Hey everyone, first I just wanna say that I've always used bluelight and other forums just as an observer to find really great info and get me through some tough times in the past, but this is the first time I finally joined and am posting a thread.

Anyway, for my question... I was taking oxycodone for a long time on and off, mostly due to medical reasons, though I can't say that I didn't allow myself to get more out of it than was initially intended. This has been on and off for several years. I've withdrawn several times and it was never fun. There have certainly been multi-month periods of pretty much complete sobriety, aside from a few occasional indulgences in some other less harmful/less addictive things, but nothing crazy or what I would consider bad or out of hand.

So in the past year, I discovered Kratom. Oh how I loved this. I figured it was a safer and less addictive substitute for opiates. Well just recently I had surgery again, and haven't yet worked up the will to say "no" to the doc regarding that stuff when offered... so I went back on it. Pretty decent size doses (~20 mg), several times per day, every day for almost a month or so. Now everyone knows once you're addicted to something once, the dependence (physical and psychological), comes back a hell of a lot faster the next time. Well that's exactly what happened. But this time I figured I had a new weapon in my arsenal: Kratom. I had heard of people using this to come off of opiates, so I figured that's what I would do. And that's what I did. I never used extracts, only plain leaf, but strong leaf (Red Kali mostly). I was taking maybe ~8 grams or so usually 3 or 4 times a day after stopping the oxy. I did this for several weeks, about a month, after stopping the oxy. While I still felt the withdrawals from the oxy, it wasn't that bad and I figured now coming off of Kratom would be cake, considering I had done it before a couple times and while it was annoying, it wasn't too too bad. I was always pretty good with Kratom, until I started the pills again.

Well, I lowered my intake to just 2x a day (morning and after work), about 5 grams per dose, of plain Bali powder. I realize all together this equals a pretty big drop off. Well the withdrawals SUCKED and it included a not-so-fabulous panic attack at work that pretty much everyone noticed and almost suicidal depression at one point (the 3rd day). I mean this was BAD. Like just as intense as oxy withdrawal but with more depression thrown in. It's about a week later and I still feel chills, anxiety (probably the worst symptom for me), restlessness, etc. Is this only the kratom withdrawal I'm feeling and me just making too big of a jump? Or is it possible that the kratom was actually "holding in" the oxy withdrawal and is letting it all out now... in other words even if I taper do I still have to expect oxy level withdrawals?

What would be a good taper plan at this point? Has anyone actually done a taper program personally and had it work well? Has anyone gone through Kratom withdrawals both alone and another time after transferring from an opiate habit and seen a big difference? I have some tulsi tea, ashwaghanda and phenibut to help, along with some L-tyrosine which I would take in the morning (which doesn't seem to do much of anything) and tryptophan and melatonin to take at night. And I always take multivitamins and fish oil anyway, and try to eat fruits/veggies whenever I can including a banana every day in the morning. I try to get some exercise when I can, which helps during but afterwards it just goes right back to being crappy again. I just ordered some stem and vein powder to try tapering with but I've never tried it before (it probably won't come until next week). I want to finish tapering but I'm just so scared to have it be as bad as the first jump off. I haven't even recovered from that jump yet and it's a week later. I'm torn between tapering and just jumping off to just be done with it, but... considering I have to maintain myself at work I feel like jumping off probably wouldn't be such a good idea - especially considering what happened the first time... and it doesn't even seem worth it since a week later staying at the same amount (~5 grams 2x per day of Bali/Green Thai) I'm still feeling withdrawals anyway (though not as bad). Even if I stay at this frequency/dose/strain, I've been through withdrawals so many times I can't deal with it anymore. I already made myself an appt at an outpatient program for opiates next week. Any advice for all this? It feels just as hard if not harder than oxy withdrawal.

Sorry long post, thanks in advance everyone.