Experiences with Amfonelic acid?

[tweex]

Just ran across this one. I've read through all the old threads on it from the last 6 years.

So anyone have any new input on it? Any long term users out there?

Appears to be very interesting as a highly potent DRI with a fairly good side effect profile considering its potency.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0014299970902062
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0091305789900695
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0091305789900701
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000689939090467P

It isn't a controlled substance, so I'm thinking about sourcing some and giving it a try.

As to antibiotic properties, the related compound Nalidixic Acid is apparently dosed at 500mg, although I'm unsure of a potency comparison. Any further info on possible development of quinolone-resistant bacterial strains from use?

 

[sekio]

asking for experience reports is not really advanced drug discussion material.

Any long term users out there?

i certainly hope not. excellent way to build antibiotic resistance.

 

[tweex]

asking for experience reports is not really advanced drug discussion material.

i certainly hope not. excellent way to build antibiotic resistance.

The antibiotic resistance issue is an interesting one though, because I'm not exactly how potent of an antibiotic it is. If it is comparable to Nalidixic acid, I would assume it has very little antibiotic activity at psychoactive doses.

 

[sekio]

quinolone resistance is well known in the literature. part of the concern is that continuous exposures to low levels of antibiotics will promote resistance.

related quinolones are typically dosed at 5-25 mg/kg for antibiotic effects. given that recreational doses are considerably lower than this (potency > dexamphetamine in discrimination tests) i would have some concern about resistance developing with regular use.

also, the closely related fluoroquinolones do not exactly have an excellent side effects profile (qt prolongation, tendon rupture, etc)

 

[Vaya]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this one caught my eye, figured I'd share my experience.

I received a gram of this from a reputable lab for sampling, and was pretty blown away. Oral dosing of 20-25mg produced a very interesting buzz that lasted about six hours. The reason I describe it as 'interesting' is that I could feel the dopamine, very specifically, in my brain. And it felt wonderful, obviously!

A fascinating aspect of this monoaminergic is that it felt subjectively as though it singled out dopamine and no other neurotransmitter. I'm not naive, I understand that other neuronal systems were at play, but this was the purest dopaminergic experience of my life. Zero PNS effects (thank god). Just five or six hours of rolling waves of dopamine; the experience actually felt as though someone dropped a pebble onto my cerebral cortex and the resulting ripples kept rolling over my frontal, temporal and parietal lobes... To be even more specific, my striatum, which makes sense:

NSFW:

That's all!
Peace,
~ Vaya

 

[QUARE]

Amfonelic acid, also know under the name of AFA or WIN 25,978
IUPAC : 1-ethyl-4-oxo-7-(phenylmethyl)-1,8-naphthyridine-3-carboxylic acid

I've just seen this chemical on sale from one of my vendor and I'm a little bit frustrated because I just ordered some 2-FMA and a sample of 3F-Phenmetrazine. The thing is that after reading the Wikipedia page a couple of PubMed and some post on the forum, I realized that this chemical could be very interesting.

So since I might order some, another time, I would like to have some more information if there are new experiences or information that I might have missed.

First off, according to Wikipedia, Amfonelic acid would by a potent and highly selective dopamine transporter inhibitor with approximately 50x the dopaminergic potency of Methylphenidate which have a Ki of 41 nM for dopamine transporter so if I calculated correctly the Ki of Amfonelic acid for dopamine transporter would be of 0,82 nM which is extremely potent.

Now, one of my question is that if Amfonelic acid only inhibit the dopamine transporters, would it really be as euphoric as Vaya described ?

Substituted - Amphetamines are known to be the most abused stimulants and their pharmacological profiles are well known. For exemple, the classical Amphetamine inhibit the dopamine (DAT) and norepinephrine (NET) transporter but also the vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2) as well as SLC1A1, SLC22A3, and SLC22A5. It is a potent and full agonist of trace amine-associated receptor 1 (TAAR1) and is a weak monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).

Thus, the result of this complex activity increase dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, histamine, serotonin and glutamate neurotransmission in the brain.

So, would a simple dopamine transporter inhibitor would be that recreational ? Since the potency is extremely high, I guess that probably but what kind of effect can I expect ? A pure feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction ? There would be no physical stimulation ?

I also assume that a long term use of this chemical or maybe just a couple of days would cause significant tolerance.

I would also want to know the dose plateau. If by hazard Vaya comes back and read this, what a 20 - 25 mg dose orally be. Light, moderate, strong, heavy ? Would this be something I could snort ?

 

[Dresden]

I would not snort that molecule.

 

[Sleepwalker18]

I've had it between 10-15mg's orally. Which got me slightly above "mild" and I've had it intranasal between 6-18mg's. No burn, not really much different than orally minus the onset. 6mg's was around "mild" 12 was heavy, and 18 was eh, a bit more than I wanted.

 

[QUARE]

Could you describe the effects ? I would like some details.

 

[cpuller]

So suppose I had a problem with n inflamed nose would this make it better if I snort this for a week? It's more of a silly question that came to my mind.

