxic, they're talking about something more severe.

ebola
 
More severe neurotoxicity based on what? A long running internet rumor? Fear mongering speculation?

According to www.ecstasydata.org, as of March 14, 2014, 4-chloroamphetamine pressed pills have arrived on the scene in Canada, and we've yet to here of any MPTP type tragedies. Aromatic chlorines abound in the US pharmacopeia. Most neurologically psychoactive amphetamines--phenyl subsituted or not, with the exception of PM(M)A and possibly MTA--are expected to a bit neurotoxic I would think, just not very.

As an experienced drug user, wouldn't you agree that MDMA's neurotoxicity has been subject to extreme hyperbole in the government funded scientific literature? What makes you think that this case is any different? And what of 2C-C and DOC? 3,4-DCMPH? Claritin? Wellbutrin? Ketamine? Thorazine? Benzodiazepines? Why don't they count in your estimation? Imagine where our prescribers would be without the almighty Ar-Cl group.

There's a big difference between clinically significant neurotoxicity and Luddite fear mongering--not accusing you of being a Luddite, but rather, just saying.
 
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PCA is a potent serotonergic neurotoxin used to cull cells in animal experiments. Data show that this has something to do with formation of toxic metabolites, not just the usual processes that make all combined DA/5ht release neurotoxic. No, the consequences aren't as dramatic as with MPTP (indeed, the compound was used as an anti-depressant briefly, and patients didn't notice anything immediately). There is reason to expect that the dichloro analogue would form similarly toxic metabolites.


As an experienced drug user, wouldn't you agree that MDMA's neurotoxicity has been subject to extreme hyperbole in the government funded scientific literature?

In the scientific literature? No. Here, toxicity is defined strictly quantitatively, as are the conditions used to induce it. There have been dubious interpretations made of this literature though. PCA has been shown to be way more toxic than MDMA.

And what of 2C-C and DOC? 3,4-DCMPH? Claritin? Wellbutrin? Ketamine? Thorazine? Benzodiazepines? Why don't they count in your estimation?

Jesus. I'm not saying that "chlorine substitutions are neurotoxic". Rather, it's with this particular moiety, for this particular class of compounds.

ebola
 
Ok, that's all fine and good, but I am waiting more on the clinical 'trip reports' before making a judgement one way or another.
 
You'd place more faith in the "clinical" subjective trip reports than actual measurable science?? PCA is used as a marker for serotonergic toxicity. IIRC there were lower levels of 5HIAA in the poor rats for over 6 months, vs a matter of hours for PFA...

PCA is a potent neurotoxin, orders of magnitude stronger than MDMA, and it's emergence in "party pills" was quite possibly the stupidest move the "RC industry" has made yet, up there with fentanyl analogs.

I don't understand your logic, or lack thereof, at all....

You cant extrapolate the effects of para- chlorination on completely different classes of chemicals...
 
Lots of drugs are neurotoxic but people still do them all the time because they don't have obvious side effects or the pleasure they get from them outweighs their side effects. I'm not saying PCA isn't neurotoxic, but if there's no way to tell that except by measuring levels of 5-hydroxyindole acetic acid in the spinal fluid then who cares.

Again, I'm not saying PCA is not dangerous. I'm saying I don't know until someone inevitably takes it and reports back. From what I understand, PCA is probably neurotoxic in the same way as MDMA, and people take MDMA all the time and have been for years with only subtle negative sequelae.

If your mind is already made up that halogenated amphetamines are the next devil's drug, then so be it. I personally don't know enough about their effects to have made up my mind yet, as I obviously distrust the scientific papers due to their past relentless categorization of MDMA as a potent neurotoxin, which is laughable.
 
Again, I'm not saying PCA is not dangerous. I'm saying I don't know until someone inevitably takes it and reports back. From what I understand, PCA is probably neurotoxic in the same way as MDMA, and people take MDMA all the time and have been for years with only subtle negative sequela.

Subjective reports are not a reliable way to monitor neurotoxicity. Studies have found PCA drammatically more neurotoxic than MDMA.

ebola
 
Yes, but subjective reports are a great way to measure side effects.
 
Pardon me, but do some reading on the subject please. This could actually be a discussion if you had half an inkling as to what you are talking about. Hell, 1% of an inkling...
 
IIRC PCA is neurotoxic at 4 mg/kg, MDMA at 20 mg/kg, and MDA at 10 mg/kg.

So a 100 kg person could theoretically take up to 400 mg of PCA before neurotoxicity sets in. 100 mg should be plenty.

My conclusion: Certainly treat PCA with respect, but you don't need to film the next Reefer Madness over it, either.

Am I wrong?
 
I have no idea how you came up with these specific numbers. How is "neurotoxicity" operationalized in this comparison?

ebola
 
Do a search for "pca" and then click on the thread with "WARNING: Diablo XXX...etc."

Scroll down to atara's post. It states that MDMA is usually considered to be toxic in rats at around 20 mg/kg, whereas PCA is 2.5 mg/kg. (which means 250 mg, not 400 mg, for a 100 kg person, my bad)

How he arrived at these figures I have no idea.

* * *

EDIT: PCA is neurotoxic at or below 2.5 mg/kg. Here's the link:

www.sciencemag.org/content/187/4179/841.short

I apologize. Best to avoid PCA altogether!
 
