Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

[Ismene]

If any active impurities are present then they're just as likely to make the experience BETTER rather than "dirtier".

 

[Incunabula]

The never ending debate 8)

d-LSD 25 is d-LSD 25, most Definitely. But I swear I've had black market "LSD" blotters that contain an ergoloid reminiscent of LSD but still with a distinct character, several times. I know that set and setting plays a part as well, but it's not a fully satisfying explanation in my subjective experience (which I'm not bothered to have a debate about)

I don't understand the constant focus on "impurity" on here, and in other similar threads. Isn't it more or less a fact by now that non of the impurities from LSD synthesis are active at dosages what can fit on a blotter.

Think out of the box, people. Could there be other reasons some "batches" have slightly varying effects from each other?

By the way, what's interesting is, that I find that people have a varying degree of sensitivity to the subjective effects of psychedelics. I have a freind who hardly feel any difference between the various 2C's I feed him. And he would be seriously pressed to describe any difference, while I could go on for hours decribing the subtle differences in style between the visuals of 2CB, 2CI, 2CT2 etc.

But yeah, what ever.....

 

[buildersoftime]

^ and this is ascertained by GC/MS it the way it makes your head feel?

LSD screws with your perceptions, that's its purpose. Why wouldn't that apply to the perception of it's effects too?

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

"At Woodstock, Hugh Romney (a/k/a "Wavy Gravy") of the Hog Farm announced to the crowd, "There's no such thing as bad acid, just acid that's made wrong." In 1969, LSD began to appear in microdots, and in 1971, on gelatin sheets of various shapes - dubbed "windowpane." The strength of individual doses swiftly decreased, and so did the purity of the average street dose."



"
In Timothy Leary at Folsom Prison, a filmed dialog made for television but never broadcast, he amplifies: "I don't particularly recommend you take LSD. First of all, 99 percent of what they say about it isn't true." Ken Kesey also had occasion to reflect back on the acid scene in his recent book Garage Sale: "I can't really recommend acid, because acid has become an almost meaningless chemical. I mean, the first acid I took was Sandoz, given me by the federal government in a series of experiments (what now, Uncle? Don't give me that anti-American drug field bullshit: you turned me on ...!) and it was beautiful.

"With perhaps the exception of Owsley's work, every bootleg batch I've tried from then on down has been interesting, enlightening, agonizing, bizarre, etc., but never anything as pure."

Many other early trippers, including Alan Harrington (author of Psychopaths), Dr. Stanley Krippner (former head of Brooklyn's Maimonides Hospital Dream Lab) and Adam Smith (author of Powers of Mind in addition to his Wall Street best sellers), have also noted the decline in psychedelic use and linked it with the purity crisis."

"
Thus, chromatography, the highly refined procedure that the organic chemist uses to isolate specific chemicals, is the key process by which impurities may or may not be removed from he eventual LSD crystal.

A passage from Psychedelic Chemistry, by Michael Valentine Smith:

There is a great deal of superstition regarding purification of psychedelics. Actually, any impurities which may be present as a result of synthetic procedures will almost certainly be without any effect on the trip.

If there are 200 micrograms of impurities present... and few compounds will produce a significant effect until a hundred to a thousand times this amount has been ingested. Even mescaline, which has a rather specific psychedelic effect, requires about a thousand times this amount."

 

[buildersoftime]

"With perhaps the exception of Owsley's work, every bootleg batch I've tried from then on down has been interesting, enlightening, agonizing, bizarre, etc., but never anything as pure."

And that implies what? That the specific arrangement of atoms that makes up LSD can carry some sort of 'dirt' within it? Or lack some sort of function that it used to possess? How? Is this by a mechanism previously unknown to physics?

Just because Tim Leary/Ram Das/McKenna/whoever made some wild, unsubstantiated, baseless proclamation, doesn't mean that it has any basis in objective, measurable fact.

Exactly what phenomenon are we talking about here? Magic? Vibes?

 

[BlueHues]

other than anything that require lab testing, one could simply intentionally use a low dose of LSD and see if it feels "dirty"...although, that would be torture for me these days since I only use LSD every few years for the last 10 years or so...

 

[xTalK]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

While it's interesting to read big advocates of LSD, considered they'be 'been there done that' and essentially got the t-shirt many a time, I wouldn't take their advice that the chemical is meaningless. Of course it's not going to have the same effect on them now that they've grown older and the worlds changed. Would be ignorant to say others couldn't though. The people at all the festivals/gigs over the years and scientists that have became more modern less in the limelight advocates didn't all get it off their government.

