Ultra low dose Naltrexone for opiate withdrawal

[bugs2013]

Hello. I am excited to have found a home here I hope. I am interested in using ultra low dose naltrexone to lower tolerance and ultimately come off this nasty Kratom addiction I have obtained. I have 50mg tablets of Naltrexone and without a compounding pharmacy, I am wondering if anyone can tell me how I can easily get this down to the 10-12 micrograms that I need. Any help is greatly appreciated!

B

 

[shiverz]

A lot of people swear by naltrexone, I just wish swim would of stuck to them after tapering down and coming off my subby script but alas swim thought I cant be bothered going back to my pick up my repeat script and a few benzos later though an opiate dable couldnt do any harm, Oh how wrong swim was.

Anyway good luck mate. Im not experienced with kratom but its an opiate so swim knows how horrible the WDs can be so best of luck YOU can do it, Stay focused, stay positive and youll crack it.

 

[bugs2013]

Hey Shiverz, thanks for the encouragement. I thought Kratom was a 'natural' way to come off my opiate addiction. Boy how I was wrong. After tapering, the depression and malaise sets in big time. The low dose naltrexone theory on 'restarting' endorphins and generating new opiate receptors is intriguing, again, in theory. I am wondering if anyone found that it helped their withdrawal and subsquent depression?

 

[thebutcher]

My 2 cents

I would like to touch on something you said, about using kratom to get off your opiate addiction. Everyone is looking for an easy way out of opiate addiction because the withdrawals are scary and the paws leave you depressed and lost of any hope that your life will be whole again without drugs. You used the kratom to get off the opiates and look how it turned out, so now you are looking at naltrexone as an easy fix and expecting something better.

There is truly only one way out of opiate addiction and that is to go through withdrawal free of any opiates or opiate maintenance. The severe wds can be made much easier with a medical detox but If it wasnt for the pain and relearning how to function and create healthy new outlets and honestly really just getting to the core of why you are addicted then you will be stuck feeling empty. I have taken naltrexone it leaves a black hole in your brain and natural endorphins will not flow which is what your body craves in order to be happy. The body is capable of anything when diet and excercise are a daily part of your life.

 

[bugs2013]

Totally agree on the diet and exercise. If there is a non-addictive medication to help someone along, it makes sense to investigate it. And the hundreds of accounts of low dose naltrexone helping are out there. And you used naltrexone so you obviously had the same thought at some point. Sounds like you have formed a different opinion now which is totally cool. And ultimately, maybe you are right.

Curious, would you mind sharing your naltrexone experience in a little detail?
Thanks

and btw, butcher, I am not looking for an easy fix so please dont tell me what you feel my intentions are. I know there will be a lot of work ahead.

 

[bronson]

First up, @ shiverz - we don't use SWIM or other self avoidance terms here at bluelight, as they make posts harder to read, and offer no legal protection. This can be seen in the BLUA found in my signature below. Just a heads up, as you're likely to have it pointed out to you in a less friendly tone otherwise.

With that NMI --> OD

 

[cbean]

I've been on Naltrexone for about 2 years. I have not noticed it do anything for reducing my heroin cravings, however, my friends and I discovered during my first relapse that Naltrexone (whether intentionally or non-intentionally) blocks the physical effects of heroin. No rush, no high- nothing. No matter how much I did, I couldn't get high. We realized it was the Naltrexone and about a week after I stopped taking it, the heroin worked again. My APRN prescribes it to me to reduce heroin cravings, but honestly, like I said before- I haven't experienced it to do that. I've had long periods of clean time (12 months). What I take the Naltrexone for now is so that I cannot get high off opiates if I ended up wanting to use them. The only problem with this method is that I need to take my pills every day, and I can easily stop taking them when I want to be able to use again and not tell a soul I stopped. I've been considering talking to my APRN about switching to the shot version, which lasts a month. By doing this, as long as a person accompanies me to get the shot once a month, it will do a much more effective job of avoiding relapse. Sorry if this strayed off topic, I saw Naltrexone in the title and had to read this, I'm the only person out of all the users I know/knew that has ever been prescribed it or uses it.

Also, Naltrexone does not help with withdrawal, it does not do anything to mask the pain.

I agree that cold turkey withdrawal is the best way for several reasons- you have the guaranteed outcome of not simply becoming addicted or dependent on something else, and the unpleasantness of the withdrawal is a motivator and reminds me why I do not want to go back to using. In my opinion, it is worth it to go through with it (for 3 days, a week- however long it lasts for you) than to detox with the aid of suboxone or methadone or anything else

Best of luck with everything!

 

[Crazyeighths]

The naltrexone theory is intriguing, but I'd take a long and hard look into what information is out there (and what kind of agenda the publisher of said information may be working on). And I don't think butch was trying to put words in your mouth, but you won't have to hang out here long to realize that he's right (realize he was speaking in third person when referencing peoples' tendency to want a quick fix- but this is true of all humans, particularly us Western-civilised) about people wanting an easy way out. Your depression isn't really from the Kratom, per se. That depression is going to be sitting around the corner no matter what drugs you may choose to stick in the way. I, for instance, am dependent upon opiates in the form of heroin addiction. The same depression you will struggle with coming off of the Kratom, I will also experience if I come off of heroin. It's not a matter of the substance but rather that your brain and its receptors have been so over-saturated with dopamine, serotonin, etc. that it will simply take awhile for everything to level back out.

 

[adder]

Different sodium indices (i.e. different decreases in binding of an opioid compound when sodium ions are present) for agonists, antagonists, and dualists suggest that there are different binding sites for opioid agonists and antagonists (I'm talking now strictly about mu-opioid receptors). Naltrexone is N-cyclopropylmethylnoroxymorphone. N-cyclopropylmethyl analogues of their N-methyl counterparts are known to be mixed agonist-antagonists (e.g. cyclorphan). So the whole ultra low-dose naltrexone theory is simply based on that while strongly binding to the "antagonist" site (probably some allosteric site), naltrexone also has some slight agonist properties. However, mixed agonist-antagonists don't stop withdrawal symptoms at all in those who are dependent on agonists. You need at least a partial agonist like buprenorphine to stop withdrawal symptoms, but then you must be abstinent for some time, otherwise it will also precipitate withdrawal just like an antagonist or mixed agonist-antagonist.

If the ultra low-dose naltrexone theory is true, then it would probably work this way: you antagonize your opioid receptors for some time, making endogenous opioids unable to produce agonist effects, then you stop the antagonist, and your receptors should be more sensitive then to endogenous opioids (and also externally delivered agonists). But I can't see this happening properly in a person who starts taking a blocker being fresh from detox when receptors are desensitised from large amounts of externally delivered agonist opioids. When you're dependent on opioids and then stop taking them, you start suffering from hyperalgesia, you're more sensitive to pain because your endogenous opioid systems don't work as in healthy individuals. Why would one diminish endogenous opioids binding in such a situation? To experience more pain?

Anyway, neither mixed agonist-antagonists nor partial agonists will erase your mental cravings. Definitely taking buprenorphine I feel less mental cravings than when I was experiencing withdrawal from an agonist, but they're still there and it's not something I can ignore. It torments all the time.

PS. Also, remember that the stronger agonist N-methyl compound is, the stronger antagonist N-allyl, N-CPM compound or whatever is, e.g. naloxone is a more potent antagonist than nalorphine (and oxymorphone is more potent agonist than morphine).