Benzos Low dose benzo for kratom taper safety

[Pine93]

Hi guys, I'm a 125lb male who's been using kratom in varying amounts for almost two years now, 5-6g of potent kratom 2x/day lately, and I feel the time has come to cut back or take a break. I have been getting pretty disruptive RLS just from tapering to 4.5-5g 2x/day, and I have a prescription for valium 5mg. Would it be okay to take 2.5-5mg a few times with my kratom taper? I am very experienced with both drugs, and I have actually combined them in the past, however I know benzos/opioids are a very dangerous combo, and I'm not to keen on ending up in the ER over some RLS. I do not currently have a benzo tolerance, and my kratom tolerance isn't too bad, which is remarkable after constant daily use!

Based on all my factors, is there any way this could really go wrong? If you have an answer that isn't suitable for public response than just PM me please. I am so tired of worrying about this, I just need some relief, and my anxiety levels require some peace of mind over this decision! Thanks.

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

A low dose of valium like that (2.5, 5mg) shouldn't be a problem. It seems totally safe and should provide a little relief. Good luck

 

[ml42o]

You should be fine. I've been on 2mg klonopin and 120mgs of methadone for about 2 years now so that low dose of Valium with an opiate or opioid shouldn't be a problem and will definitely help with the taper

 

[《Plasticity》]

I frequently mix benzos/thienos with my kratom and have never noticed any remarkable CNS depression. You will more likely than not be able to take even higher quantities of valium if things get too rough. Kratom isn't your average opiate, it just simply has never caused me any real respiratory depression in my three years of use. A combination of phenibut and a benzo can be really helpfull for withdrawals but must be used in moderation. I've found the best way to cut back or quit kratom is with tramadol.

Kratom has way too short of a halflife for a proper taper and I find if I lower my dose at all I'll be in withdrawal in a much shorter time than if I were to take a higher initial dose. If you can get a hold of tramadol you should be able to taper realtively painlessly. Just get by on the smallest amt of tram until night then take a small 2 gram dose to get you to sleep then keep lowering your tram dose til your able to go all day without it then work on tapering your small nightly dose, benzos can help ease the pain. Another chem that I've found incredibly helpfull for quitting is MXE. Methoxetamine in small doses greatly takes the edge off things while being an NMDA antagonist at the same time. Best of both worlds, anyways good luck on your taper.

 

[Pine93]

I frequently mix benzos/thienos with my kratom and have never noticed any remarkable CNS depression. You will more likely than not be able to take even higher quantities of valium if things get too rough. Kratom isn't your average opiate, it just simply has never caused me any real respiratory depression in my three years of use. A combination of phenibut and a benzo can be really helpfull for withdrawals but must be used in moderation. I've found the best way to cut back or quit kratom is with tramadol.

Kratom has way too short of a halflife for a proper taper and I find if I lower my dose at all I'll be in withdrawal in a much shorter time than if I were to take a higher initial dose. If you can get a hold of tramadol you should be able to taper realtively painlessly. Just get by on the smallest amt of tram until night then take a small 2 gram dose to get you to sleep then keep lowering your tram dose til your able to go all day without it then work on tapering your small nightly dose, benzos can help ease the pain. Another chem that I've found incredibly helpfull for quitting is MXE. Methoxetamine in small doses greatly takes the edge off things while being an NMDA antagonist at the same time. Best of both worlds, anyways good luck on your taper.

I notice I get hiccups when i combine kratom with things like grapefruit juice (potentiator) or mj, making it so when I tried to cough or breath deeply, I would hiccup. At the risk of sounding noobish, are hiccups a sign of minor respiratory depression? I have also had this from large doses of benzos alone.

 

[Pine93]

Sorry for the double post, but I have one more question. Is it safe to proceed with this combo if I've had schisandra berries (mechanism-based cyp3a4 inhibitor, more powerful than grapefruit juice but I had less than a gram.) I'm not sure how much potentiation could possibly come out of a 2.5mg dose though... I have heard schisandra has caused a few recorded toxicity issues. Also, could I take a cyp3a4 inducer to even the playing field, or does it not work like that?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Hiccups are completely un related to respiratory depression, trust me when I say you will be fine . I've never heard of schisandra berries so I'd wait for someone else to chime in on that but even with all the enzyme inhibitors at hand I don't think your gonna get any dangerous potentiation, especially at 2.5mgs. That's nothing, especially if you have any sort of tolerance to benzos whatsoever. If there is any sort of respiratory depression(which I HIGHLY doubt there will be) it certainly wouldn't be life threatening at such minute dosages. Also I've seen no proof that kratom is even metabolized by CYP2D6 so enzyme inhibitors like gfj or tagamet may not even be effective. I've certainly haven't noticed any real potentiation with kratom. Benzos on the otherhand I have noticed some potentiation but like I said, at 2.5 mgs your gonna be a-ok :D

 

[Pine93]

Thanks for the reply. By the way, does anyone know for a FACT that kratom has less RD potential than other opiates, or is this just a common assumption?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Thanks for the reply. By the way, does anyone know for a FACT that kratom has less RD potential than other opiates, or is this just a common assumption?

