Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

[BlueHues]

^What the fuck exactly do you think you know and why?

Pretty much everything you post is the dumbest thing I've read thus far...until you post something else, then then becomes the dumbest thing I've ever read thus far...

Edit: also, don't misunderstand my opinion on suboxone....I've had doctors tell me that heroin users "need" less suboxone than any of there other patients, but I personally know that's not true...An IV heroin user should need more than anyone to maintain themselves....The problem is, the majority of the pill users are idiots like you that have no experience with, and/or no understanding of the way buprenorphine works...they just assume that they must need a lot of it....

 

[Jabberwocky]

here's what I know.. I am ON SUBOX. I was an extremely heavy user. I used 2-4MG throughout my heavy using just to kill time before my next blast. 2-4MG did nothing for the mental struggle; could barely help w/ the physical. but here you are saying that people over-do and 4MG is more than enough?

here's what would happen if you stayed on subox for 2 months; you'd still be clean and possible on a lower dosage today. it helps the original struggle and the original cravings. stay on as long as you want, its better than the trouble/struggle you once put yourself in. I went 5 years sober prior and here I am going sober again but w/ the help of subox and I could not be more confident it my doings and my dosage thus far. slowly dropping 2-4MG over every 1-2 month period.

just look what others are saying; they take a low dosage and cravings are still there.

 

[BlueHues]

Buprenorphine never kills cravings completely no matter how much you take....the amount they use as a painkiller in similar situations to morphine is around .3mgs....The only difference between 4mgs and 16mgs is that with 16mgs more of the drug will be in your system for longer, so you won't need to dose as frequently...You can actually kind of feel 1.5-2 mgs, which there's an explanation for that I won't go into...

I agree that different people may need different doses, but it's in the range of 2-8 mgs, not 16-24....for someone trying to come off 2 grams of heroin a day, if 16 mgs keeps you clean then do it...but prescribing a teenager chipping on hydrocodone 16mgs of bupe is irresponsible...

 

[Tommyboy]

Might be some of the dumbest shit I've read thus far.

Do you want to elaborate? I agreed with most of what he posted, except that I've never spoken to the doctor about oxy users saying they needed more than what heroin users have said they needed, although that wouldn't surprise me since I know a few people addicted to oxy and they complain more about their withdrawals than most heroin users I know, and it's not like these peoples oxy habits are that bad. One kid averages 45mg a day, and the other just 60mg a day so nothing compared to most of the heroin users I know that wouldn't even get the slightest buzz off of those oxy doses.

Edit: I see you replied while I was posting. For me, 6mg was the highest dose that I would still feel more affects from, meaning when I took 8mg it did no more than the 6mg. The 6mg was more than enough to help with my cravings, even though it didn't give me the buzz that it once did.

I think that most people shy away from higher doses if they've ever had to come off of suboxone before. I kicked suboxone a few years ago after being on 16mg for a little over a year and it was the worst kick ever, so this time I'm just doing a 2 month taper starting at 6mg and ending with .5mg, and am currently at 2mg about to drop to 1.

 

[BlueHues]

I'm sorry for the dick post....you're entitled to your opinion...I know you've done heroin for a long time, but so have a lot of us....So I don't like you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about any better than you...Shit, if I'm wrong I'll admit it...

Sekio could roll up in this thread right now and make both of us look like assholes by pointing out exactly what the deal is...but I'm just going on my experience and what I've learned here...

 

[Not Again]

On a supervised sub taper. They say that 16 mg is the highest they will ever give to anyone. They went on to say the effects of more are not as great. Also explaining of a ceiling effect .

They started me at 16, I thought I needed more, but that was in my head.

I'm at 10 mg now. Every 3 days they take 2 mg away. Seems not to be noticed yet.

After reading these posts about 4mg being enough, I'm glad. I think they use 16 to build up in the system and while the taper is going on, it is a secondary taper being present. Kinda like an overlapping taper.

The drug tapering it's self and the actual doses tapering at the same time. Probably leads to not feeling it to well after the jump off, if at all.

I wish I could equate 10 mg sub into what oxy is, so that I could see where I am compared to where I was. 350-400 mg a day and if I didn't watch it more. I did however get to a solid 320 mg before I gave up.

I hate being dependent on anything. This last run was a 6 month thing and I tippled what I was doing on the run just 4 month prior. As I was watching how many pills were going, I thought I need to stop.

I probably have an incredible tolerance as that is what I read after using sub.

But can anyone say how much oxy is equal to 10 mg sub?

 

[0057]

hi guys im new here, my name is Eric. I've been on subutex for 2 years now and am just starting to taper. my Dr. only takes me down 1 mg a month so its going slow.im prescribed 16mg this month, but my dose has always varied, lets say I dont always take my whole scrip myself. My reply to Not Again, I would say they are just so different. depends on your tolerance, and it seems to vary greatly from person to person. when I used to do dilaudids, say 24 mg hydromorphone daily, I would only need 1 mg of bupe to take away any withdrawl, and 2-4 mg bupe would get me high all day.

