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AMT and Saint John's Wort

Z

zeke51

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
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2
Hi guys, I have been reading this forum for a few years and finally decided to make an account! :-D

I have been searching the internet and found little info on this combination and I was just wandering whether anyone has any experience with AMT and Saint john's Wort? Especially say, 1-2 days abstinence of the SJW, and then a mild-moderate (say 30mg AMT Freebase) trip?

What are people's opinions on the safety of this, do you think the tripper is likely to be ok?

Cheers, :)
Zeke
 
aMT is an SRA (Serotonin Releasing Agent), and St. Johns Wort is a MAOI, so I don't think it's an advisable combination.

Here's two quick cut and pastes from wilki

αET and αMT are serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine releasing agents which were formerly used as antidepressants in Russia. They are now encountered solely as recreational drugs similarly to the MDxx series.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_releasing_agent

MAOIs should not be combined with other psychoactive substances (antidepressants, painkillers, stimulants, both legal and illegal etc.) except under expert care. Certain combinations can cause lethal reactions, common examples including SSRIs, tricyclics, MDMA, meperidine,[30] tramadol, and dextromethorphan.[citation needed] Agents with actions on epinephrine, norepinephrine, or dopamine must be administered at much lower doses due to potentiation and prolonged effect.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor
 
I'm not sure how powerful an MAOI it is tho - my guess is you'd need to almost the entire worlds supply to activate a dose of DMT.

Certainly not something I'd recomend combining tho.
 
Thanks for your answers.
I do understand that the combination of an MAOI/SSRI and a serotonin releasing agent could cause serotonin syndrome, but thanks for pointing it out. I have taken AMT before and I have also taken MDMA combined with SJW with no adverse effects. I also plan to wait 48 Hours after the last dose of SJW before taking the AMT. I was also wandering whether anyone had done this to see if it has had any effects on their trips?
 
I found this from erowid:

Although early analysis indicated that St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum) is a MAOI, more recent research has shown this action to be extremely weak, and the herb's antidepressant effects can not be attributed to MAO inhibition. There have been no reported "adverse MAOI effects" from the combination of St. John's Wort with any of the foods or drugs commonly contraindicated when taking a MAOI. However, several chemicals found in St. John's Wort are known to activate five cytochrome P450 enzymes, and the body uses cytochrome P450 enzymes to break down most pharmaceuticals. There is strong evidence that it decreases drug levels in the blood with a number of medications, reducing their effectiveness, among other possible interactions.

St. John's Wort's method of action on mood is still a mystery. It has been shown to increase serotonin levels, but this may be accomplished via a means that is more comparable to tricyclic antidepressants than to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. In any case, several herbal medical texts recommend that people avoid taking St. John's Wort in conjunction with an SSRI, due to concerns about causing serotonin syndrome. For this reason, it seems prudent to also avoid, or be extremely careful when taking, recreational drugs that strongly boost serotonin--such as MDMA, MDA, etc.--while taking St. John's Wort. Thanks for bringing up this important question!
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http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3140
 
St John's Wort (Hypericum Perforatum) is a weak MAOI, I wouldn't expect effects on the level of harmala or deprenyl. Infact I had an occassion in the past where i believe long term use of St John's Wort made my trip less intense, wasn't on AMT, I think it was mushrooms, but the fact I'd been taking St John's Wort was the only cause I could think of.
 
5.5 Grams of some of the strongest Magic Mushrooms i dare say i ever had in my possession + 6 Grams of Saint Johns Wort Extract Kicked my ass.
Emotionally Mentally Spiritually Physically. I was pretty sick for a few days after.
The visual field was so profoundly thick it was hard to find my way from the couch to the kitchen.
Only because incredibly Alien feelings would encompass not only my emotions, but then later on the environment.
I was convinced during the peak i was not doing to come down, so i cuddled my cat for dear life and listened to The Mars Volta.
At one point i knew i was crying and because i was lying down the tears were encompassing the periphery of my head, making me feel as if i was wearing a Aural Halo.
Aztec symbology invaded my vision i shuddered with what i imagine is serotonin sickness with extreme extreme chills incredible dilation of time and a few times I vomited. But like dry heaved excessively.

Great trip, i felt alot of things i will probably never feel again nor do i ever want to feel again. So lets just say if you get the strongest possible St Johns Wort you can find.
You can Seriously inhibit your MAO's...
 
Considering how broadly AMT fucks with synaptic transporters (making it a multiple monoamine reuptake inhibitor), vesicular transporters (making it a multiple monoamine releaser) and also somewhat with MAO - it just does not seem to be safe to combine with a lot of drugs that really affect monoamine levels rather than being mere agonists.
St. John's wort is called mild by some standards and not a full-on SSRI or MAOI - but it still seems to act by increasing levels, which is why I would say this has potentially bad idea written all over it. If not immediately life threatening then still likely to increase side-effects is my expectation.
 
Psychonautical said:
You can Seriously inhibit your MAO's...
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Not sure that was anything to do with it being an MAOI tho psychonaut. I've taken 300mg of moclobemide, which is a vastly more powerful MAOI than johns wort, with mushrooms and had none of the dry heaving stuff or sickness.
 
My ex convinced me to do a gram of shrooms and i did 2 saint johns wort pills because i was used to taking it for a good mood. I think i almost died, (i have almost died before in a hospital so i know the feeling.) I took 2 pills. 4 hour horrid trip/ health crisis. Loss 90% muscle function. Crawled outside into snowstorm, ripped clothes off with incredible effort. I know have utter respect for my body and mind since both did not break. Peed myself. Terror beyond anything you can imagine, would break the devil if he is real. Extreme sweating, seizures, in an out of consciousness, my body felt like it was made of iron, i could not speak through the terror. 4 hours i deep-breathed so my mind would not be broken forever.

Saint Johns wort can interact with serotonin levels. Combine it with psylocibin; which affects serotonin greatly; and your brain's personal chemistry- you are risking a lot. Its not worth it.

I have learned to trip without substance help. If you are combining substances for any reason other than health- slow down.

Research EVERY DRUG AND HERB BEFORE YOU INGEST THEM TOGETHER!
 
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