Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[Captain.Heroin]

So I saw the Subs Dr and the appointment went very well. He prescribed me 8mg suboxone. My prescription says I'm to take it twice a day, but the Dr said I can take it pretty much however I'd like.

I'm so relieved that I felt nothing bad when I took the first dose yesterday. I took some Immodium just in case my bowels decided to give way (which they did, last night, so I took more last night and this morning).

What suggestions do you have for dosing? I don't really feel anything on it. And the idea that I haven't had any Methadone since Tuesday morning baffles me. I used to take my husband's meds, then he caught me and started giving me my own stash, then he got mad and started hiding his meds (which I'd always find). He called a divorce lawyer and I finally realized I needed off this Methadone trip and here I am. If I am going to get my daughter I have to make sure my side of the street is squeaky clean. He doesn't know I'm on the Subs. He doesn't know I've started therapy. He has no idea that I plan on leaving him, and taking my daughter (all under whatever legal advice I'm looking for). Sorry for the backstory, but that's how I got here.

My Subs Dr wants me to try to be on it for 7 months. Obviously I have to get well and have a decent relapse prevention program. I think being on 8mgs 2x/day is a lot to take. I did take both doses today but I'm wondering if I should try to use maybe 4mgs 2x/day and see if I can keep the cravings at bay.

Should I just quit the Subs ASAP, like after a week, when all the built up Methadone leaves my body? Or am I still at risk of going into withdrawals if I lower the Subs dose? I should probably be asking the Dr these things but you guys have more practical experience.

I am simply overjoyed because I haven't had to take Methadone for 2 days already. It's like AA's "pink cloud" all over again.

take 2mg intervals, several times through the day if you have to, and reduce to once a day if possible.

8mg at once is a bit much

 

[kapua]

You're taking 16mg a day? Honestly, I thought you'd need 8mg a day in total at most. I was taking a similar dose of methadone as you before I switched to Suboxone, it's only that I was mostly clean for almost 2 months before I started taking Suboxone. At the very beginning I felt overwhelmed by buprenorphine at 4mg a day, I had terrible headaches, and I needed to lower it down to 2mg a day, but then I thought I needed more. The truth is I started taking more than 2mg because I wanted it to work stronger, I got used to 2mg a day, then I got used to 4mg a day, but I felt nothing, so I kept increasing it. I'm now sure that I could have made it at 2mg if I only got used to feeling sober. It's just my piece of advice that you try taking 4mg twice a day or 8mg once a day because some day you may want to quit it for good and tapering down isn't much easier than tapering down methadone, so the lower the dose, the better. I've been on Suboxone for 2 years and I'm really tired of it. Most of the side effects are typical opioid side effects, but you start noticing them more when you don't get any pleasurable effects from your drug. At first I was very happy to be off methadone, and I guess that's the right reaction, then I was happy to be off clonazepam, I definitely noticed myself changing and I had great strength to fight, I hardly ever thought about morphine. But I've just realised that if your life doesn't really change for good and you still live the same life you lived before getting addicted, then at some point it will prompt you to use again for the same reason it did before. My perspective has changed a lot, or actually it returned to my sober perspective, I grew up, but my life didn't change at all. I think it's better to think about it at the beginning than to be disappointed later. Sometimes I just think that my brain is fried in a way because of drugs and I can't feel as much emotions from simple every day stuff as non-addicts do. I started rediscovering the world and life, but once again I stopped and asked myself whether this is really what I was missing and whether it's really worth it.

You said a lot of good things here, and I really appreciate it. By the time I stopped using the Methadone I wasn't feeling anything in the realm of being high, I was taking it simply to stop the withdrawal symptoms. Every once in a while I'd want to take more, to feel something, but I realized that was pointless and I used a lot of willpower to keep to the 20mgs.

I think I took the second dose yesterday just to see if something would happen, if I'd feel different, more, or better (if you know what I mean). But aside from maybe 10 minutes of minor euphoria, I was back to normal. It definitely isn't a "high" I want to bother chasing.
I am going to see how long I can go without taking any Subs today, and if I find I'm getting edgy, I'll only take 4mg or even 2mg, depending on how well I can cut the 8mg tablet.

 

[kapua]

Thanks Captain! I wanted to hear from you about this. I don't know what the half-life of Suboxone is, I'm sure I still have plenty of the 16mgs I took yesterday in my body so I'm going to see how I get by without taking any today.