 

[0057]

Might be some of the dumbest shit I've read thus far.

actually, what BlueHues is saying is what I hear from a lot of people and I know it to be true from experience too. why don't u actually try taking 4 mg first and see what happens. I'll bet you end up feeling stupid for being an arrogant ass and dismissing someone else's experience because you aren't as mature but still think you know it all. Jerk

 

[Not Again]

So does that mean I'm taking way too much ?
I've recently felt that way but since it's a rather quick taper I haven't said much.
Tomorrow will be last day at 10 mg then. 8 mg,
I feel as though I could just stop now . Maybe it's because I've been off the pills so long.
I'm certain I'm not addicted to the suboxone yet.
Why would I wait for the entire taper?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

Because your tolerance is still equal to 10mg's of bupe which is high. If you stop now, you'll be hurting. That is the whole point of tapering, to get down to as low of a dose as possible to minimize withdrawal.

 

[BlueHues]

^Nonono...please don't misunderstand anything I've said.....I believe 16mgs is unnecessary as a maintenance dose based on years of the experiences of myself and the other people close to me who've messed around with this drug in every way imaginable....16mgs will stay in your system for longer, and it will also block any other opiate/opioid more efficiently than lower doses....I personally don't think that justifies prescribing everyone that amount...

I'm not qualified to offer an opinion on whether or not 16mgs is a good starting dose for a short term detox, that's a completely different animal...

However I will say: the most difficult part of the detox is from 4mgs down...especially when you get under 2mgs...and unfortunately, most medical facilities that offer supervised Suboxone detox will cut you off at 2...that's when the fun began for me...

In no way should you jump off now! Get as low as possible....I jumped off at 2 and stayed clean for 18 months until last winter....Hopefully they will give you other medications once the suboxone is discontinued....most places do...

For most people, it takes about 3-4 weeks to get back to normal if they jump off at two...and you will get some sleep and have periods every day of feeling normal....

Stick with the detox you're on.....you can do it! try to get a script for clonidine...take ibuprofen as needed, and use diphenhydramine at night(or maybe a benzo)

there's lots of info on BL of different supplements and OTC stuff you can use....Unfortunately I don't have a link for it, but the info is on BL...

despite the fact that there's a lot of bickering on here...I believe the best, most accurate info you can find anywhere online is here...

This is the only place on the whole web I could find anyone to actually give me solid info on Suboxone when I first went on it 8 years ago!

 

[Not Again]

Mr.S thanks for your help,

Blue is my fav color and I thank you for helping me.

They told me they give meds to help at the end, clonidine was mentioned.

But never mind that. I have it already. I have all sorts of stuff I accumulated along the way. From benzos to Kratom. From Tramadol to Robaxin and soma.

I got so much stuff I don't even have a list of inventory in my head. Sometimes, I will say ,,, Oh yeah I forgot about that.

I also have 2 (8mg) Strips of sub they don't know I have, actually like 2 1/2. I haven't been cheating at all, but I think I may do a 1mg to .5 taper if they cut me at 2. If I need it. ONLY IF I NEED IT.

I will wait at least 48 hours to see if needed.


Any input of that idea?

Tapering even further on my own after the rehab tells me to jump off? I've heard 2 is where they stop it. Their thinking is there is so much sub in the system at that point it's useless to go anymore. Thoughts???

 

[footscrazy]

Jumping off at 2mg seems to be asking for trouble to me. On my most recent taper I got down to less than .5mg a day, and jumping off from that was pretty rough. After two weeks off I was still feeling shit, and had seen only a small improvement. I had a holiday booked so I ended up getting back on sub, as I didn't want to waste my holiday feeling so dismal. It may work better with a more rapid taper like the one you are doing though, Not Again.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

2mg is way too high. Why jump off at 2 when it's so easy to go lower?

Trust me, the withdrawals from 2mg's compared to .5 or even 1, are night and day.

