Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

[Not Again]

Exactly the way is was meant to be used? Lets just say its one of the ways the medication can be used to help with opiate addiction. It is the quickest way to get clean of opiates...for the time being. But things needs to be looked at in the big picture. You have to ask, is this the best strategy to not only get clean but to stay clean?

Its suppose really a matter of a bevy of factor: habit, mental fortitude, personal life, preference, etc. There are plenty of people who will disagree that is the best way to use it. Many doctors and addiction specialists will argue using it in that manner results in relapse more often than other methods. For addicts who have cold turkeyed many times only to eventually relapse, using suboxone in that way is absolutely no better for their long term success. And unless you have a huge habit or you have tried cold turkeying 2+ times with no luck or an eventual relapse, then I don't understand why you would be resorting to suboxone already.

I believe for me it was exactly the way it should have been used. I've done cold turkey and obviously relapsed. This taper program made me work harder and do things I didn't want to do. 30 days on taper program, having to go almost every day to this place and wait for up to 3 hours sometimes 4 hours. Shity this was the best for me. I worked so hard I will never forget it. If I do all I have to do is read my posts here.

In fact there is no option at this rehab for anything other than a rapid taper. It's a very large place and deals with all chemical dependency, I even saw someone there for pot????? When I brought up maintenance to them and why they don't do it. Everyones response was, if your not on it (sub)when you come in, you will use it they way it's supposed to be used.

I've read some where that it was created to get you off opiates as painless as possible.(I'm too tired to look for a citation.) I think the uses today have grown to what the people using it have done with it,Not to mention the DR's who want to keep getting paid.
I'm glad something like this exists for the people that need it long term, though.

The DR's over prescribed it, couldn't get people off it and it became what it is now. So I would say it was used for it's intended purpose.

Anyways.

I had a good day. Made it thought an entire Disney on ice show ( little girl is almost 3) and a long ass drive to get there.I had drive I had go. Until I got home, soon as I opened the door I got immediately tired and didn't want to do anything.

Can't complain other than stomach issues.

 

[for a girl]

This is probably a relatively easy question but I just want to be sure before I waste anything else.
I've taken suboxone film 8-16mg everyday for about four months.

i stopped taking my full dose at the beginning of this week and skipping days between doses. my last dose was ~4mg.
I happened to get some 10mg hydrocodone, which really isn't much to get excited for and i wish they were at least oxys, but fuck. i haven't been high in forever.
Last night I took 20mg, today i've taken 40mg, I barely feel a thing and I have a god damn headache.
When should I take the pills so I don't waste anymore? I would wait until I go into initial suboxone withdrawal but I can't tell if the amount of hydro i've taken will prevent that or what. Any advice would help, thanks.

 

[Not Again]

This is probably a relatively easy question but I just want to be sure before I waste anything else.
I've taken suboxone film 8-16mg everyday for about four months.

i stopped taking my full dose at the beginning of this week and skipping days between doses. my last dose was ~4mg.
I happened to get some 10mg hydrocodone, which really isn't much to get excited for and i wish they were at least oxys, but fuck. i haven't been high in forever.
Last night I took 20mg, today i've taken 40mg, I barely feel a thing and I have a god damn headache.
When should I take the pills so I don't waste anymore? I would wait until I go into initial suboxone withdrawal but I can't tell if the amount of hydro i've taken will prevent that or what. Any advice would help, thanks.

Hello,

With taking that much sub you'd need a truck load of hydro to do it. I'm to tired to find exactly what it is but sub is something like 40 X stronger than hydro.So When you take 16 mg sub it loosely translates into 600mg hydro.

So your tolerance could be as high as that .. Now don't go trying 600 mg hydro ever ever ever. Disclaimer: I really have no idea where your individual tolerance is. I'm using this as an example.

So using sub for 4 months has put your tolerance quite a bit higher than it was before sub.

Also mind the apap in the norcos. Daly limit is 4g or 4000mg. that's approx 12 norco 10/325. I should also say that you should not take all of the apap recommended at one day, it's meant to be distributed through out the day.

So in a nut shell,hydro is useless.