 

[burn out]

kapua I am glad to hear you made it onto the suboxone without precipitated withdrawal. I didn't realize you were only taking 20 mgs of methadone, that is why the sub is working so well for you (it doesn't work nearly as well for huge habits). My advice would be to stay on the suboxone for at least a few weeks, always lowering your dose as much as possible. If you keep lowering your dose, pretty soon you will be able to get by on as a little as .5 mgs per day or less and in my experience, the lower the dose you are on, the more you will actually feel a boost when you do take your dose. So right there, that is incentive to help you lower your dose. IMO, that is the beauty of suboxone, unlike full agonists which make you feel better the more you take, suboxone actually makes you feel better when you are taking less and that way you can get your tolerance low which makes it much easier to detox completely. I recommend getting hold of some kratom for when you do jump off the sub and taking that at night, especially if you cant sleep. That will take care of 100% of the sub withdrawal, just dont get addicted to the kratom in the mean time.

 

[kapua]

If you want you could do a quick taper once stabilised on sub's(which it sounds like you pretty much are) you could make the tapering of the sub's last about 2 weeks until your down to 0.5mgs or so then jump off and go through the Suboxone withdrawal which may be moderate to severe. Suboxone is an opiate with about the same symptoms of methadone when use is ceased so if you don't taper properly you could be putting yourself through more suffering than is nessesary. I wouldn't worry too much about the methadone leaving your body if your on sub's then the methadone is no longer on the receptors so now Suboxone is what you have to worry about you will have some methadone still lingering in your body but for the most part after a few weeks it should be gone.

Not trying to scare you but many patients report Suboxone withdrawal to be worse/more drawn out than methadone withdrawal. But everybody is different of course for me, I didn't find Suboxone withdrawal to be even as bad as heroin withdrawal since it is tapered much easier. You could try using 4mgs twice a day but depending on how much methadone you've done it may not hold you. Most heroin addicts only need about 4 mabye 8mgs but methadone addicts are a different story methadone is so powerful many can't even go from it to Suboxone and get stable so high doses may actually be nessesary in your case. But give it a shot anyways you don't want to raise your tolerance with the sub's that's the last thing you want actually.

My therapist told me my Subs Dr can be a bit heavy-handed with dosing. My first thought was asking only for 2mg/day but my therapist thought it would be too little for me to keep me from the Methadone. But everything I read here seems to indicate that less is so much better than being hooked on Suboxone. And I definitely don't want to have to go through Subs withdrawal.
Thanks for helping me understand.

 

[kapua]

Thanks again Burn Out for the support! I'm going to see how well I can cut up the 8mg. And I'll ask my Dr for the 2mg tablets next time.

 

[stayZOOTY]

Not sure why you're so defensive, you shared your story and that's my opinion on it. If you didn't want to hear it you should have kept it to yourself.

Anyway, stay with the strips, they come in 2mg also. Makes it much to accurately get doses in the ug range when tapering off.

 

[Delarm323]

Like other people asking here, I am thinking of just stopping my subs since I ran out almost 3 weeks before I get a refill. Anyways, I had a pretty nasty dope habit for a few years, then out of nowhere I was thrown in jail for a month. I was released into a rehab and then got put on suboxone. For 6 months I took 4mg a day and then 2mg for the last 6 or so months. Ten days ago I went to get a new sub film and noticed there was one left when I should of had at least 50(2 boxes) since I am prescribed 2 8mg a day, and they were basically just filled. I know who did it, they are still a junkie friend of mine. I was mad at the time and just flushed the last strip and said I am just going to try being 100% clean.
Tuesday the 9th I took a 2mg strip in the morning and one at night. That was my last dose and I felt like complete crap since then, coming off of a 40-50bag a day habit in jail seemed way easier. I lay in bed all night barely sleep, usually about an hour a night. My pupils are so huge there is barely any color in my eyes. I was always told exercise is good, everyday since I stopped taking subs I walk about 4 miles every day, to get my niece off the bus. I sometime seriously think I can't make it there but I always do.

Anyways tonight for the first time I am feeling little spurts of energy and noticed my pupils are not as big, does this mean I am maybe seeing some light?

Any info would be appreciated.

 

[fullycaffeinated]

The bupe thread's baaaccckkk....!!!!!

