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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?

How to Limit Withdraw Symptoms from Kratom, Opiates, or Tram

I am writing to help those trying ease withdraw symptoms, focusing on opiates or opiate like drugs (a semi-important distinction).......

To start off, I have withdrawn from so many different drugs over the past 8 years that I am amazed I'm still here sometimes; namely, Heroin, Benzos, Addys, Poppy Seed Tea, Tramadol, Oxy, Alcohol, Wellbutrin, Morphine, Kratom, you name it I have have probably done it. For exclusion purposes, I have done Methadone, Meth, Coke, Suboxone, Ecstasy and other shit but only in short duration. The following regimen will focus on Opiates (Oxy, etc...), Kratom (yes its shitty), Trams (don't listen to people who say Opiates are easier), or Poppy Seed Tea.

I probably do not need to explain what you are in for, but understand you can and will get through it. That said, you have to want sobriety. Btw, I am not a fan of tapers, as I could never stick to the schedule (always made up an excuse to take more).

Regimen: Broken out by before/after you quite

Before You quite
1. Start Exercising: Begin working out before you stop taking your last dose, as it will be more difficult to start cold turkey in the full throws of withdrawal.
2. Buy Vitamins: B6, B12, Magnesium, and Zinc will be critical. Start taking these before 3wks prior, if not longer
3. Get Meds but do start taking them: The following list will help mitigate most withdrawal symptoms and can easily be found online
- Deprenyl: Requires a prescription, but can easily be found online (HIGHLY RECOMMEND). The drug will help boost your dopamine levels, which will be very important after you begin withdrawing
- Loperamide: Imodium, this will help with shits and in higher doses will eliminate most symptoms (+20mgs depending on your habit)
- Ibuprofen/Naproxen/Tylenol: Buy a shit load
- PEA & Hordenine: This will help boost Serotonin and energy levels (easily found online)
- Phenibut: Will reduce/eliminate anxiety and help you sleep
4. Ask for sometime off of work
5. Book several massages (if you can afford it)

Stop Using, Now the fun begins
1. Exercise: While in the full throws of withdrawal, this is the last thing you will want to do; however, you will all but eliminate RLS symptoms...... not to mention the natural endorphins you will release. Also, i've listed it first, because it is by far the most important.
2. Take Vitamins: Continue Taking the Vitamins listed above. If you have been doing this prior to starting the withdrawal, you will be a much happier
camper. Trust me, I've done it both ways and not all.
3. Take Meds as needed: I'm not going to tell you how to dose, but happy to answer questions....
4. Time off of work: I actually prefer to keep my mind occupied by working, but that can be very difficult without the meds I recommended. If you have a physical job, I would take time off.
5. Get massages: This will help so much with the joint pain, etc...

If I can help answer questions, please let me know. I felt I should put this out there, even if it only helps one person.

Cheers,

Cake33
 
^ really good strategy here, but i think a little more attention may be paid to the adrenals.. exercise in acutes can cause a spike in the already spiking adrenals.. I would also add in Clonidine to help with the spike. Reducing adrenals reduces the over all syptoms on so many fronts and it also can do wonders for many specific symptoms.
 
quidamsoul said:
I don't remember actual dosages, but if loperamide did not help you, you did not take enough.

My girlfriend popped 2 loperamide pills (2mg each? I really don't remember) and found them to do next to nothing. I researched and found them to be safe in large amounts, so I suggested she double her dose, and later that day to double it again. She wound up taking 16-24 pills a day, 4-8 at a time. But at that dosage, it was truly godsend.
Click to expand...
Interesting, Im kind of on the fence about lope, I know alot of people claim its a god send, but everytime Ive tried it, and a couple times, I did take quite a few, didnt keep track, but kept taking like 4-5 at once thru out the day, by nightime, i really didnt feel any better, my mouth was extremely dry, and kind of felt anxious...IDK, maybe I need to take a whole bunch at one time, like 14-20 pills at once?

Will there be that noticeable of a difference if I take that many at once versus 4-5 every 45 minutes or so thru out the day?
 
^it seems controversial here on bluelight but:

any time I use loperaimide I crush and or chew them first. It seems logical. amd trial and error had the best results. Something about half-life and.duration mostly. Seems like it makes it more practical and managable.
 
With a 60-90mg oxy a day habit when I didn't have aby oxy I would take 400mg of tramadol per day ( ik trams are opioids), I also would take 900mg gabapebtin and 30mg baclofen, with all those my w/d would virtually be gone, still had sum pain but manageable, I'm trying to quit oxy right now and on my 3rd day clean using the cocktail above, after day 5 I'm going to start tapering the trams, anyways I hope this helps and good luck brother
 
If you can get hold of pregabalin, lofexidine and a sleep med you can pretty much do a number on the withdrawal process.