Unless you get a shitload and CWE them(cold water extract gets the apap out or most of it)

Now, on something else. Sub is an opiate blocker. So no matter what you do nothing will work for a few days, seeing you've been taking sub for 4 months. There is a lot stacked in your system.

So sorry to say getting high isn't in your future ATM.

EDIT: I started thinking. You tried 20 mg hydro and 40 mg hydro. If that was working before sub, I hate to say someone did something wrong. No body should be prescribed sub for a 40 mg hydro thing.

That's scary. Please tell me you weren't getting high off 40 mg hydro before sub?

 

[Eveleivibe]

I agree 40mg hydro is extremely low to be prescribed suboxone. Was that a mis-type? (Sorry my brain is scrubled been working on my lit review n its 1 am) x

PS: suboxone has saved my life not only in the literal sense (liver would be mincemint by now , would have ODd etc) but would psychologically. Short term tapers are good for some people ie not again. But as for myself I tried cold turkey, tapering I was suicidal, like a piece of stone no motivation, my appearance n hygeine went to pot, scared the fk out of me plus I was not ready. I felt like I was groeving the loss of a loved one, the world stopped working n I was majorly depressed.

Now I 've stanlised on suboxone I am slowly picking up the pieces of my life. I'm losing weight, exercising, have goals etc (sorry think I wrote this awhile back but was a different discussion). I'd rather be on some stable medication than the way I was any day of the week buying anything online not knowing whether it was fakes or if something had been put on it. I didn't even care if I died that's how messed up I was.

When I went into withdrawal i was not communicating with my child I lost it tell me is that fair on a little one to have a mam depressed, suicidal, unmotivated. Now I play n laugh with her, read with her, exercise with her at times, take her out to soft play areas , teach her things. She 's happy going to school clean n happy not having a mam whos too weak n zapped of energy to get off the couch.

I wouldnt wish that crap on my worst enemy. I tried, I tried damn hard so I chose suboxone, haters or not, I don't regret it. I made the right choice for me n my daughter.

 

[Not Again]

I agree 40mg hydro is extremely low to be prescribed suboxone. Was that a mis-type?

I hope so.

. I tried, I tried damn hard so I chose suboxone, haters or not, I don't regret it. I made the right choice for me n my daughter.

I haven't seen haters yet. I know it works for the people that need it. I just took it for the past month. Regardless of the short vs long term thing. It got me off 400mg oxy a day. Thats like 4000mg codeine. Holy crap I guess that # and went searching and I was right on.
http://globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi
Equivalent dose for opiate selected in Step 4 above: 4000.00 mg

I'm sure you were no where near that. So bear with me. I'm not saying any ones drug can beat up the other. What I'm getting at is at the large amount of oxy and suboxone saved me and got me off them and roughly a month later I'm opiate free.

So I'm a firm believer in suboxone. I never experienced it long term, but I'm sure the long timers will attest to it being good for them, while you will find some long timers that hate it and wish they could be off of it.

Without Suboxone, how the hell would I have stopped 400mg oxycodone ir. I tried and tried and tried. I fooled myself thinking I was tapering one day only to do extra the next day. Try getting 240 ( 30 mg) from the Dr and still having to source hydro and more oxy to make the month. Yeah bad.

Long term will keep you from the full antagonist, but it's harder to stop suboxone after you've been on it a long time.

While searching recently I was reading something that struck me as weird. I read suboxone rots teeth. see here pages and pages about it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sub...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

Suboxone is like any other method of getting clean.. it can work great, or fail miserably.. it all depends on how much you personally want to get clean, and if you really take the steps to get there. Like anything else, suboxone is just a tool one can use to help them get on the right path.

In the end, you still need to work out for yourself why it is you use, and find the strength and ability to stay clean.

 

[Not Again]

^^^

Suboxone is like any other method of getting clean.. it can work great, or fail miserably.. it all depends on how much you personally want to get clean, and if you really take the steps to get there. Like anything else, suboxone is just a tool one can use to help them get on the right path.

Agreed to a point. If you are doing it by your self failure could be higher than a structured rehab that doles out the exact dosage for you every day and has a program. I know even in a structured situation like that failure is there, and to attend one of those and finish means you are dedicated or want very much to be off the opiates now and for good. But I can't think of any other tool that would work besides suboxone.

