MAPS Daily DXM as a MAPS study

tantric

tantric

Bluelighter
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The pharmaceutical industry is developing new NMDA-ligand drugs as fast-acting anti-depressents. But no one will ever test DXM for this, because it's generic and OTC. My ancedotal experience is that the new polystirex DXM is fantastic at 100mg/day. I would also suggest such a study helping people recover from addiction, as an alternative to methadone. The plus on this is that it's legal and the potential for doing good is huge. The science sexy part is that after you do the study, you can test test relationship between CYP2D6 metabolizers and the results. Just a thought.
 
I would rather MAPS study MXE, starting with MXE-assisted therapy sessions guided by a counselor. A few sessions a month to help treat depression, addictions and potentially other disorders. Then work towards studies that follow low-dose daily MXE use for the same type of patients.
 
Any NMDA agontist would work - but DXM is legal and OTC, thus less of a problem. Does MXW work better? Besides, the polystirex formulation of DXM is ideal.
 
I would like to add that if this was ever a possibility than DXM would be favorable. MXE is such a young compound nothing about its long-term effects are known. Whereas DXM has a long history (not just with abuse) and its contraindications are very well known. With MXE we maybe know a little bit about its pharmacological profile but what else? If online forums like these didn't exist than everybody would know far less about MXE than they do now.

As far as my opinion on the study goes, I am all for a study to improve the area of anti-depressants. I feel the ones we have now are questionable in efficacy IME.

The only thing about DXM is if you dose frequently, even at low doses, its levels will build up, and if you are a poor metabolizer via CYP2D6 than it will create more complications. If DXM serum levels build up than it alters the ratio of DXM: DXO and prolonged use of DXM starts to reach away from NMDA and touch Sigma and that's where things can have an opposite desired result. I have experienced the effects of Sigma activation and it was identical to being in a schizophrenic psychosis IME. I think a better study would be the relation between Sigma and psychosis. Most neuroleptics target dopamine and serotonin. I'm skeptical those are the only things responsible for these psychotic conditions.
 
Actually there is already a company called Avanir (trades as AVNR on the US exchange called NASDAQ) which sells a combination of DXM & quinidine ("NUEDEXTA") for pseudobulbar affect which is indicated for daily dosing. They are developing it for a variety of other neurologic indications as well. :)
 
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DXM is not a particularly good candidate compound because it is relatively nonselective in its activity, exerting sigma-agonism and SNRI-effects, for example. While this could be desirable in some patients, it tends to be more impairing at doses equi-effective as other compounds, and thus is likely to be worse tolerated. Right now, the race is on to find effective glutamanergic compounds that are less impairing than other dissociatives. There has also already been research into DXM recruited for other purposes, for example combating ischemic cascades following strokes, so I don't think that it is likely to be left overlooked just because it is unpatentable.

ebola
 
I guess there's much more to be found in arylcyclohexanamines. I think that there might be a neat way to make them longer-lasting, even twice-a-day dosing would be a winner.
 
SAR wise, there's already a tremendous 'variation space' for duration, from PCP to ketamine. It's not unlikely that there will be compounds of duration in between the two, but who knows if they'll have desirable properties in general (my best guess would be high selectivity for NMDA, a la ketamine, but not generative of harmful metabolites).

ebola
 
tantric said:
My ancedotal experience is that the new polystirex DXM is fantastic at 100mg/day. I would also suggest such a study helping people recover from addiction, as an alternative to methadone.
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Horrible information, there is a ton of info on daily DXM administration here on blue light, I suggest you read up a little.
DXM could and will never replace Methadone or Sub treatment.

It doesn't hurt to throw an opinion out but this would be a waste of time same with the MXE statement below.

MAPS HAS MORE IMPORTANT RESEARCH ON THERE PLATE AND THEY HAVE FOR YEARS!!!

ebola? said:
DXM is not a particularly good candidate compound because it is relatively nonselective in its activity, exerting sigma-agonism and SNRI-effects, for example. While this could be desirable in some patients, it tends to be more impairing at doses equi-effective as other compounds, and thus is likely to be worse tolerated. Right now, the race is on to find effective glutamanergic compounds that are less impairing than other dissociatives. There has also already been research into DXM recruited for other purposes, for example combating ischemic cascades following strokes, so I don't think that it is likely to be left overlooked just because it is unpatentable.

ebola
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Answer = In depth Phencyclidine research, it was on the market once and I hope to see it again, however sessions IMO should remain under supervised care.
 