There are many pitfalls along the way though.
 
Loperamide works well IME; pregabalin (Lyrica) can almost erase the symptoms for its duration also purely IME.
 
Phenibut also helps extremely well in titrating down use; (i can skip days of subutex if i take 4g or more per day).. but its not really a long term solution as addiction to a mixed GABA-b/GABA-a agonist/positive allosteric modulator is a bit worse than opioid withdrawal.

BACLOFEN- as mentioned, is a miracle drug for opioids. I never tried it during withdrawal. But i unknowingly dropped from 4mg of subutex a day to 1mg a day in a week w/o any withdrawal. & baclofen is surprisingly easy to taper down on. Doses should start around 20mg; and slowly increase to 50-120mg, depending on the person.. but the lowest effective dose possible should be used. This drug is very easily available via online vendors, & reliability of these vendors can be sought in other forums i wont mention here.

For lower tolerances, kratom extracts will work.

Any GABAergic will work w/ anxiety & sleep; barbiturates will aide in analgesia too, being AMPA antagonists & our superior to benzodiazepines; but they are not recommended whatsoever beyond 2 days of use concurrently; you don't want a barbiturate addiction--i've went through it & i'd rather go through a 3-bundle-a-day dope habit cold turkey. But again you're risking trading one addiction for another.

Mulungu bark tea will work as a non-addictive alternative to GABAergics; although its thought to mediate the same systems on some level. Valerian root will work marginally, but extracts of valerenic acids work best; as they contribute mostly to Valerian's sedative effects.

I find hydroxyzine & first-generation antihistamines to increase RLS (if experienced during opioid withdrawal) w/ very low quality sleep. Although not as bad of an anticholinergic as diphenhydramine/benadryl, hydroxyzine requires an Rx (in the US at least)--so i'd recommend diphenhydramine.

Gabapentin & pregabalin both work very well; but, gabapentin especially lowers in efficacy after even a few concurrent uses. Its best meant for dosing every 2-3 days. & i've found it needs to be at doses above 2000-3000mg for me. Pregabalin i can't speak to as i've never used it; I just know it more efficiently & effectively binds to the alpha-2-delta receptor than gabapentin does. But it in regards to tolerance, i'd imagine it works similarly in this matter to gabapentin.

I've successfully used 3-MeO-PCP to completely resolve 8 days worth of buprenorphine (subutex) withdrawal (was shorted by the doctor b/c i "should have had 10 extra pills" b/c of concurrent months of 2-3 days of early appointments--but didn't, used in emergency situations & helping friends). Literally, it completely resolved withdrawal; but you have to be able to be in situation where you have no responsibilities during use, of course. 4-MeO-PCP did not have this effect for me, at least at doses that maintain your sanity & do not ward into psychosis.

Other dissociatives, especially dextromethorphan/DXM, really had done nothing but made depression worse, body-load unbearable, & nausea/vomiting was severely increased. I haven't had a chance to try ketamine nor any of its RC analogs, i'd imagine they'd certainly work given 3-MeO-PCP's efficacy--but dosing would have to be too frequent i'd imagine. But serotonergic side effects relatively minimal compared to PCP analogs.
 
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used plenty loperamide for Oxy & H WD & can't say anything bad about it. Didn't know why but it works. Other stuff helps too butalways start w loperamide generic as it's easily available & potassium + hot baths w erosion salt, menthol, eucalyptus, etc helps pain. Any hot bath soaks help but even better w Epsom
 
This recipe found has saved many miserable moments:"PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

THOMAS RECIPE

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

Thomas"
 
Don't forget MUSIC!!
It's healthy, and certainly aides with depression. Withdrawal or not.

If all you can do is curl up in bed, at least have your favourite music on, it helps... <3

~Ms.P
Click to expand...
- AGREED! Dont listen to anything that depresses you though, misery loves company. Listen to Music that reminds you of being clean, healthy and full of life like that awesome summer at the beach.

Personally I find spiritual music that gets you pumped up is best. I listened to alot of TOOL ("neversickanymore", your avatar reminds me of them. Nice). TOOL is a very spiritual band. The lyrics and music in general of a bunch of TOOL's select songs influenced me to find my "center" (get your soul back) and be at peace. No its not going to help the physical symptom (well maybe if you love music that much) but it will greatly help the mental aspect. If you have no one to talk you through W/D, music WILL. Im sure others will all tell the same sort of story here but i felt the need to elaborate more on music because I only saw it mentioned once in this thread.

