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Misc How Can We Improve Other Drugs? v. Calling All OD Miscreants

^^

Humm.. Interesting.

Anybody else interested in an opiate specific sub forum? Can we get some pros and cons?

I am.

Pros- more discussion in one place leaving room for other important things not opiate related, likely to be highly trafficked. Cons- of will look a little more bare IMO. I don't have many pros or cons but I think it would be nice.
 
I'm strongly against making an opioid specific sub-sub-forum. OD is what covers opioid discussion and I fail to see how dividing up sections for opioids, meth/amphetamines, cocaine/freebase, dissociatives, tryptamines, phenylalanines, the latest 10 research chemicals to be shat out of that industry, it just becomes one bigger clusterfuck, causing overlap with pre-existing forums, like the psychedelics, etc.

OD is a focus forum, focusing on all drugs not covered by the other focus forums. This model has worked fine for the better part of a decade and moderating further specified subforums would basically mean we'd have to outsource moderating to India, etc. And the last reason that IMO, is reason alone to not segregate OD, is this: Poly Drug Abuse. How many of you use one drug and only that drug, and only post about one specific chemical?

I'd bet those of you who fall into that category, make up a minority of less than 10% of the threads I see, so considering people who use stimulants often use depressant's too, or simultaneously, multiple drug usage is a dominant theme here and it's absolutely critical for poly drug abusers to have one place where they can ask an important question about combinations, what is mixed, what you never mix, what you have to mix using exponentially lower dose ratios, etc.

$0.02
 
Is there a tweaker post mega-thread? It might be interesting to consolidate all of the better tweaked out posts into one thread. (the tweaker post HOF thread)
 
I think adding the IV complications mega-thread to the stickied threads would be a good idea. Nothing major with that, but an improvement nonetheless.
 
I think adding the IV complications mega-thread to the stickied threads would be a good idea. Nothing major with that, but an improvement nonetheless.

pretty sure it's in the sticky mega-thread which contains all other mega-threads..
 
lol, /facepalm

DT'ing off an equivalent of almost 90mg of diazepam has wrecked me.
 
Oh, I'm through the heavy DT part. Been through the heavy DT part. I'm just in the protracted w/d (PAWS) stage. Was Rx'ed 6mg of alprazolam/day (2mg TID - I took q4h) and 4mg estazolam Q-HS. Was inpatient and they decided to drop me to 1/2mg alprazolam TID for three days, 1/4mg TID on day four, and I was out of that hell-hole the night of day four. Was in the ER for delirium tremor coming on while driving the very next day. This was in early february and I'm still fucked up.
 
Never had m'done, but much worse than kicking regular opioids or bupe for sure lmao. I'd much rather puke and shit for a week or two lmao.
 
Im not really for methadone, not because "its hard to get off it", but because how many people ive seen on it that look like zombies and how much drug dealing goes on at clinics. I think Scag said it at 1 point but with any drug, including methadone you can make it easier to come off just taper down to crumbs if possible, like under 1mg and it cant be as bad.

The only way i can compare it and tapering off without much w/d would be when i see people at the outpatient place complain about coming off sub and they're still at 2mg. try tapering to .25, or even .125 and it would be much easier then stupidly hopping off at 1-2mg IMO. That's really the only way i can compare cuz ive never done methadone, im just going off things ive seen and heard, that's all.
 
On the surface I might agree that sub forums for different types of drugs seem useful, but I can see this causing problems with it's own clutter. The question is when our members have a situation and they want an answer. Say this topic's been covered many times so you want to refer them to a mega thread. But sometimes people don't want to check the search engine and to them their circumstances are unique. Every day you have the same problem, what to do?
 
^^

Humm.. Interesting.

Anybody else interested in an opiate specific sub forum? Can we get some pros and cons?

I think opiates should have their own forum, so that I don't have to see all the opiate posts. :) I articulated my arguments when I first got here and even then (3 yrs ago) the answer was "we'll think about it" so I'm not expecting much. I know you don't want subforums for every type of drug, so how about this? Analyze OD and see if opiates make up at least 40-50% of posts - then I think they'd be discussed enough that they should be in their own area. If they're really just 25% or less of OD threads then that's different.

On another note, I was going to suggest putting OD in the same subheading as ADD and BDD, but when I went to see where that might be, I see that it looks like ADD is now gone. In that case I recommend changing the instructions for OD which say "Please use ADD or BDD for more advanced or basic topics, respectively." because that is going to confuse the hell out of newcomers!
 