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^in rats! so although it gives an indictaor it doesn't mean that figure is accurate for humans

FFS

also what mdma does to rats is different from humans because they have a vastly higher metabolism!



mdma has a different effect in humans and so will pca

either way i would avoid pca and limit mdma to once or twice a year at most
 
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47 year old male, 5.9 155lbs, insulin dependant diabetic 25 years, ADHD, PTSD, hypothyroidism. Prescribed: Insulin, Prozac, Ritalin both IR & SR, Wellbutrin, Synthroid, Altace, Lipitor, Aspirin, Clonidine, Clonazepam, Imovane.
Experiences with: LSD, Mushrooms, Cannabis, Cocaine (IV use), MDMA & several different Amphetamines (IV use), Ketamine (IV use), several different Opiates (IV use), Benzodiazepines, Barbiturates (minimal), Alcohol (minimal)
Experiences with 500mg Dichloromethylpenidate, methyl (2R)-2-(3,4-dichlorophenyl)-2-[(2R)-piperidin-2-yl)acetate, 3,4-CTMP HCI, CAS: 1400742-68-8 (FB) Purchased at a very reputable vendor, whom I've ordered from several times.
Very fine white powder almost identical to icing sugar.
1st dose 4:00pm – 5mg
2nd dose 5:00pm – 5mg – No noticeable effects
3rd dose 6:00pm – 10 – 15mg No noticeable effects
7:00pm Substance has an extremely slow onset. At or about the 3rd or 4th hour I started to feel the effects very similar to coke somewhat mild, but unmistakable. Also felt anticipation of further onset of the drug IE I knew it was going to be an interesting trip. It was so slow that it was barely noticeable but then you would clue into the fact that you were doing all kinds of crap you would normally do on ritalin and that you felt like you were on coke. But by the time of full onset you feel awesome.
The 1st and foremost thing I experienced was extreme focus. I sat and typed for about 4 hours without moving a muscle, by the time I moved out of that position I could barely get my limbs to move and it hurt !
The 2nd most prominent effect was not using other substance and not even having the desire to use any other drug. I am a chronic pot smoker and poly drug user. So ive constantly got pot on the go and 1 or 2 other various drugs on the go simultaneously. Well this behavior abruptly ended when this drug took effect and I stopped doing this for the duration while I was under the influence of this drug.
3rd was my appreciation for music. It was almost orgasmic to lay back eyes closed and listen. Just awesome !
4th Time warping, you could go to work on an assembly line putting 2 pieces of what ever together for 12 hours and it would feel like 45min. I literally lost my perception of time passage. If I were to stop and think about it I would be able to guesstimate fairly accurately how much time went by, but it would blow my mind when I did. It was incredible how fast time went by.
5th competence and confidence I was able to carry out any task from fixing the computer to dealing with buroxity or engaging in intellectual discussions to meditation, anything. And I knew or believed I could
I was awake all that day and all the next day until the morning of the 3rd day and I am almost positive the 20 – 25mg I did kept me awake that long. I would say the 1st initial dose lasted 16 – 20 hours !
On the 3rd day I got some prescriptions for methylphenidate delivered so I was interested in that and gave a friend a bit of the dichloromethylphenidate who is extremely experienced. I explained what it was, what it does, recommended dose, my dose, how powerful it was, ect, ect. So he decides to IV it. So he did and was fine, he loved it, he got high as kite and said there were virtually no negative effects. He didn't get a huge rush but rather a gentle but powerful rise. It was smooth and clean and he said he could tell it was very pure. He is 6”tall and about 200lbs 39 years old. Long term opiate abuser on methadone.
So I gave it a go to and it was one of the best substances I've ever IV. It was almost identical to coke but really pure coke and it was much smoother than coke too, you kind of just slid up and it lasted forever and didn't have a “crash” you just slid back down. All of the effects I mentioned above were just magnified.
Another friend came over. A very experienced drug user. Female, 5’7, 130 lbs, 47 years old. Did every drug under the sun ! So she gave it a go to and surprise, surprise just loved it. When I described it as slow release coke she said I was dead on. Her and I did the majority of it over a few days.
I didn’t IV too much it was really keeping me awake and I also discovered it was great sublingual, it hit really hard and fast if you just put some on your tongue. She continued to bang it.
The 1st guy that IV was still awake the next day from the previous days couple of doses, not a fan of insomnia and rather downers mostly. He was taking shit to knock himself out to no avail. I have an extreme tolerance to insomnia I can do a week awake on my head. The girlfriend wasn't sleeping either but didn’t care. She used the majority of it and just loved it.
In the end I stayed up for 6 days and there was no coming down unless I stopped it altogether. I was also taking 2 other kinds of methylphenidate and bupropion.
So you can IV use it. Oral is very effective roa. Snorting is not very good at all. The only real serious negative effects from re-dosing or large dosages were insomnia. There seems to be little chance of overdosing, the dose increases and doses we were doing were very substantial compared to the generally accepted “normal” dose of 2 – 5mg but we all involved have very high tolerance. Negative effects do not increase with dose and the comedown doesn't get worse with dose increases. If you can’t handle insomnia then don’t re-dose.
After about a week I did a small dose one day at about 4:00pm. I was extremely high all that night and at about 4:00am I took 2 - 0.2mg clonidine and 2 gravol which had obliterated me the previous night had absolutely no effect. This is the most powerful insomnia causing drugs I've ever seen. It also keeps you awake while making you not realize the amount of time going by and you don’t feel the effects of the insomnia nor do you feel the jagged nerves or shakes or paranoia usually characterized by most amphetamines. It’s very deceptive and attractive. I don’t recommend this substance unless you are a true speed freak or have an illness needing stimulant treatment.
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