The lower you can get, the easier the withdrawal will be. Look at it that way. Try to get to .25mg's. With the strips, it's really easy to cut into tiny pieces like that. For .25mg doses, you'll want to cut it into 1/32nd's

 

[Jabberwocky]

actually, what BlueHues is saying is what I hear from a lot of people and I know it to be true from experience too. why don't u actually try taking 4 mg first and see what happens. I'll bet you end up feeling stupid for being an arrogant ass and dismissing someone else's experience because you aren't as mature but still think you know it all. Jerk

did you read ANYTHING that I have EVER said? you havent, you fool. when doing 4MG's I was using daily on top. the 4MG's may have killed a bit of the buzz but 12hrs after the dosage I would blast 2G's of dope. 4MG's did zero; had no effect whatsoever. I still have the drive/urge to get high. It didnt even stay in my system long enough to keep me from getting high.

so yes, I did read what he said.. and now I have read what you said.. and you know what I think? you are a moron, as well. it's all based on the individual but I just happen to be an individual who has been using subox for years and years. even for a while I would taper between subox and dope daily. maybe 2 day dope run, 1 day subox, back to dope, 1 day subox, then blast dope 12hrs later if I came up w/ the cash. so please, dont tell me how subox works.

here's a word of advice to EVERYONE: DO WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT.. OR YOU FEEL WORKS! let's not pretend to be a Dr. and think you know how to script others. it's foolish. sure, you can base on your experience, but realize your experience may be NOTHING like the next person.

 

[RTrain]

I was just thinking about the whole waiting longer to take the first Sub and whether its gonna work better if you wait longer. Is it really better to wait just because you are letting your tolerance drop more the longer you cold turkey it? It seems the only explanation as to why waiting to 24 hours is better than 12 to 16.

Thing is, it just doesn't seem that the difference would be that noticeable. The Subs still leave me feeling like shit so the tolerance is dropping anyway. Is 8-12 hours of being in CT instead of the minimal relief from Subs really making a difference? Does anyone out there wait 24+ hours to take it and still need to ride it out feeling sick for a few days?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I was just thinking about the whole waiting longer to take the first Sub and whether its gonna work better if you wait longer. Is it really better to wait just because you are letting your tolerance drop more the longer you cold turkey it? It seems the only explanation as to why waiting to 24 hours is better than 12 to 16.

Thing is, it just doesn't seem that the difference would be that noticeable. The Subs still leave me feeling like shit so the tolerance is dropping anyway. Is 8-12 hours of being in CT instead of the minimal relief from Subs really making a difference? Does anyone out there wait 24+ hours to take it and still need to ride it out feeling sick for a few days?

Yes that is the reason for waiting, on top of waiting for the opiates to leave your receptors. Having to give it time for your tolerance to drop down into the effective range for bupe is the reason a lot of people with heavy habits don't get any relief from suboxone for a couple days.

 

[Ian937]

Yeah Ive taken the sub about 12 hrs after last use of dope
No pwds. But felt as if i hadn't taken anything and was sick as a dog for 3 days..
Always best to wait until you simply cannot anymore then wait a little bit longer before dosing.

 

[Tommyboy]

To the person that asked for suboxones dosage compared to oxy, 0.25mg of suboxone = 6-7mg of oxycodone (the chart actually says 5mg of oxy now, but for a while it said 6.7-7 and I thought that seemed more accurate considering it has hydrocodone at 10mg). That goes for sublingual suboxone and oral oxycodone. Now the ceiling dose of suboxone maxes out way lower than 16mg in this respect (I think they say it's closer to 4-6mg when it comes to analgesic affects and such, and the higher doses just work more for blocking and lasting longer) so that's why it doesn't work so well at first if you have a really big habit. IMO if your habit is above 300mg of oxycodone a day then it's going to take a few days to feel better on subs. Any habit below 200mg of oxy seems to be covered pretty well right off the bat from subs.

I was just thinking about the whole waiting longer to take the first Sub and whether its gonna work better if you wait longer. Is it really better to wait just because you are letting your tolerance drop more the longer you cold turkey it? It seems the only explanation as to why waiting to 24 hours is better than 12 to 16.

Thing is, it just doesn't seem that the difference would be that noticeable. The Subs still leave me feeling like shit so the tolerance is dropping anyway. Is 8-12 hours of being in CT instead of the minimal relief from Subs really making a difference? Does anyone out there wait 24+ hours to take it and still need to ride it out feeling sick for a few days?

Here's how I look at it. If you are getting high daily and then want to switch to subs, if you just wait until you are feeling a little sick then the ceiling dose of the bupe doesn't allow for it to match up to a dose that will take the withdrawals away fully, and for some reason it takes a few days for it to be able to work if the first day taking it doesn't make you feel a lot better. So waiting until you are really sick makes it so that any decent amount of an opioid will make you feel better, hence the suboxone working way better the sicker you are. It's similar to allowing your tolerance to drop, but not quite.

 

[kflow12626]

suboxone to methadone switch

Hello everyone. Im new to BL so bear with me. I am on suboxone maintenance and I want to switch to methadone. I take roughly 8 to 10 mg sublingauly a day. How many hours do I need to wait until I can get good strong effects from methadone dose of 50-70 mg? And also is there any tip to help rid my system of the suboxone faster so I wont have as much to bind to my receptors so there are ones open for methadone to bind to? Thanks and im eager to read everyone's replies!