Sorry, a lil excited :D

Evey, I think 6mg is a good step for you between 8 and 4, for me, I had to land at 6 for quite awhile before further cuts. Then, after a couple months of struggling to EVER get below 6, it was like one day, I was just ready, and I've been below 4 ever since, usually around 2 but lately I've upped it a bit due to cravings and very high stress due to unemployment running out and finding a job. But now I got someone else to work w me and I'm gettin some cash and should be able to afford a car, so that's a bright spot :D

Like other people asking here, I am thinking of just stopping my subs since I ran out almost 3 weeks before I get a refill. Anyways, I had a pretty nasty dope habit for a few years, then out of nowhere I was thrown in jail for a month. I was released into a rehab and then got put on suboxone. For 6 months I took 4mg a day and then 2mg for the last 6 or so months. Ten days ago I went to get a new sub film and noticed there was one left when I should of had at least 50(2 boxes) since I am prescribed 2 8mg a day, and they were basically just filled. I know who did it, they are still a junkie friend of mine. I was mad at the time and just flushed the last strip and said I am just going to try being 100% clean.
Tuesday the 9th I took a 2mg strip in the morning and one at night. That was my last dose and I felt like complete crap since then, coming off of a 40-50bag a day habit in jail seemed way easier. I lay in bed all night barely sleep, usually about an hour a night. My pupils are so huge there is barely any color in my eyes. I was always told exercise is good, everyday since I stopped taking subs I walk about 4 miles every day, to get my niece off the bus. I sometime seriously think I can't make it there but I always do.

Anyways tonight for the first time I am feeling little spurts of energy and noticed my pupils are not as big, does this mean I am maybe seeing some light?

Any info would be appreciated.

I would say that 10 days after last dose, you should be coming around the bend. I'm sorry they stole your shit, that's really pretty fucked up, and was one of my worst fears having 100+ strips around at a time. I ended up separating mine and hiding them around my crib. But anyways, I think you are right, you should be starting to come through the other side.

The psyche seems to have an effect on a kick, during a jail kick, you know there's no way you're getting anything to relieve your sickness, but when you can make a call or go to the spot or whatev, I feel like your mind fucks with you a lot more to get what it feels it needs. Not to say kicking is entirely psychological or "all in your head", but in a way, it's all about what your body expects from your mind's signals. If the mind knows there's no chance of getting what it needs, I feel it wreaks a lot less havoc on your body. I've never kicked in jail, but I've kicked at work where my connects were hours away plenty of times more easily than I could at my house 10 miles away from my best connects, or on vacation with my mom where I didn't have the option to go anywhere without bringing her along, where I got by with just a handful of kpins I jacked from her (she doesn't take her whole script anyways). A situation we can probably all relate to, is when you are sick as hell and get "the call", and all the sudden you can get out of bed to meet your connect, when before you were totally laid up...

 

[Delarm323]

The bupe thread's baaaccckkk....!!!!!

I would say that 10 days after last dose, you should be coming around the bend. I'm sorry they stole your shit, that's really pretty fucked up, and was one of my worst fears having 100+ strips around at a time. I ended up separating mine and hiding them around my crib. But anyways, I think you are right, you should be starting to come through the other side.

The psyche seems to have an effect on a kick, during a jail kick, you know there's no way you're getting anything to relieve your sickness, but when you can make a call or go to the spot or whatev, I feel like your mind fucks with you a lot more to get what it feels it needs. Not to say kicking is entirely psychological or "all in your head", but in a way, it's all about what your body expects from your mind's signals. If the mind knows there's no chance of getting what it needs, I feel it wreaks a lot less havoc on your body. I've never kicked in jail, but I've kicked at work where my connects were hours away plenty of times more easily than I could at my house 10 miles away from my best connects, or on vacation with my mom where I didn't have the option to go anywhere without bringing her along, where I got by with just a handful of kpins I jacked from her (she doesn't take her whole script anyways). A situation we can probably all relate to, is when you are sick as hell and get "the call", and all the sudden you can get out of bed to meet your connect, when before you were totally laid up...

I totally agree, I found jail to sorta be a godsend to kick. Even though I been off subs I haven't really been craving anything. I also have type 1 diabetes and having to use syringes multiple times a day doesn't bring up any cravings. Just music does still but anyways thanks for the reply!