The way that this thread's title is 'White Fluff' vs 'Needlepoint' is already mis leading for trying to find a conclusion as to what people are asking. Considering it already creates a divide as you have people like me who view it as an American piece of dealer talk. I might claim I find 'LSD' as clean, but I wont sit here and give out random names like 'Needlepoint' which you've read online via few old ChinaCat posts. How can something that was supposedly relevant (if ChinaCat is legit) still have the same impact today when it is likely it's completely different people knocking it out with their own way of judging things. There might still be 90% LSD, but if you made your own Heisenburg of LSD theirs high potential you're not gonah give it the typical name of 'white fluff' that all low-time american dealers seem to be obsessed with. Why not just say high quality?

Low doses definitely aren't a way to judge dirty acid from my experience but it's each to their own, I find acid feels dirtier at lower doses as you are on the edge of it rather than in the pool swimming deep (dose that isn't strong, but reasonable). But in saying that, I find the experience ultimately comes down to the person, very much like MDMA connoisseurs can notice a difference between batches the LSD user can too. But at the same time, a few years back I was quite heavily into cid and tried a number of blotter off the same sheet. I had weak trips, strong trips, dirty trips, clean trips, sick trips, insightful trips. Considering setting has such a big impact I think that is where the confusion is for most people. The same way I've had stuff that felt like a much more strong push to 'being one' etc and that side of LSD, but looking back it was liquid and it's likely just that ROA, it's likely just the dose was higher and the subtly of liquid prevented nausea etc.

Also people are prone to nausea on LSD one time and maybe not the next, but people need to understand that it is an effect if you research properly and not beyond it being the 'holy grail of psychedelics' and bloody ChinaCat. Did you ever think of what you ate before? How much sleep you had? Rather than basing your experience solely on a label someone gave you.

If you go to a big euphoric concert of your favorite band it's going to feel like more of a spiritual/significant event than that time you sat in McDonalds tripping with your mates.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

While it's interesting to read big advocates of LSD, considered they'be 'been there done that' and essentially got the t-shirt many a time,

Leary's first quote in article, maybe I'm misunderstanding:

In Timothy Leary at Folsom Prison, a filmed dialog made for television but never broadcast, he amplifies: "I don't particularly recommend you take LSD. First of all, 99 percent of what they say about it isn't true."

Low doses definitely aren't a way to judge dirty acid from my experience but it's each to their own

Experienced what I consider real LSD once (no bitterness, fast onset) and it was amazing. But ONLY once, so I have no way to compare. Everything afterwards has been bitter and had a 1hr30minute comeup+

 

[xTalK]

Well he is right in that 99% of what they say about it isn't true, doesn't take much more than this thread and stupid myths such as acid being stored in your back/orange juice boy/etc to realize that like all drugs there is a lot of rubbish misinformation out there. However as I said when Leary has said that quote he's in prison (got the tshirt), it's well after all the studies at University, etc and after many run ins with the law, is it any wonder he isn't playing the big advocate when someone's controlling his release? Think this was the 70s when he was in Folsolm so it is a few years on.

Hope you have luck finding some Lucy soon!

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Well he is right in that 99% of what they say about it isn't true, doesn't take much more than this thread and stupid myths such as acid being stored in your back/orange juice boy/etc to realize that like all drugs there is a lot of rubbish misinformation out there. However as I said when Leary has said that quote he's in prison (got the tshirt), it's well after all the studies at University, etc and after many run ins with the law, is it any wonder he isn't playing the big advocate when someone's controlling his release? Think this was the 70s when he was in Folsolm so it is a few years on.

Hope you have luck finding some Lucy soon!

My friends friends has just ran out but at least I know where!


But didn't he escape from the low security part of Folsom (wiki says escaped in September 1970) or am I getting mixed up?

 

[90's hangover]

mi too dude !!! fucking love all the old gizzers that eat a drop of brumo dragon fly,that they boat from some gipsy on the out dore of woodstock-cos they dident let them in..
and now they shooting on us in the name of tim leary,trying to tell us about the good old L
thing is that old folks :
first thing its my thread - so bassicaly im the only acidpimp here !,and now one shooting or getting og in my threads exept mi and the ppl from above..
we dont put a fuck if u was jerry garcia personal joints roller,or if u was working for the nazi's - we care only for the facts !
if somebody history was including with the facts-thats cool
but if some one was spending his last decade in this forums,only to tell us now in 2013 that albert hoffman dead,and he know shit about shit - cos his ex girlfreind mom was going to the same school with owssly syster ,and if HE sad that "thumbprint" its when u push your head to a bucket of lsd -he knows..
second thing his that we all knows that oldfolks like to tell stories..

 

[Ismene]

^^
Where have you been for the last 7 pages man?

