Bluelight

Thread: The Big & Dandy βK-2C-B Thread - Part 1

Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 329
  1. Collapse Details
    The Big & Dandy βK-2C-B Thread - Part 1 
    #1
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    55
    Bluelight
    Welcome to the βK-2C-B (bk-2C-B) Thread


    Wikipedia: Bk-2C-B

    (1-(4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)-2-aminoethan-1-one)

    Marquis reagent test result


    [original post:]

    In these times of ketones, I wondered if anyone had tried bk-2cb?
    I think is correct name is 2-amino-1-(4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethan-1-one, right? I cann't find any informations on this molecule!
    I think it can be very psychoactive. Moreover, as the 2c-b is illegal, Rc's vendors could used bk-2cb as an alternative "legal"! But I don't see things like this... What is the reason?

    And, if someone have informations...

    Thanks for you answers!
    Hope I don't say stupids things... And sorry for my poor english!
    Last edited by Transform; 04-11-2013 at 01:14. Reason: wiki link
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Na-uhhh, it forms a dimer with itself because the amine is unprotected - it reacts with the ketone on another molecule of it's own type.
    Sorry. (otherwise yeah it'd probably be active)

    (This is why bk-MDMA can exist, because it's a secondary amine, but bk-MDA can't, because it's a primary amine.)
    (And no, you can't just methylate the amine to get around this because the N-methyl derivs of PEA psychedelics are either very low potency or inactive. Pity, really...)
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Bluelighter IGNVS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    i live in fun
    Posts
    3,506
    "it reacts with the ketone on another molecule of it's own type."
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Its totally useless. Not that I know or anything...
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    dimerisation is favored under alkaline conditions. cathinone seems to be stable in living catha edulis but is rapidly reduced to cathine and norephedrine after the plant is harvested.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    What does it dimerise to that can't be hydrolysed back? Am i being stupid?

    BOB does sound good tho.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    I believe izo is right.
    Yeah ok so it CAN exist the problem is that the synthesis and isolation is difficult because as soon as you get a >7 pH you start to form the dimer because the amine is no longer protonated as a salt, so in this case you would get 2,5-bis(4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)pyrazine I think. I'm not entirely sure of the dimerisation mechanism, I think the ketone groups leave, and you get the aromatic pyrazine ring formed as a results which is a NON-REVERSIBLE reaction.
    So yes it can be made but it's difficult to keep stable, you'd end up with a soup of hard to seperate product, which only gets worse every time you try and purify it (because you'd want to A/B it to do so, which just forms more dimer...)
    If you could seperate it cleanly and quckly, and form the HCl salt, and then keep it in a tightly sealed container, it would be okay. Whether this is too much hassle is up to you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dimer.jpg 
Views:	316 
Size:	5.7 KB 
ID:	5173  
    Last edited by MattPsy; 17-12-2007 at 00:25.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    I guess it forms the bis-imine dimer which oxidises to give the stable aromatic ring. Could make it from an acid labile n-protected precursor then i guess.

    Curious to see if fastandbulbous' suggestion of a beta methylene works.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    If it forms the imine-dimer isn't that reversible? It just happens to form a more stable product because of the symmetry/ring formation. I'm not sure exactly how the conjugated ring would form. This is the product I am seeing, and I think it would be reversible.


    Last edited by Metcalf; 17-12-2007 at 00:51.
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Yeah formation of the imine dimer is reversible, however loss of two protons (not sure of the mechanism, maybe start with a kinda enolate fromation) gives a stable aromatic compound, so eventually given the right (or wrong) conditions it will be the only product
    Reply With Quote
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Semi Retired
    Posts
    11,887
    The place to look is Khat. Khat produces a beta-keto phenethylamine (cathinone). How does it exist? Do other alkaloids or compounds keep it from dimerisation?