Alot of talk about Loperamide in this thread. IME, I used it for my first opiod W/D and my second W/D. The first time I took entirely too much (being i was a 19 year old dumbass) like 100+ mg a day thinking that it was a miracle. Then i Stopped taking Lope and W/D hit me. The second time I used Lope for W/D was much more successful as I was educated on it. As alot of people have mentioned, use it only to take the edge off. No more. I took enough Lope my first time that it felt like i was still on Buprenorphine. Really though, all I did was fill my receptors with a very similar compound that has a cross tolerance with Buprenorphine.

I want to point out 2 things.

1. Using Loperamide after you are finished with a successful Buprenorphine Taper will do wonders as Loperamide doesnt hit Your mu receptors as well as Buprenorphine.

2. I have read that Loperamide is "closely related to fentanyl". Lope doesnt hit your mu receptors like traditional opiates/opiods but it hits your gut way harder and intestinal W/D symptoms from Lope can be far worse than those traditional opiates/opiods. Theres a syndrome called "Toxic Megacolon", wiki it. Rare but something to be aware of.

Off the Lope topic, I posted a very interesting theory of mine (IMO) today concerning DNA/Genetic analyzation and how it could possibly help with opiate/opiod W/D in the Opiod W/D Megathread and FAQ. http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...al-Megathread-and-FAQ?p=12461578#post12461578
 
As someone who tried cold turkey but failed, and now am 15 days clean because I got medical support, I can tell you that my doc gave me:
1. Clonidine patch (change once a week)
2. Clonazapam, low dose with a fast taper. I'll be off it in 2 days.
3. Hydroxyzine Palmoate, supposedly helps with nausea and anxiety
4. Loperamide--MUST HAVE!!!!!!
5. Ambien for sleep

The difference between this time and cold turkey can't even be described--it still is no fun, and I felt like I was dying the first three days, but I didn't have the twitches, hot/cold flashes, or nausea (after the first three days). Still had night sweats, still feel wrung-out, but they helped me make it through. Good luck!
 
I wish this thread went on and on but its incredible as is - I used L Tyrosine it was great and i used a mix called Nureo Optimizer and it was wondeful .
Excersise and tapering and benzos is how i quit last time -
I have done the whole Ibogain thing twice and i do not reccomend it a all . It work kinda - you suffer your ass off and my vision was never the same .
Im very interested in this Baclofen what is this all about - im in WD now but i can sleeep .... Doctor tomorrow surgery soon - so my taper is more or less now to help the meds work - if its extremly painful and lst time it was . Bummed bad bad
You guys are great .
 
I think somas would work well if you can get some carisoprodol. They're almost like benzos but more mellow and more like a drunk feeling
 
Been taking oxy for 5yrs...prescribed Baclofen and T3's for chronic back spasms and severe headaches from car accident, but didn't get any relief from those. A friend had a script for oxy's that he rarely needed, so I didn't pay for them for the first 3yrs, but he ended his script due to a custody battle (his ex said he was an addict who couldn't take care of his kids) so I've been paying for these for the last couple yrs...I want to be done with that and keep my cash!

Been taking 100-200mg/day (20mg doses) which, where I live, costs $50-$100/day. I don't get any of the typical withdrawal symptoms (I figure it's because I never took enough to completely get rid of the pain) I just get extreme back pain 24hrs after stopping. Is this normal when quitting oxy's? Tried taking my Baclofen again, but it's still no help. I've tried waiting it out up to 7 days, but the pain doesn't decrease, it either increases or stays the same. Any tips on what I should do?

Should I tell my doc what I've been taking and what happens when I stop? Oxy also helps my anxiety and depression (diagnosed as having major in symptoms in both categories...and ranked notable high in schizo-like thinking...lol) so I'll probably see my doc anyway to get something to help the mental issues if I stop the oxy's.
 
I should mention that a couple yrs ago I ended up at the ER with kidney failure and final stage hypothermia (hypothermia occurs when body temp drops from 37 to 35 degrees...I was 30 degrees. ER thought I was dead...took 7hrs to warm me up). I was put on dialysis during an induced coma, which would've cleared out the oxy in my system, and I woke from the coma in pain...pain that kept getting worse (fuckin hospital beds) until I got out of the ER seven days later and could get some oxy's...so I'm not convinced that the back pain I get, when I stop the oxy, is purely related to stopping.
 
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