We're not likely going to be splitting up the forums, because like I already said:

-poly drug abuse is so prevalent and yes things could be more organized, but do you have any suggestions for how you might go about doing so, provided splitting OD into subforums is not an option due to the high rates of poly drug abuse and the clutter that is known to cause any forum to have people posting in multiple sections making it more difficult for staff to do their job.
-moderators don't grow on trees although they may grow them re: medicinal cannabis and if you have any idea of the redundancy and the % of threads created that have already been covered at least one maybe even a hundred or a few hundred times already over the course of OD's maturation into the non-glorifying or condoning drug abuse,
-yet, still providing the HR haven it is meant to be today to help lower the risks of casualties of drug abuse that we can't (and no one can) control besides the person in question, and we aren't medical professionals despite many of us having experience(s) with Overdosing on any drug and the perils of addiction and the wake/aftermath left behind, be it in the form of short, medium, and/or long term damage either through physical, emotional, & psychological needs..... dissociated, isolated,, borderline, depression, risk of overdose, risk of endangering others while operating heavy machinery too carelessly or endangering society at large by driving intoxicated, injuring others or endangering children, suicide, accidental or intentional overdose and the effect that this has on the families, friends, the people who have to live with such a monumental loss of light in their lives...

It's really hard to put into words the agony of getting a phone call saying your close friend was just found dead in his apartment, amongst many needles, or foil and straw in hands, and just, we gotta remember that the focus here is not teaching people how to get high, we can't control that they will go get high via what they believe is the best way to do so anyways so that brings us back to the harm reduction concept....

I just really feel strongly that dividing up OD would pose a threat to the poly drug using community, which is probably the majority of readers here, I don't know, we haven't run any recent surveys to see what substances members are reporting using over say, 30 days, but I bet if we did, the number of people who were only doing one drug and that their thread doesn't require the discussion of other drug classes and the severity of interactions and combinations and dosages calculated/estimated specifically for the person in question based on the information they've provided.

The number of people who would write back saying they only abuse one medication I really think that based on the trends of most threads, poly drug abuse is a heavily prevalent and lethal practice even when one is being careful you just never know, and often when benzdiazepines or other sedatives are involved, there is a lot of inhibition/common-sense loss & complete failure to accurately regulate dosage intake, which is why so many people black out after taking unknown amounts of any given sedative;

alprazolam, triazolam, diazepam, flunitrazepam, midazolam, temazepam, etc.

Hardcore antipsychotics are also pretty damned strong sedatives and should be used with caution when someone's abusing opioids concurrently, or wants to drink some ethanol to potentiate, or rather, stacking CNS depressants in ways that lead to possibly life-changing or fatalities via respiratory depression, organ failure, aspiration of vomit or fluids present after a seizure, allergic reaction to a bulking agent.... it's just something that I don't think can be handled more efficiently if we had OD branched off.

Like picturing, (FOR EXAMPLE) something like, Opioids....Do we split street dope, be it tar heroin AND powder/#4 / International varieties of opium/heroin extracts, are these all lumped together despite each type being prevalent to specific area/areas since there would be differences? I think not, We have various threads warning people about heroin, including the sticky, and the guides that our staff have put together over the years, do we just, have duplicates of these threads in the SW-USA region? OD is a HR focus forum, so I don't see dividing things up regionally would do any good.

And would we be covering pharmaceutical grade opioids as well? in the same place as we discuss clandestinely produced & distributed heroin?

Meth/Amphetamines? Shake and Bake vs P2P cooks vs. RP/I reduct etc, Is this where pharmaceutical amphetamines/methampheatmines go despite the wild differences in the drug based on the form it's currently in and how chemically it got to that point, how stable, how pure each method is and each chef's level of experience is different so they often behave like different drugs altogether based on the purity.

Do we split Benzodiazepines/Barbiturates, Ethanol/Alcohol abuse, amongst any others with affinity for GABAergics via GHB/GBL, or whatever, do we organize via the receptor targeted? What if the likely situation includes various receptors/subreceptors specifically being targetted like when mixing opioids and benzodiazepines.

Other than cocaine and the various dissociatives, PCP, analogues, ketamine, methoxetamine, "Research/Unknown Chemicals", I just am not seeing any advantage to splitting up the forums. If a large percentage of the posters here favor one particular class of drugs, so be it, the fact is that education about drug interactions, dosing and tolerance levels, routes of administration, sterile prep processes and proper use of a 0.2um micron filter...all of that stuff that people allegedging they only use one drug, would still need to know about and having information about it in a centralized forum as it is now.