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Ebola's point is taken. How does he...

Anyways, it is probably not safe to take chronically unless the dose is pretty low.
 
Are there any scientific publications on daily DXM use? I would guess if the positives outweighed the negatives it would already be implemented in the world of medicine as a daily oral medication
 
I have a theory as to why DXM is better than MXE or even more specific nmda antagonists for (opiate addiction). Its known that ibogaine can attenuate or eliminate an opiate addiction, I think that the leading ibogaine researcher (glick) believes that it has alot to do with ibogaines (18-MC more specificially) action at the alpha3beta4 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. DXM exhibits the same antagonism at this receptor. Bupropion (often prescribed for addiction) also shares this activity, so does methadone.

Its not a matter of nmda antagonism being the major player in DXM's use in treating opiate addiction. MXE and ketamine are pretty much useless in my opinion for this purpose, sure they potentiate opiates if they are present, but when it comes to having zero opiates present and needing something that works, other pharmacological action is needed.
 
tantric said:
The pharmaceutical industry is developing new NMDA-ligand drugs as fast-acting anti-depressents. But no one will ever test DXM for this, because it's generic and OTC. My ancedotal experience is that the new polystirex DXM is fantastic at 100mg/day. I would also suggest such a study helping people recover from addiction, as an alternative to methadone. The plus on this is that it's legal and the potential for doing good is huge. The science sexy part is that after you do the study, you can test test relationship between CYP2D6 metabolizers and the results. Just a thought.
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How long would someone take the dxm daily to recover from the addiction?
 
DXM works pretty much just the same as ibogaine. You must stop ALL drugs and eat right - go into hard withdrawal. Then take about 200mg of DXM and trip balls. It's NOT fun - your god will come and have words with you. Then it's over. La.

And yeah, I've done it withdrawing from methadone and nicotine.

[edit, to tell more]

I just had to drive my sister to the methadone clinic, 'cause she's sick. When she came out, she took her wafer but choked on it. I helped her scrape it up and she sucked it off my fingers. *That* is the monster of addiction - the same one I faced in spiritual combat, and I kicked it's mother fucking ass. Now it's my bitch. My sister, she wants to be an addict. Most people do, cause most people are - they're addicted to junk food. DXM is actually better than ibogaine, but it frees you from *all* addictions - the only addiction, to dopamine. You have to quit junk, junk food, porn, junk life, everything and be in hard core withdrawal, then take about 200mg. Then you'll fall on the floor and flop like a fish as your god comes and expresses its displeasure with your life choices, and then forgives and cures you. It's *intense*. Then it's up to you. You'll trip ball for 8hrs, then it's like a new world. You are *clean* and you feel everything. Serotonin is singing in your mind with joy and life. So long as you stay clean, you'll be on a low grade MDMA trip for about a month, then it fades off, though it'll always be with you. Your life is in your hands - are you ready for that?
 
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tantric said:
DXM works pretty much just the same as ibogaine. You must stop ALL drugs and eat right - go into hard withdrawal. Then take about 200mg of DXM and trip balls. It's NOT fun - your god will come and have words with you. Then it's over. La.

And yeah, I've done it withdrawing from methadone and nicotine.

[edit, to tell more]

I just had to drive my sister to the methadone clinic, 'cause she's sick. When she came out, she took her wafer but choked on it. I helped her scrape it up and she sucked it off my fingers. *That* is the monster of addiction - the same one I faced in spiritual combat, and I kicked it's mother fucking ass. Now it's my bitch. My sister, she wants to be an addict. Most people do, cause most people are - they're addicted to junk food. DXM is actually better than ibogaine, but it frees you from *all* addictions - the only addiction, to dopamine. You have to quit junk, junk food, porn, junk life, everything and be in hard core withdrawal, then take about 200mg. Then you'll fall on the floor and flop like a fish as your god comes and expresses its displeasure with your life choices, and then forgives and cures you. It's *intense*. Then it's up to you. You'll trip ball for 8hrs, then it's like a new world. You are *clean* and you feel everything. Serotonin is singing in your mind with joy and life. So long as you stay clean, you'll be on a low grade MDMA trip for about a month, then it fades off, though it'll always be with you. Your life is in your hands - are you ready for that?
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200 milligrams? I would feel absolutely nothing off that low of a dose.
 
You would in withdrawal, when your brain stops breaking down monoamines - it's like taking it with an MAO-I
 
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