MAPS Magnesium and ketamine

[Foreigner]

I read a really interesting research report recently, whose abstract can be found here.

I've read many anecdotal reports in the past by holistic therapists that use high doses of magnesium to regulate depression, anxiety, body tension, and body pain. The research shows that high levels of cortisol in the blood, over time, have damaging effects on the NMDA receptors of the pre-frontal cortex by over-agonizing them, something that ultra low dose ketamine therapy has been shown to improve. Until recently, the beneficial effects of magnesium on the body were poorly understood and thus went under-stated; but by studying the shared mechanism of magnesium and ketamine, a better idea of a therapeutic modality may be uncovered.

Magnesium has a beneficial effect on the NMDA system by acting as voltage gate that blocks the receptor channel from activating so intensely in the presence of stress and pro-longed adversity. Ketamine is an NMDA antagonist which triggers synapse regrowth at therapeutic doses only, while magnesium can protect the receptor from excessive excitation. Together, these could be an effective combination for many different diseases, and needs further study.

 

[Bagseed]

So a Magnesium supplement alone could be beneficial for anxiety and depression?

 

[any major dude]

Very interesting. I know magnesium is also used as a treatment for bruxia & has been used to attenuate teeth grinding in recreational MDMA use. It's a quite interesting & useful substance. Definitely going to look further into this.

 

[vortech]

What level of dosing are we talking about for magnesium to have these effects? About as much as a standard supplement regimen or a higher dose?

 

[Foreigner]

What level of dosing are we talking about for magnesium to have these effects? About as much as a standard supplement regimen or a higher dose?

If it's an oral supplement, then the standard supplement would probably be enough, though there are differences in bio-availability between sublingual and ingested forms. 400 IUs daily is the current RDA. I take my magnesium in oil form rubbed on the skin. Magnesium chloride in water forms a transdermal oil.

So a Magnesium supplement alone could be beneficial for anxiety and depression?

If the depressed person is deficient in magnesium, then it should not be precluded.

 

[Bagseed]

I will go to the pharmacy later and get me a Magnesium supplement, and maybe a multi-vitamin. Is there a "Mental Health and Supplements"-Thread of some sort?

 

[Chikkenstorm]

Keep in mind that there are different kinds of magnesium for sale. Most common (and cheapest) is mg-oxide, but that's worthless. Your body can only absorb about 4% of it, IIRC. I've just bought some magnesium-citrate a few days ago, which is supposed to be a lot better (and still pretty cheap). And then there are plenty more: some good, some very good and others almost as worthless as mg-oxide, but I don't remember all the details on them. There's not a lot of useful info on it sadly enough and a lot of sources contradict each other. I gave up in the end and just went for the Citrate.

 

[Bagseed]

^ have you got a reference for that claim? I just bought a supplement containing mostly Mg-oxide. I will try it out anyway.

 

[Chikkenstorm]

Actually found some new sources with a new search and they seem to be scientific as well!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14596323 ("Mg citrate found more bioavailable than other Mg preparations in a randomised, double-blind study")
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407766 ("Magnesium bioavailability from magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide")

To be honest I always find that website a bit confusing (apart from all the scientific talk), but since everyone here seems to link to it, I trust it's a good source. And don't be ashamed, I fell for the MgO as well at my first try I actually had to order online to get the citrate, which seems to be a good choice after all. I read some websites that said that it was only useful for constipation, but my bowels don't really seem to have a problem with it. With oxide however, I didn't need my morning coffee...

 

[atara]

Magnesium is generally very soluble in the highly acidic environment of the stomach. It is probably the most easily absorbed mineral excluding the alkali metals and chloride. Any soluble salt should work; chelates are kind of overkill. MgO itself is very insoluble, as are most nonalkali metal oxides; any supplement containing a metal oxide or phosphate should be treated with suspicion.

http://www.jle.com/en/revues/bio_rech/mrh/e-docs/00/04/15/FE/article.phtml

Taken together, these results indicate that 26Mg is sufficiently bioavailable from the ten different Mg salts studied in the present experiment, although Mg gluconate exhibited the highest bioavailability under these experimental conditions.

Here is a review of the role of magnesium in the treatment of depression. Unlike many reported effects of supplementation of ordinary nutrients, the effect of Mg appears to be very real. Some of the work in this area has been done by the very strange yet apparently serious "George Eby", who maintains a hilariously-formatted website selling zinc for the common cold, and believes in such fringe (impossible) concepts as "nanobacteria". His publications are nonetheless cited in many prominent journals.

http://george-eby-research.com/html/magnesium-treatment-resistant-depression.pdf

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00048670802534408

The hypothesis that magnesium intake is related to depression in the community is supported by the present findings. These findings may have public health and treatment implications.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/6/1053.short

No dose-response relationship was found (P-trend = 0.59). Results were robust through different sensitivity analyses, including nutrient density or residual models. In conclusion, our findings do not suggest an inverse association between magnesium intake and depressive disorder.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/maney/nns/2002/00000005/00000006/art00002 "Magnesium and affective disorders"

http://www.jle.com/e-docs/00/04/4e/1e/article.phtml

An increase of intracellular magnesium may be part of the mechanism of action of antidepressants.

So depression as related to magnesium deficiency is... possible. Hypomagnesemia-related depression may be more common in the elderly. Furthermore, it is possible that depression is related to deficiencies in magnesium utilization as well as intake, as evidenced by the last study. I imagine Mg is useful in the treatment of depression only when the depression is related to an underlying magnesium deficiency. There are probably other types of depression magnesium will fail to treat. If you suspect your diet includes insufficient magnesium, try changing it.

 

[Foreigner]

^ Thanks for all those wonderful links! Your post has really got me thinking.

 

[EarthBounded]

Further study is exact... Sure a dissociative can aid in depression, but for how long? Methylone is an anti-depressant in the eye of the people, that does not mean they should be administered and distributed legally. Some things should remain " recreational " I'm guessing someone who only administers Magnesium opposed to Magnesium + K is going to have an overall better quality of life. But we cant stay locked in a box all day that is what recess is for.

EDIT: This is IMO I take Magnesium daily and have never touched a dissociative my father was and is a recovering dissociative addict. Also the negative side effects of Ketamine should be outlined here. What receptors is it binding to is it an agonist / antagonist and to what. Are there long term effects etc etc...

 

[kittyinthedark]

I can attest to the positive effects for my N of 1. I have a so-far-undiagnosed sleep disorder and long history of depressive/anxious mental illness (docs have suggested that anxiety plays a role in my sleep disturbances), and magnesium definitely helps me sleep. And thank you for reminding me I just ran out and need to pick some up today.

 

[specialspack]

MgO itself is very insoluble, as are most nonalkali metal oxides; any supplement containing a metal oxide or phosphate should be treated with suspicion.

Just noticed this. The standard commercial formulations available in pharmacies appear to a mixture of MgO and Mg stearate - with the oxide being the major ingredient. Should these be "treated with suspicion?

 

[kittyinthedark]

Suspicion insofar as you need to take unreasonable amounts of them to get them to work since the bioavailability is so low. Your money is much better spent on magnesium citrate as detailed above.