    If cathinone can exist, so can the beta-keto-2Cs. Plus, I've read Shulgin spoke of trying them at the 2006 Basil conference and confirmed they were active.
    Reply With Quote
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    Maybe 'cause it's not in an aqueous environment. I also suspect the dimer is in an equilibrium with the non-cyclic form.
    For sure, in Khat, cathinone is present as it's free base, not as a salt. So there is something keeping it from dimerising.
    (As for the reversibility of it, yeah imine formation should normally be reversible but the aromatic system formed here should be quite stable so it's formation is favored - this is what makes me think there will be an equilibrium involved)
    Reply With Quote
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Yeah it will be in equilibrium up till imine formation, formation of the aromatic ring tho is formally an oxidation (hydride has to be lost) so is irreversible except in the presence of strong reducing agents. For the imine, more water would, i would think shift equilibrium to the ketone
    Reply With Quote
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Indeed, though i'm not a chemistry-g33k. It does seem very complex to get there or maybe impossible..

    Thanks for bringing an old and interesting thread back to life.

    //blazR
    Reply With Quote
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Bluelighter ungelesene_bettlek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    "Es war in Wien, war Vienna, wo er alles tat..."
    Posts
    815
    but cathinone is instable, and I always thought this was because it is a primary amine? and as far as I know, it decomposes to cathine and norephedrine, not some dimer?

    what if one would attach a hydroxy group to the nitrous? according to shulign, N-OH phenethylamines are pretty much equivalent in action to their counterparts without the OH group. would the hydroxylation protect beta-keton-phenethylamines from being instabile?
    Reply With Quote
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    OH groups readily fall off from phenethylamines. See the PiHKAL entry on FLEA. There's a reason it hasn't been out as an RC. (It'd be pretty much identical to MDMA...)
    Reply With Quote
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    Bluelighter ungelesene_bettlek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    "Es war in Wien, war Vienna, wo er alles tat..."
    Posts
    815
    Quote Originally Posted by stom10 View Post
    OH groups readily fall off from phenethylamines.
    as far as I know, this is only speculation by shulgin. is there hard evidence for this yet?
    Reply With Quote
     

  18. Collapse Details
    The Small & Handy βK-2C-B (bk-2C-B) Thread 
    #18
    Bluelight
    I was lucky enough to try this compound some months ago. I was impressed even though my efforts were as usual an investigation into the threshold effects. These came on at the 50 - 60mg area but it's said that 100mg or more is needed for a proper trip. My doses were small, through the day but the effects were very similar to that which I have enjoyed on low doses of other similar duration 2c-xx's.

    I havent found any molecule pics yet but I'll edit this when I do!
    [mod edit: pic added but moved to OP]
    Last edited by Si Ingwe; 28-09-2013 at 20:38.
    Reply With Quote
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    Wiki
    Solipsis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,896
    Interesting. Added structural formula and edited TT to make it the same as others, but I removed the chemical formula name from the TT because it was incorrect (missing the amine part, the NH2 visible on the right, which is definitely a part of 2C-B). Until I can someone to confirm that my suggestion "(1-(4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl))-2-aminoethan-1-one" is IUPAC correct or generally okay let's leave it out of the TT. Maybe the amino comes first, since that is alphabetical.

    Let's hope it grows into a B&D indeed because that might imply some form of success, and who doesn't like a decent chem? If it is so weak though, it had better be worth it - otherwise it would not be economical and merely retains novelty value.
    Last edited by Solipsis; 27-09-2013 at 18:25.
    Please start at the Beginners FAQ - Read the PD Rules and BLUA - Use the Psychedelic Index and/or the advanced search engine
    Reply With Quote
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    Bluelighter Rorthron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Land of Midnight
    Posts
    247
    would a alpha-methylation increase the potency? like a possible 2BetaK-DOB?
    Reply With Quote
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    Thanks Solipsis!

    Yeah, I expect big-ish things for this once word starts to spread. It is most definitely about 10 times weaker than it's parent compound but, without going into any detail, works out reasonably good value at the moment & will probably get cheaper.

    I wrote up a proper report when I trialed this but I can't find it, yet...
    Reply With Quote
     

  22. Collapse Details
     
    #22
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    Wiki
    Solipsis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,896
    It's actually surprising you got an effect, because bk-PEA's would probably dimerize like cathinones, and is therefore unstable:

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/attachmen...8&d=1141845150

    I guess that this BK-2C-B, at least the non-dimerized part, would partially metabolize to the compound BOB (the bromo analogue of BOD) which does not dimerize.
    But the extent to which a product is dimerized could highly impact the part that is free to turn into BOB and to act, so I foresee dosage and effect inconsistencies which makes this series pretty unfavorable.