Other than that very pure DARIs do not have to be extremely pleasurable. I find EPH not extremely euphoric and I asked myself why I kept taking it sort of like smoking cigarettes.

 

[Sleepwalker18]

Could you describe the effects ? I would like some details.

Subtle stimulation that lasted about 12-14 hours. Wasn't really gunning for recreational effects, so not as much euphoria as I'd expect with a higher dose. But very very clean and lacks redosing.

 

[immad]

Did it resemble desoxypipradrol?

 

[Sleepwalker18]

Did it resemble desoxypipradrol?

I haven't got around to that one yet, but a few conversations with a friend a few months ago, who has tried both, said that they were like night and day. I'll see if I can find the logs of that conversation to explain why, as I do not remember.

 

[immad]

Strange, aside from the duration, the description matched desoxypipradrol very well.

 

[QUARE]

I totally hated Desoxypipradrol. I probably overdosed anyway cause the drug cause practically no pleasurable effects and only wakefulness. Well, I guess I'll be better with the 2-FMA at last.

 

[Poodles!]

I haven't got around to that one yet, but a few conversations with a friend a few months ago, who has tried both, said that they were like night and day. I'll see if I can find the logs of that conversation to explain why, as I do not remember.

The problem with Desoxypipradrol is it's both night AND day whether you want it or not :/. AFA is a much more sensible duration.

This is shaping up to be probably the cleanest stimulant I've tried to date. I'll need to try it another time when I don't have any Flubromazepam in my system to see if it truly is the gold standard of non-anxiogenic DRI's. I'm only using the Flubro because I've been using too much O-DT lately so I'm feeling a bit tense and achy (I think it's time for a break).

In short it's about as physical as Modafinil but with a bit more vasoconstriction and brings a similiar, yet distinct wakefulness that's low anxiety and has more of a push. I did get a short bout of "butterflys" and a little bit of muscle tension but there was none of the adrenergic jitters or increases in heart rate. Bear in mind that this is coming from someone who has suffered from pretty bad anxiety and panic attacks as a student.

It's not overly euphoric but it puts you in a positive mindset and it's much more suited to aiding focus than Modafinil. Compared to other (N)DRI's it's only the lack of anxiety that makes this stand out. They all pretty much do the same job for me as I don't find re-uptake inhibitors recreational, I just want to find a nice functional stimulant for the odd boost at work that doesn't come with the added toxicity of releasing agents (although I would choose 2-F(M)A any day of the week, if they didn't leave me as drained) and doesn't come with a level of anxiety that can be distracting at times. AFA is definitely a top contender.

This is based on just a couple mg's sub-lingual. Unfortunately my scales aren't accurate enough in the single digit range .

 

[Cosmodope]

Hello,
I've some questions about the recreative doses of AFA,
I've seen that 20-25mg is a good oral dose to start,
But on others threads (I've forget where) i have read, that just a couple of milligrams are needed...
Big difference between 1mg and 20/25mg so i'm a little disapointed...
I will receive this molecule soon and i don't want to OD
I'm not a Stim fiend (i prefer dissociatives and opiates) but this one seems to be a good one.
I've read that is a strong euphoric one but for some it's not so euphoric.
Opinions vary a lot, so any more informations would be appreciate before i begin to experiment this compound
Thank for your answers...

Cheers !

 

[psynce of sound]

Going to order some soon. Just wondering what effects profile it has (if known), dosage and different roas.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Hello,
I've some questions about the recreative doses of AFA,
I've seen that 20-25mg is a good oral dose to start,
But on others threads (I've forget where) i have read, that just a couple of milligrams are needed...
Big difference between 1mg and 20/25mg so i'm a little disapointed...
I will receive this molecule soon and i don't want to OD
I'm not a Stim fiend (i prefer dissociatives and opiates) but this one seems to be a good one.
I've read that is a strong euphoric one but for some it's not so euphoric.
Opinions vary a lot, so any more informations would be appreciate before i begin to experiment this compound
Thank for your answers...

Cheers !

When in doubt, start low.

Just titrate upwards slowly over the course of several hours and/or days.

 

[QUARE]

First attempt : ~~ 25 mg snorted

+ 0:30 : I feel a little something going on but not much. + ~~25 mg snorted.

+ 1:00 : I still don't feel anything much. I wondering if this chemical is active when snorted. I cannot even think that the chemical I got is bullshit since it comes from my favorite vendor which always have excellent stuff.

Now trying my other chemical I got today.

+ 1:15 ~~ 75 mg of O-desmethyltramadol snorted.

+ 1:45 ... What is wrong with those chemicals... I practically feel sober.

+ 2:00 Making a mix of ~~ 50 mg Amfonelic acid + 100 mg of O-DSMT in water. Both seem very water soluble and dissolve instantly. I drink the mix.

+ 2:30 I start to come up on the O-DSMT, I feel a little opiated. No sign of Amfonelic acid yet.

Maybe the effect of Amfonelic acid is too subtle for me but yet I snorted 50 mg and took 50 mg orally and I can't detect any effect from it. I'll try to take it alone some other day.