 

[Delarm323]

Any suggestion on what to do when coming off suboxone to help sleep. The first two nights I slept an hour or two total but haven't slept in like 7 days at all but around 3 hours. For some reason when I take sleeping pills they cause me to have terrible RLS where its like electricity is pulsing through my forearms and fingers. Anyone got any tips?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thanks Captain! I wanted to hear from you about this. I don't know what the half-life of Suboxone is, I'm sure I still have plenty of the 16mgs I took yesterday in my body so I'm going to see how I get by without taking any today.

I believe it's listed in the first post of this thread, and should be 20-something hours, with a range of up to 70 hours (it depends from person to person; elderly and young might metabolize this slower)

Any suggestion on what to do when coming off suboxone to help sleep. The first two nights I slept an hour or two total but haven't slept in like 7 days at all but around 3 hours. For some reason when I take sleeping pills they cause me to have terrible RLS where its like electricity is pulsing through my forearms and fingers. Anyone got any tips?

Antihistamines can help but I wouldn't recommend them

benzodiazepines are much better and have less side effects, in my experience

 

[Delarm323]

Antihistamines can help but I wouldn't recommend them

benzodiazepines are much better and have less side effects, in my experience

What are the side effects of Antihistamines?

 

[JackiePeyton]

Dry mouth, sleepiness, urinary retention

 

[Delarm323]

Dry mouth, sleepiness, urinary retention

Aslong as it doesn't make me thrash around like a mad person like Trazidone , ambien and tempizam.(spelling is wrong sorry). I am going to try taking two 25mg of it late tonight. Hopefully get some sleep. Thanks for the reply/l

 

[fullycaffeinated]

What are the side effects of Antihistamines?

To add to the other comments, antihistamines (ESPECIALLY BENADRYL) tend to add to my RLS. Hopefully you don't have a tolerance built up to them, but if you do (like me), they will just add RLS and not knock you out. What I'd like to know, is what kind of "sleeping pills" were you taking? Most OTC sleep aids are either diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Benadryl) or doxylamine succinate. The latter is far more helpful, and less likely to exaberate RLS. For some reason it tends not to work for me anymore, but most report much better luck.

Edit: I see you listed ambien, trazadone, and temazepam. Ambien is a sleep aid related to benzos, trazadone is an anti-depressant that promotes sleep, and temazepam is a benzo good for sleep. Hmmm... surprised you even had issues with temazepam. I'd say the doxylamine succinate (which you can find as a generic sleep aid or in some preparations of unisom) is your best shot.

 

[Delarm323]

To add to the other comments, antihistamines (ESPECIALLY BENADRYL) tend to add to my RLS. Hopefully you don't have a tolerance built up to them, but if you do (like me), they will just add RLS and not knock you out. What I'd like to know, is what kind of "sleeping pills" were you taking? Most OTC sleep aids are either diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Benadryl) or doxylamine succinate. The latter is far more helpful, and less likely to exaberate RLS. For some reason it tends not to work for me anymore, but most report much better luck.

Edit: I see you listed ambien, trazadone, and temazepam. Ambien is a sleep aid related to benzos, trazadone is an anti-depressant that promotes sleep, and temazepam is a benzo good for sleep. Hmmm... surprised you even had issues with temazepam. I'd say the doxylamine succinate (which you can find as a generic sleep aid or in some preparations of unisom) is your best shot.

Thanks. I will have to look into the doxylamine succinate sleep stuff tomorrow as part of my daily long *** walk I do. I haven't taken benadryl in... well probably a year. Tonight I am going to try some of that sleepy time tea and two benadryl. If it don't work well that sucks but it is what it is.

 

[burn out]

Does anyone know how long after taking suboxone I can get high on kratom? I shot 8 mgs of sub over the course of the last six days, the past 2 days only using very small amounts like .2 mgs. I want to go back on kratom because I realized I like it so much more than suboxone but it seems the sub is blocking it because I took a strong dose and only feel minor effects.

 

[burn out]

Thanks. I will have to look into the doxylamine succinate sleep stuff tomorrow as part of my daily long *** walk I do. I haven't taken benadryl in... well probably a year. Tonight I am going to try some of that sleepy time tea and two benadryl. If it don't work well that sucks but it is what it is.

In my experience benadryl is useless for sleep in opiate withdrawal. You need to get some kratom or benzos.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What are the side effects of Antihistamines?

Some people hallucinate off them (I seriously don't think that's common whatsoever)

For myself I get really shitty feeling the next day like I am not happy and it detracts from my energy the next day

It's weird and I'm not exactly sure how to put my experience with it into words.