 

[90's hangover]

was around,but kinda bussy its ducks season you know..

 

[pmoseman]

And until very recently there hasn't been any other drug but LSD active at blotter dosage.

Ismene. I notice you do not show enough concern in making your statements factual. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dob/dob_journal1.shtml
Other people have told me your statements are notoriously false.
Why do you do this? Are you just here to pick sides and copy/paste?
(Many times you have only repeated what LSD Cruiser said to make "points".)

It's called the scientific method and it was created by thousands of the smartest people on earth over thousands of years of trial and error.

I do not think the "scientific method" has been around THAT long.

I knew that someone would mention TOMSO at some point

It's not the same though. It's active in its own right.

Just from knowledge I have from reading this thread alone, that 40% of a tab can be iso-LSD and they are active at doses greater than 500 micrograms.

d-iso-LSD shows no psychological changes at an oral dose of 4 milligrams; l-LSD none at up to 10 milligrams orally; and l-iso-LSD none at 500 micrograms orally.

 

[Transform]

If any active impurities are present then they're just as likely to make the experience BETTER rather than "dirtier".

I had never considered this but it's actually a really good point. What if the stuff we're describing as "clean-feeling" actually feels that way because of impurities.

Edit: As we all know this is a heated topic and I would appreciate if posters could try to refrain from making purely inflammatory posts. You won't convince anyone if you get them angry or irritated, and additionally it does not make for a nice forum atmosphere.

 

[abrad84]

Ismene. I notice you do not show enough concern in making your statements factual. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dob/dob_journal1.shtml
Other people have told me your statements are notoriously false.
Why do you do this? Are you just here to pick sides and copy/paste?
(Many times you have only repeated what LSD Cruiser said to make "points".)

I do not think the "scientific method" has been around THAT long.

Just from knowledge I have from reading this thread alone, that 40% of a tab can be iso-LSD and they are active at doses greater than 500 micrograms.

That's not what Shulgin is saying. Read it more carefully.

d-iso-LSD shows no psychological changes at an oral dose of 4 milligrams; l-LSD none at up to 10 milligrams orally; and l-iso-LSD none at 500 micrograms orally.

Looks like he only assayed it up to 500ug and noted no activity.

 

[amanitadine]

The only time I tried different LSD was back in the day with Professor Hoffman at Sandoz. This would have been about 1958. It was very pure and clean like a mountain stream. It was known as alaskan thundercock. That was the last batch - Hoffman said it was secret and he would never make it again.

I didn't have the patience to read through this stupid fucking thread and debate that has come up time and time again on bluelight during the last 15 years. LSD is LSD. But thank you Ismene, that made me laugh heartily and I know we are on the same page as this stupid shit pops up yearly on here.....

The OP..."17 years in the game...etc"...your grammar and spelling indicate more like 7 years in the game of life. I earnestly can't tell if you are pulling our collective leg so to say..

 

[dan k]

does anyone know what would effect the come up time? i have had batches("white on white", blotter art, liquid, dots) that you can feel within 45 mins and by 75 mins your peaking, and other batches(always "white on white") that take up to 2 hours to even start to come up, many people noted this with the same batches. both batches test the same on the ehrlich reagent and seem to be about the same strength durring the peak. same visuals, same headspace, but one lasts 6-8 hours and the other lasts nearly 12 hours.

 

[Ismene]

Ismene. Other people have told me your statements are notoriously false.

The point I made is perfectly factual, until recently the only drug active at blotter level was LSD. There's been DOM and DOB yeah but they're even rarer than acid.

 

[pmoseman]

Oh, I get it, you're someone who disagreed with me months ago and having nursed a grudge ever since you've rejoined with a different username determind to "get your own back". Give it a rest man, it's not worth the effort.

The point I made is perfectly factual, until recently the only drug active at blotter level was LSD. There's been DOM and DOB yeah but they're even rarer than acid.

You still do not understand. This is technically a harm reduction forum. Every time you make stuff up you hurt someone. Either someone who believes you and makes a poor decision based on what you said or simply wastes their time finding real information from another source so they can disregard your bullshit. Time that could be spent exchanging ideas.
It is all bullshit. Everything you said. From your made up logic to support your clearly false statement to the personal attack on my character.

That's not what Shulgin is saying. Read it more carefully.


Looks like he only assayed it up to 500ug and noted no activity.

"All three are completely inactive: d-iso-LSD shows no psychological changes at an oral dose of 4 milligrams; l-LSD none at up to 10 milligrams orally; and l-iso-LSD none at 500 micrograms orally."

The rest of the quote makes it quite a lot clearer what he means.