Tis very common knowledge, I'm sure any other kratom users around will agree. I think the real proof is the fact that no one has died from kratom while the same can't be said for other opiates. Read this http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-515481.html

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I frequently mix benzos/thienos with my kratom and have never noticed any remarkable CNS depression. You will more likely than not be able to take even higher quantities of valium if things get too rough. Kratom isn't your average opiate, it just simply has never caused me any real respiratory depression in my three years of use. A combination of phenibut and a benzo can be really helpfull for withdrawals but must be used in moderation. I've found the best way to cut back or quit kratom is with tramadol.

Kratom has way too short of a halflife for a proper taper and I find if I lower my dose at all I'll be in withdrawal in a much shorter time than if I were to take a higher initial dose. If you can get a hold of tramadol you should be able to taper realtively painlessly. Just get by on the smallest amt of tram until night then take a small 2 gram dose to get you to sleep then keep lowering your tram dose til your able to go all day without it then work on tapering your small nightly dose, benzos can help ease the pain. Another chem that I've found incredibly helpfull for quitting is MXE. Methoxetamine in small doses greatly takes the edge off things while being an NMDA antagonist at the same time. Best of both worlds, anyways good luck on your taper.

I have mixed kratom and benzos (temazepam and Xanax) many times and like you said I've never noticed much if any CNS depression. I do have quite a bit of experience with both substances so it wouldn't be something I'd recommend to someone without an opiate and benzo tolerance.

 

[Pine93]

Snake _Eyes, how much have you mixed of each before? Also would like to here from others who have tried this combo, especially if it caused any problems. Actually, any info on the combo would be good. I had about 2mg last night and went to bed pretty early and everything was fine. Is there anyone who does this often and how heavily will small doses affect cognitive performance? I am trying to cut back as smoothly as possible because I have quite a few responsibilities and deadlines to meet. Any anecdotal info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[amanitadine]

Before I quit taking Kratom two months ago I was using 50g of PL a day for a looong time....and was also concurrently prescribed 60 mg of diazepam a day. No RD. So trust me, at this levels of Kratom and diaz, you'll be just fine :D

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Snake _Eyes, how much have you mixed of each before? Also would like to here from others who have tried this combo, especially if it caused any problems. Actually, any info on the combo would be good. I had about 2mg last night and went to bed pretty early and everything was fine. Is there anyone who does this often and how heavily will small doses affect cognitive performance? I am trying to cut back as smoothly as possible because I have quite a few responsibilities and deadlines to meet. Any anecdotal info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Plain leaf kratom- up to 2 teaspoons (6 grams?)
Temazepam- usually 15mg but I've done as high as 30mg
Xanax- .5mg

I've never had any issues combining the two other than being high . I also never take my benzos if I'm not at home so I don't know how the combo would be if you had to be on your toes. I suppose if you kept both dosages low it probably wouldn't be two bad however at the amount that I do I wouldn't be able to function very well.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

Ive used a lot of benzos on top of kratom... you shouldnt have a problem.. seriously.

Im actually coming off methadone using kratom. Used massive amounts the first 4 days, then had a huge cutback. Taking about 12 grams daily now.

Gonna skip the next 2 days to try to cut back even further.. got 15 bars ready for the next few days, and ativan at the end of the week.

 

[Pine93]

Alright, now that we've established that this is a safe method, how many days in a row can I be taking this 2.5mg-5mg valium without severe rebound? I know everyones different, would just like a little advice, and would like to keep the taper as slow as I can afford. I.e, would 3 days in a row be okay, maintain at the kratom dose for a while, and continue the taper after I am steady on the kratom dose, resuming the benzos for another 3 days in a row the next week? Sorry if that doesn't make sense 8)

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

More than a week. wont be bad

 

[BenzoBen]

Opioids and benzos are not a dangerous combo, if you follow instructions. I could do 30MG of Percocet a day (prescribed, of course) and asked the Pharmacist if I could take my Ativan on top of it and she said yes. I'd pop in 3 1mg Ativan in right after downing my Percocet and it basically enhanced the euphoric feeling but never got to a point where it scared me. I added some Hydroxazine (a strong antihistamine) and all was kosher. Granted, I've been on benzos for about 10 years; I've basically tried all of them. I make sure I get the OK from my Pharmacist before I mix any drugs. Also, chewing some Kava Kava with the aforementioned also increases the benzo's hypnotic features and well as up the pain reduction.