    More on such beta-ketones in this ADD thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/2...ketone-analogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorthron View Post
    would a alpha-methylation increase the potency? like a possible 2BetaK-DOB?
    Not sure, when I return home later this evening I will have a look-see in the Shulgin Index book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Si Ingwe View Post
    Thanks Solipsis!

    Yeah, I expect big-ish things for this once word starts to spread. It is most definitely about 10 times weaker than it's parent compound but, without going into any detail, works out reasonably good value at the moment & will probably get cheaper.

    I wrote up a proper report when I trialed this but I can't find it, yet...
    A report would be most helpful! Should be one of the first AFAIK.
    Last edited by Solipsis; 27-09-2013 at 18:50.
    Please start at the Beginners FAQ - Read the PD Rules and BLUA - Use the Psychedelic Index and/or the advanced search engine
    Reply With Quote
     

  23. Collapse Details
     
    #23
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    Drug Studies
    Jesusgreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    4,522
    I've been able to try this at 111mg.

    Very pleasant, and the experience itself is hard to tell apart from 2C-B. I actually liked the experience more than 2C-B as I was in even more control than with 2C-B itself, and incredibly blissful.

    The trip lasted longer than 2C-B for me, about 11-12 hours total from taking my dose to being baseline again, whereas 2C-B is more like 5-7.

    As far as time frames go, for me I had first alerts some time around 10-15 minutes after dosing, was fully tripping within about 60-90 minutes, and I reached complete peak around 4-5 hours in, then stayed there for the next 3-4 hours, then began a gradual descent.

    For me there was a DOx like "comedown" with this, in the sense that the last few hours I was left with a lot of muscle tension and too stimulated to sleep, while still being mentally tired and wanting to be able to sleep already. I'd say it was worse for me in this respect than DOB or DOC were, but this was only present during the last 2-3 hours of the trip, and I didn't notice any muscle tension or bodyload of any sort during the rest of the trip.

    If I'm very well rested or have a couple of beers or a benzo for the tail end of the trip then I'd pick bk-2C-B over 2C-B in most cases, if not or if I was pressed for time it'd be a harder choice and I may lean towards 2C-B.

    I have to say I very much disagree with it being 10x less potent than 2C-B though based on my experience. I found 111mg of bk-2C-B to be similar potency to 40mg of 2C-B. I think maybe at smaller doses like 80-90mg yeah it might be equipotent to 8-9mg of 2C-B, but as the dose rises it looks like there's a steep dose response curve and the difference in potency quickly becomes a lot less. I certainly don't think for example that doses of 300mg+ would be even remotely close to reasonable with this one, whereas I'd be more than happy to take 50 or even 60mg+ 2C-B.

    That said it may be as Solipsis suggested, that potency will vary quite a bit. Even if this is the case I would advise being careful with the dose. I think post allergy test, 70-80mg would be a good range for people just wishing to dip their toes in, then more like 90-100mg for a standard experience, and 110-130mg for a notably stronger one. If you find it's not enough then increase as necessary.

    I also wrote a report but it's very messy and I stopped writing it at 8 hours in so I'll have to give it a read through and clean up but I should get it up some point soon.
    Last edited by Jesusgreen; 28-09-2013 at 01:45. Reason: More info

    (Psychedelic Drugs: Rules - Index) (Drug Studies: Rules - Guide for Researchers)
    Use the Search function. Report rule breaches with the button to the top right of a post.
    Reply With Quote
     

  24. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    Bluelighter EarthBounded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Right between the Solar Plexus and Heart Chakras Where Higgs particles collide and color is formed
    Posts
    897
    Someone please tell me why on earth they added a beta ketone structure to 2C-B?!?! Is it just to evade prosecution?
    Reply With Quote
     

  25. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Bluelighter .:Holy::Toast:.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    The Land Of Ooo
    Posts
    2,267
    I don't care but if it means a drop in price as opposed to illegal 2c-b then I'm down 200%
    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •