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Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

I would like for someone to explain to me the meaning and significance of the types of LSD in the thread title. Otherwise I'm afraid I am going to have to find this all very silly. Not to mention the fact that we are on page 8.

This isn't all some dirty acid FAQ abomination is it?
 
This isn't all some dirty acid FAQ abomination is it?

Even better this time: "Is there a difference between really good LSD, and this other, also really good LSD?"

I think they are both descriptions of high purity LSD tartrate crystals: namely that they appear as a fine white fluff or as little needles, depending on growth conditions.
 
I think they are both descriptions of high purity LSD tartrate crystals: namely that they appear as a fine white fluff or as little needles, depending on growth conditions.
Pretty much. I add to the speculation that the "needle"-like crystals were seen as "higher quality" because of the myth that thicker crystal substances are purer. (ie. thick MDMA moon rocks are often automatically believed to be purer than the others and "uncut", even if that's not the case)
 
I would like for someone to explain to me the meaning and significance of the types of LSD in the thread title. Otherwise I'm afraid I am going to have to find this all very silly. Not to mention the fact that we are on page 8.

This isn't all some dirty acid FAQ abomination is it?

i hate reading threads like this, but I can't help myself. Here you go Solipsis.

Grades of LSD
fluff: white to clear- purified using chromatography, looks like fine white sand, clear in ethanol solution.

needlepoint: white to clear- rx'ed repeatedly using solvent in a rotovap, clear in ethanol solution. (not applied with a syringe, you can do that, but vacuum re crystilization yields needle shaped xtals when it's clean, thus. . .) my favorite for some reason, I think the chromatography takes something nice out for some reason, others agree or disagree.

silver: white to grayish - re crystallized a few times in rotovap, turns grey in ethanol solution.

amber: well, kinda amber grey, not rx'ed enough, turns redish in ethanol solution

lavender: greyish looking xtal. different synth route, same as Amber, it's not quite re crystallized enough. Turns purplish red in ethanol solution.

. . . or so I hear. All these different xtals feel different. Really, for honest and true. And batch to batch it's different too. Really.



i wonder why the established science types always completely disregard people like me and bluehues, who spilled some honest to god real info on you folks early in this thread . . . Thinking there really is a "ceiling" that exists around 20 hits, and you can't get any higher. . .

People who have never even seen LSD crystal don't "believe" in different kinds. . Lol.
 
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There is some well established scientific theory to the whole debate and it does not require any test using LSD. This would be the placebo effect. Only made more important due to the experiment involving LSD.

From this, the subjective experimental evidence for one side seems nearly identical the other and is a relatively small non-random sample to boot. However, Shulgin should garner more credibility as he was keeping notes. However, he was not directly testing needlepoint vs fluff.

He also has a natural bias and knew what he was taking.

I think we can quantify evidence from users who experienced the effects of dilapidated LSD. This is an interesting angle. We can see reports of users taking "expired" LSD, but then you need some way to randomize the study. Random emails to anyone that has ever had an account seems like an improvement over reading what people decide to post. Bear in mind these subjective opinions all come from people, I presume, who were feeling pretty "experienced" and I suspect most people you question would have believed in the mystical qualities of different LSD batches at the time and by default knew what they were taking.

We should hope these reports would have incredible consistency but again I suspect some wild variations, from body load, to bad trips, to great visuals claimed to be the result of different batches.

The default skeptical position goes to "I dunno" which to me is assuming that there is no known difference between needles and fluff.
 
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Placebo? Nope.

you guys are totally 100% outrageous. You just can't even entertain the idea that your weird narrow view of LSD isnt all that there is. This is why the L people don't post here, you guys really don't know shit about LSD, but you think that you do, and when someone like me pops in to maybe dispel a few myths, we get ignored and talked down to.
 
TurkeyRanch said:
Placebo? Nope.

you guys are totally 100% outrageous. You just can't even entertain the idea that your weird narrow view of LSD isnt all that there is. This is why the L people don't post here, you guys really don't know shit about LSD, but you think that you do, and when someone like me pops in to maybe dispel a few myths, we get ignored and talked down to.
I am 100% entertaining the idea that there is difference, boob head. Your swearing up and down it is true is all the evidence you have. Which is just the way it is, you need to look at it from my perspective and don't lump us all into the same group. I have nothing in common with the other people who happen to post here.

You clearly, obviously, have to consider the placebo effect a great deal. You need to respect the power your mind has over your perception of reality. If you can't handle that idea then I just don't think you get what LSD even does.
 
I read an interview with Professor Nichols a while back where he stated that he does, in fact, believe that there's a qualitative difference in batches of LSD.
 
"So then there's a genetic biological basis for explaining why there would be variability, if the change in LSD's effect is actually due to an active metabolite." - Nichols
 
Had to sign up for this one. Turkey Ranch is legit...i know i know heresy...rah rah...i now know this to be true..it was an...ahemm..uncomfortable journey at times but as i suspected..pulled kicking and screaming to the truth....source source knowledge and skill...you can ALMOST get there...thanks for having me in.
 
Fasten8 Ed, or maybe you're a sock puppet for TurkeyRanch since you both have the agenda that different crystals of LSD have different effects, when anyone that actually knows anything about LSD knows this is not true.No. Look, LSD is LSD is LSD. There's no way around it, it's really simple. If you're getting totally different effects from something, the chances are that it isn't LSD to start with but something entirely else. There's a bunch of research chemicals out there nowadays that can fit in blotter paper, 25x-NBOMe -series, DOx and Bromo-Dragonfly for example. LSD is LSD-25 is Lysergic acid diethylamide is (6aR,9R)-N,N-diethyl-7-methyl-4,6,6a,7,8,9-hexahydroindolo-[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxamide. There are no 'strains' or 'families' of (6aR,9R)-N,N-diethyl-7-methyl-4,6,6a,7,8,9-hexahydroindolo-[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxamide."Needlepoint", "fluff", "silver", "amber", "champagne" are nothing but marketing gimmicks.If you make LSD you have LSD! It doesn't matter how the crystal is formed, it won't change the fact that you have LSD! You may be confusing analogs with whatever someone told you!

Lysergic Acid 2-butylamide or; LSB is an analog of LSD as well as Lysergic Acid 3-pentylamide or; LSP also an analog of LSD as well as the optical isomers of this, Lysergic Acid 1-pentylamide.Do your homework after tripping so much so you know what your talking about. It doesn't matter if I started with erocristine or ergotamine tartrate, if my goal is to make LSD, I'm going to end up with LSD and the effects being different in your trip are going to be because no two trips are ever identical! How can anyone even say that they know for sure that the LSD they took in blind taste test one is the same or different than blind taste test two.. Even if it's the same blotter! Having taken close to 1000 hits in my life, I'm pretty sure I know what I am talking about. LSD is LSD.

This talk of 'family' is not needed and often, misinformed people make up things or are sold things and believe things entirely the opposite of reality when it comes to LSD. It's part of the nature of the game and what makes it so alluring. It also has to do with people who would follow around the grateful dead and other bands and who try to sell LSD at a higher price than their competition and make more money than the other people selling.If its a different analog, it is a different analog of LSD, and therefore: not LSD.

In the past I have laid grams of 'fluff', 'needlepoint', 'silver', 'eggshell' and has seen shades from an off-brown to a purpleish twinge, but at the end of the day, it was all either well prepared and cared for LSD, or a different analog... I don't doubt there is a batch that have all sort of hues or colours to the crystal, but I also don't doubt that its just plain old LSD. This talk reminds me of going to the toothpaste isle... there are so many different ones, ranging in price, but they all contain the same 2 or 3 active ingredients (most contain the same one)... yet, people still pay more for some even though it all does the same thing and is, in all actuality -- the same thing.

Most people who eat under 500ug of LSD @ a time are probably concentrating on what could be wrong w/the LSD IMO. i.e. worked out and back was sore from previous day, took LSD, dehydrated combined w/psychedelics leads to sore muscles from dehydration in reality, the thought that person had of those particular blotters on LSD to be that they had a heavy body feeling but good visuals, but they could take the same blotter in a blind test on a differing day, and feel different about it. Set and setting really is what is needed to be said. LSD is an incredibly powerful psychedelic, and even the most experienced users still learn about it every time.
 
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I read an interview with Professor Nichols a while back where he stated that he does, in fact, believe that there's a qualitative difference in batches of LSD.

It would be fantastic if you could link to this or even provide some information to allow others to find this interview.
 
It would be fantastic if you could link to this or even provide some information to allow others to find this interview.
I'll see if I can dig it up. I went through a phase of binge reading everything from Nichols I could find. I recall him saying that there seemed to be a qualitative difference of some kind, despite lacking any hard evidence to back up that assertion. So I suppose it won't really solve the question, but at least his opinion holds great weight.

Personally, I'm undecided regarding differences in batches. I feel like there is, but I really don't want to discount the power of suggestion, particularly when it comes to LSD.
 
I too too would love to read that.


I am 100% entertaining the idea that there is difference, boob head. Your swearing up and down it is true is all the evidence you have. Which is just the way it is, you need to look at it from my perspective and don't lump us all into the same group. I have nothing in common with the other people who happen to post here.

You clearly, obviously, have to consider the placebo effect a great deal. You need to respect the power your mind has over your perception of reality. If you can't handle that idea then I just don't think you get what LSD even does.

Apologies for stereotyping, and I do consider the placebo effect, like you said it's LSD, and it's main action is to change your perception of things. . .

All I am saying is not all LSD feels the same, and it has to be beyond placebo, batch to batch LSD is different feeling.

My my other point being there ARE different kinds of crystal, their appearance is different, that is simple chemistry (and I know a few of you have a background in that). Is one better than the other? I don't know. Is LSD purified with chromatography more pure % wise than a half ass rex attempt in a rotovap? Yes. Do people use that as a selling point? Sure, why not, wouldn't you? Does it do something different to your brain and soul? I don't really know, but it feels different to me.

And Btw, I have too much respect for this forum/community to make a sock puppet, so that dude isn't me.
 
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It's not even just the placebo effect... set and setting are impossible to keep the same every trip, too. So even with the same shit you're not guaranteed to have the same trip, doubly so with LSD.
 
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The big variable, here, is that you never know how much you're taking.
 
all I know is that the cleanest acid i've ever taken (I took it twice and it is distinctly cleaner of a come up/body load than any other LSD i've tried) was supposed to be from Europe, made for terminally ill patients who need psychedelic assisted psychotherapy to ease their fear of death. I cried tears of joy the first time I took it and had the best sex of my life the second time. I've tried plenty of other acid that was pretty clean too but something about the supposed 'medical grade' LSD was just too perfect.

my friend just gave me what he called 'mop' meaning some guy had extra LSD solution after laying a bunch of sheets so he like grabbed an extra sheet at the end and cleaned the remaining solution with it. Obviously there's going to be mad hotspots so maybe it wont be such a good reference point, but I was told that the mop contained both "family fluff" and "swiss" which I believe are the same as white fluff and needlepoint, respectively. I will report back on the qualitative differences when I get around to testing it %)
 
White Fluff refers to the potency. 90-92% pure is White Fluff. 93-95% is High White. 96-99% is Needlepoint. And those who say "LSD is either LSD or it isnt and thats it" simply havnt tried enough batches of LSD. There is a HUGE difference between LSD batches. Some are on edge and are twitchy with the leg, usually the lower quality. Higher quality is truly a magical thing....

For example at an underground festival I went to, familys were everywhere and there were at least 5 different batches of very high quality LSD that all had slightly different mind feelings and visual characteristics. Obviously still the "LSD" feeling (those who know what im talking about will know) but even Rober Hunter said, "There is no such thing as bad LSD. Only poorly made LSD"
 
all I know is that the cleanest acid i've ever taken (I took it twice and it is distinctly cleaner of a come up/body load than any other LSD i've tried) was supposed to be from Europe, made for terminally ill patients who need psychedelic assisted psychotherapy to ease their fear of death. I cried tears of joy the first time I took it and had the best sex of my life the second time. I've tried plenty of other acid that was pretty clean too but something about the supposed 'medical grade' LSD was just too perfect.

my friend just gave me what he called 'mop' meaning some guy had extra LSD solution after laying a bunch of sheets so he like grabbed an extra sheet at the end and cleaned the remaining solution with it. Obviously there's going to be mad hotspots so maybe it wont be such a good reference point, but I was told that the mop contained both "family fluff" and "swiss" which I believe are the same as white fluff and needlepoint, respectively. I will report back on the qualitative differences when I get around to testing it %)

Least body effects I've ever had came from canadian high purity L, worst from czech silver. Have access to family fluff, canadian, and European high purity (95% by chem test). will report on those if I get the chance

I too too would love to read that.




Apologies for stereotyping, and I do consider the placebo effect, like you said it's LSD, and it's main action is to change your perception of things. . .

All I am saying is not all LSD feels the same, and it has to be beyond placebo, batch to batch LSD is different feeling.

My my other point being there ARE different kinds of crystal, their appearance is different, that is simple chemistry (and I know a few of you have a background in that). Is one better than the other? I don't know. Is LSD purified with chromatography more pure % wise than a half ass rex attempt in a rotovap? Yes. Do people use that as a selling point? Sure, why not, wouldn't you? Does it do something different to your brain and soul? I don't really know, but it feels different to me.

And Btw, I have too much respect for this forum/community to make a sock puppet, so that dude isn't me.

White Fluff refers to the potency. 90-92% pure is White Fluff. 93-95% is High White. 96-99% is Needlepoint. And those who say "LSD is either LSD or it isnt and thats it" simply havnt tried enough batches of LSD. There is a HUGE difference between LSD batches. Some are on edge and are twitchy with the leg, usually the lower quality. Higher quality is truly a magical thing....

For example at an underground festival I went to, familys were everywhere and there were at least 5 different batches of very high quality LSD that all had slightly different mind feelings and visual characteristics. Obviously still the "LSD" feeling (those who know what im talking about will know) but even Rober Hunter said, "There is no such thing as bad LSD. Only poorly made LSD"

It's all the same drug. If you think you're getting other effects from different "types" of LSD then it's just the placebo effect. Or it's because everytime you take LSD you're going to have a new experience and this has to do with set/setting, your mindstate, and other factors. Dosage of the drug also is a factor; but if you've ever taken a high dose of LSD there's a point where dosage doesn't really matter, and even if you take more LSD it's not going to effect your experience of the drug.

I've taken all different "types" of LSD from all different colors of crystals and it's all just the same drug.

"Family" just consists of lot trash wooks who do nothing but follow the grateful dead around or now Furthur, and sell drugs. For them claiming that certain types of LSD are more potent because of the crystal has to do with getting other people to buy their LSD, instead of having the person who is hypothetically buying it go somewhere else and give them their money.

It was Wavy Gravy who said this about acid. He said this about the infamous "bad brown acid" at Woodstock, and he and Robert Hunter as well as members of the grateful dead are not experts on LSD.
 
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