The search engine would easily search through all of OD and the archives, and poly drug abusers won't get lost in a forum dedicated to what they perceive as their drug of choice, however if their use is accompanied by another chemical, and there are things they should know before continuing their lifestyle without making an educated decision first, I just don't see any advantage to dividing up OD. Some drugs fit or contradict use across drug classes, like potentially lethal interactions between anti-depressants and potent stimulants, or say something like Tramadol, which is notorious for it's seizure threshold reductions at low and unpredictable doses, is a synthetic opioid yet also an SNRI antidepressant.

Anyways, the following post piqued my interest:

Neuroenhancer mega-thread?
Elaborate?
 
The way I read this is saying "We're not going to improve it since there's no way to make it perfect." That's a defeatist attitude. Pick the one subtype that gets the most posts in OD, and split it. That will probably be opiates - define it to include rx and street, or however you wish, and decree it so. Everything else stays in OD since there isn't the demand or volume to require a separate forum. People will adjust and ultimately both forums will be cleaner and easier to read. Or decree that no changes will be made - but then don't ask how it can be improved.
 
i agree 100% actually. the people that i've seen do it mostly do it just once then cut that shit out, but there are some new accounts that use swim like it's their job, even after being warned.

if you go to other forums, there are serious consequences for NOT using "swim" - so it's a hard habit to break when they come here. if it's considered troublesome, you could put a warning in red at the top of every page, "do not use swim or foaf or any other such terms" - and/or add those terms to a filter which would not allow them to post using those words, or would pop up the rule so they could revise the post first.
 
Neuroenhancer mega-thread?

Cool, man. What specifically did you have in mind?

The way I read this is saying "We're not going to improve it since there's no way to make it perfect." That's a defeatist attitude. Pick the one subtype that gets the most posts in OD, and split it. That will probably be opiates - define it to include rx and street, or however you wish, and decree it so. Everything else stays in OD since there isn't the demand or volume to require a separate forum. People will adjust and ultimately both forums will be cleaner and easier to read. Or decree that no changes will be made - but then don't ask how it can be improved.


In our opinion, as having already extensively talked about the splitting OD and creating an opiate only forum, we decided (a lot of members included), that we would not be better off with an opiate specific forum. Read the posts further up this thread for some of the reasons why.

So, just because one person throws out a suggestion for improvement here, and we don't say okay we're going to do that, doesn't mean we aren't listening and that this thread is pointless. This thread is for people to give their opinion on how they think OD can improve and for discussing it.. not as a checklist for members to get what they want. Some of the things said here we will do, some we wont.. that's how it is. At the end of the day, we make the final decision after talking about these topics in depth outside this thread as staff, as well as the brief discussion in here. We value everyones input though, which is why we created this thread, but don't get pissed and say we aren't changing anything, just because we don't take every idea you have as gospel and make that change because you said so.
 
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Cool, man. What specifically did you have in mind?




In our opinion, as having already extensively talked about the splitting OD and creating an opiate only forum, we decided (a lot of members included), that we would not be better off with an opiate specific forum. Read the posts further up this thread for some of the reasons why.

So, just because one person throws out a suggestion for improvement here, and we don't say okay we're going to do that, doesn't mean we aren't listening and that this thread is pointless. This thread is for people to give their opinion on how they think OD can improve and for discussing it.. not as a checklist for members to get what they want. Some of the things said here we will do, some we wont.. that's how it is. At the end of the day, we make the final decision after talking about these topics in depth outside this thread as staff, as well as the brief discussion in here. We value everyones input though, which is why we created this thread, but don't get pissed and say we aren't changing anything, just because we don't take every idea you have as gospel and make that change because you said so.

It's your decision to make, split or not split, and all the BL members will deal with your decision. But don't be insulting and say only one person suggested it. I've seen many people make the suggestion independently, and even in this thread I was not the first to bring it up.
 
^^

No you weren't the first person, you were the last, after it was already discussed. Which is fine, people can bring up whatever they want and if they feel they have good reasoning for a change, then by all means post away.. but then if we don't immediately take the suggestion and implement it.. don't say "oh you guys aren't actually listening to us and changing anything." That's pretty much what you said. I didn't have a problem with you bringing up splitting the forum, suggestions like that are what this thread is for, what I had a problem with (and what I actually said in my post if you'd reread it) was that you were basically pissed we didn't just say "oh you're right we're going to do that right now for you! Thank you so much!". Just because we don't take every suggestion and do it, doesn't mean we aren't listening or going to change anything. You can't take it so personally and bash us if we say that we talked something over and decided against it.. this thread is about suggestions, not members telling us what to do and getting mad if we don't do it..

So, that's all I'll say about that. I don't want to get into a big discussion about this. Again, all suggestions are welcome, but please be patient and respectful when bringing them up.
 
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