In the end, you still need to work out for yourself why it is you use, and find the strength and ability to stay clean.

For sure. That is key. How to stay clean. For me I can't fathom ever taking another opiate . It seems like what I just went through ( It was very hard very very hard) will help deter that. They also said the naltrexone shot is available if I ever feel I need it.

I've learned quite a bit here. MR.S you know your stuff and you mod the exact area you should. Thanks for your help throughout.

finishing day 3 and heading into day 4. All has been mild and mental and only couple things bugging me.

Heres the million dollar question.

When can I say it's a soft landing? it's been pretty soft . The worst was when I tapered from2mg to 1 mg down to .125 that was a real shitty crappy and upset time. Could that have been the hard part? I dunno. I'll keep going.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Agreed to a point. If you are doing it by your self failure could be higher than a structured rehab that doles out the exact dosage for you every day and has a program. I know even in a structured situation like that failure is there, and to attend one of those and finish means you are dedicated or want very much to be off the opiates now and for good. But I can't think of any other tool that would work besides suboxone.



For sure. That is key. How to stay clean. For me I can't fathom ever taking another opiate . It seems like what I just went through ( It was very hard very very hard) will help deter that. They also said the naltrexone shot is available if I ever feel I need it.

I've learned quite a bit here. MR.S you know your stuff and you mod the exact area you should. Thanks for your help throughout.

finishing day 3 and heading into day 4. All has been mild and mental and only couple things bugging me.

Heres the million dollar question.

When can I say it's a soft landing? it's been pretty soft . The worst was when I tapered from2mg to 1 mg down to .125 that was a real shitty crappy and upset time. Could that have been the hard part? I dunno. I'll keep going.

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.

As far as your question goes.. it's only been a few days, so I'd say if you're still doing okay in another 2-3 days, then you should feel pretty good about it all. You did everything right, tapered correctly, have the right attitude, etc.

The roughest part will probably be the weeks following the acute-withdrawals, also known as the oh so fun, PAWS. It's important during that time to stay busy and keep your eye on the prize. With a bupe detox, the post acute period can last a long time, but you're on a good path, so keep it going, man.

 

[BlueHues]

@Evey
You made a comment that you thought 40 mgs of hydrocodone was a low amount to be prescribed suboxone?

You do realize hydrocodone is several times more potent by Mg than codeine?

By that logic, being prescribed suboxone for 400mg of codeine is every bit as ridiculous, maybe more.

Of course, you're the person who says youre planning on stopping your taper at 2mg

 

[Eveleivibe]

Hydrocodone is made from codeine. It is a BIT stronger but not several times stronger.
Oh thank you for reminding me that I'm jumping at 2mh but I'm sure I can remember that myself
Have a nice day!

 

[BlueHues]

Where are you from, Im guessing the UK...have you ever even seen hydrocodone?

 

[Eveleivibe]

I have researched it. Yes the UK. And yes we don't have Vicodin (hydrocodone) in the UK. If you're trying to start an argument with me, don't bother I'm not responding further. I have the right to my opinion I'm sorry you don't like that but that's the way of the world.
I'm not continuing this conversation with you as I can see it ending up an argument. Please respect that please.

 

[BlueHues]

I'm not starting an argument with you and it's not a matter of opinion.

If I had no actual idea of what I was talking about I'd be intimidated too. Of course you'll probably report this post, having already illustrated that you're a big baby that can't dven handle other people arguing...but yeah, I'll gladly honor your request to not discuss this any further...

 

[Not Again]

You made a comment that you thought 40 mgs of hydrocodone was a low amount to be prescribed suboxone?

You do realize hydrocodone is several times more potent by Mg than codeine?

By that logic, being prescribed suboxone for 400mg of codeine is every bit as ridiculous, maybe more.

Of course, you're the person who says youre planning on stopping your taper at 2mg

Actually Blues it's 60 mg hydro to 400 mg codeine.

Based on your selections above, here is the result:
Equivalent dose for opiate selected in Step 4 above: 60.00 mg

so it's just around 7-8x stronger. So yeah it is several X stronger.

I knew that because in the early days when 40-80- mg hydro did the job, I got a hold of some codeine and I remember taking a ridiculous amount and it didn't do anything.
http://globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi
Heres the chart for the codeine equivalent and others

Conversion table other drugs equivalent to sub

So to sum the chart up it is comparing 1.2 mg sub to everything on the list.I think the list is dead on.
#Pain Killer Equivalent Doses (Oral)
1.2mg.............Buprenorphine (Bupe)
200mg............Codeine (Tylenol 2, 3, 4, etc)
30-60mg.........Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) (orally it = morphine, IV/IM/insuffilated it's 2x as strong)
100mg............Dihydrocodeine
30mg..............Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Lorcet, etc)
7.5mg.............Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
37.5µg............Fentanyl (not sure on this one, anyone know the oral dose equivalence for Fentanyl?)
4mg................Levorphanol (Dromoran)
300mg............Meperidine (Demerol)
10-20mg.........Methadone
30-60mg.........Morphine
20mg..............Oxycodone (Oxycontin, Percocet)
10mg..............Oxymorphone (Numorphan)
200-300mg.....Propoxyphene (Darvocet)
150mg............Tramadol (Ultram, Ultracet)

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/18499/Conversion-table-other-drugs-equivalent-to-sub



So it seems that 1.2 mg suboxone is the equivalent to 200mg codeine.So what is that 180X stronger. Holy crap. The strength of suboxone is still baffling me.Imagine if bupe was a full antagonist.... Geeze thank god it isn't or this world would be very screwed.

I do this and search out these answers because I want to know as much as I can about what I've just been through and the drug Suboxone.

Plus it's 4 am and xanax and neurontin didn't put me back out.At least I got a good 4 hours in.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

The first time I was prescribed sub I was given 12mg after tapering down my methadone to 30mg to make the switch. I didn't feel high, but I felt sick. I had a headache, double vision and felt shaky and out of it.
The last time I made the switch I went from 30-40mg of methadone to 2mg of sub...and it covered the WD.
There's no doubt people are prescribed too much. We trust Drs and sometimes they don't realize the strength of sub.

Good research NA. It's amazing what you can find to do during sleepless nights. I watched every comedy show on netflix during my last WD. Laughing releases endorphins and helps you heal.
I got about 6 hours sleep during my WD thanks to Trazadone and Nerontin. Save all the big guns (benzos) for bed, if you can.
Just look at the extra hours in the day as a blessing...not a curse. Your sleep will return to normal.
Strength and love....

 

[Eveleivibe]

Referring back to Christmas I will only have 8 mg instead of 12 mg for that day. Went to the gym, sauna, sunbed n had me-time as lil 1 off school next week.

Will get my suboxone on Monday so nothing will be disrupted n I'll have an extra 4mg encase of emergencies.

 

[Tommyboy]

Plus it's 4 am and xanax and neurontin didn't put me back out.At least I got a good 4 hours in.

I'm in the same boat, minus those comfort meds. After being on subs for a few months I went on a little 2 week run (300mg oxy / day) and then finally stopped 3 days ago. I had mostly been waiting 24 hours between dosing which I think helped a bit, and these withdrawals haven't been too hellish other than not being able to sleep. I got an hour two nights ago, and maybe 4 hours last night. I pretty much got through the worst of it after the first day. I've even been working 8 hours a day without wanting to kill everyone. So my main symptoms have been restless / burning legs, insomnia, and feeling cold.

Mentally I feel great though, which might just be mania coming at a good time. Zero substances were taken to help, and I don't plan on going back on anything.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I wish bupe FELT as strong as it truly is. maybe I'd be having a better time than I already am.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Hey Tommy...if you have access to a bath tub, get some Epsom's salts and soak in, as hot as you can stand it, water. It really helped my restless and burning legs. I'd do it right before bed and it helped allot.
Hang in there.

 

[Tommyboy]

Hey Tommy...if you have access to a bath tub, get some Epsom's salts and soak in, as hot as you can stand it, water. It really helped my restless and burning legs. I'd do it right before bed and it helped allot.
Hang in there.

I think that the reason why I've been doing alright at work is because I'm on my feet all day, and that actually keeps the restless legs at bay. But the minute I lay down they keep kicking, so I usually get up and walk around which feels better, but then it gets bad again when I lay back down.