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    Anybody gone through subutex or suboxone detox recently 
    #1
    Hello everyone I have been on subutex for the last 7 years, I have weaned myself down to 0.5mg (without too much issues suprisingly).

    I am going to continue to wean down to 0.1mg, that was what I was advised by 1 or 2 people, so I just like to ask anybody:

    if they have gotten off long term suboxone or subutex?

    did you wean down? if so to what dose and how often did you wean (basically how long it took you to taper)

    Did you take anything for the acute withdrawals? if so what meds helped?

    did you get these PAWS people talk about alot?

    what did you take to help the PAWS?


    Would appreciate any experiences whether old or recent.

    Thankyou.
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    #2
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    This thread should be able to answer a lot of your questions since it was made by somebody that just came off of suboxone after being on it a while, and some of the people commenting in the thread have done the same.
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    #3
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    Although I'm not a fan of cold turkey, a 7 year period is too long. It's like paying 350$/month for 7 years for a Honda Accord instead of a 29,000$ down payment. The down payment hurts you more but I find that such long rates provide a poor consolation. Sooner or later you have to give back what you took.

    You probably went to an Addictionologist who started the program lol.
    Last edited by Tommyboy; 30-06-2013 at 05:22. Reason: no need to put improper words into your post
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    #4
    But if I tapered down slowly to a small dose that I can handle then shouldn't it be doable at the very least?
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    #5
    I have just tapered off suboxone successfully, well after 8 days I still have fatigue issues, and insomnia problems. Nothing that isn't tolerable. I used for at least 4 years, and was on methadone for 1 year, then relapsed and decided to switch to sub. Reason being is that all the info I came across believed sub to be easier to come off of. I had quit pills and heroin cold turkey twice before....never wanting to feel that way again I opted for maintenance as they call it. REgarldess it is a crutch, for many including myself necessary at the time...a run down o f my taper may help you with making this decision: day 1 : just tired, Day 2 reminded me of mild opiate withdraws, tolerable at its peak, about 10 times less intense that opiates or heroin. Day 3, very tired, cant sleep even with seroquel...Day 4 gasto problems started, lots of water and vitamins, and you basically have to force feed youruself... days 5 6 7, dead tired, sleep absent and losing my mind of boredom, btw dont watch drugs inc on national geographics, almost caused me to ...well you know. after finally getting a bit of sleep on night 8 which was last night, i feel a bit better but just very tired, exercise apparently is great and I now feel at about 70%, i went off at 1mg daily.... i recommend doing the .5 .25 decrease, it may be easier...goodluck to whoever reads this, I am looking forward to feeling better, I am stoked to be free...
    from the north, regards
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    #6
    I was on subutex for a little more than four years straight, with Xanax in the mix at the last year or two...I had a lot of issues...cuz I'm a dope head, duh. I was snorting so much, I think I just enjoyed the feeling of having generic buprenorphine in my nose...After alprazolam came into the picture, and it reminded me of the days with fluffy white dope. I constantly would run through my subutex prescription and my girlfriends subutex and Xanax prescription in two weeks, withdrawal for two weeks, and I repeated this cycle for probably a year. I went completely cold turkey every time, and I finally quit right around this past NYE..if not on the date itself. I was on 8mg at least a day, and I didn't experience any withdrawals. I got bronchitis at about week two, so I couldn't clarify if I was feeling all that or if some withdrawal occurred then. Of course, I was bat shit crazy, but I didn't feel bad.
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    #7
    What was your highest dose sogladitsover? and how long overall did it take you to taper down?

    I am planning on going lower then 0.4 which am currently on now. But don't know how long I should stay on 0.25, some have said 2 months to let your receptors adjust to small bup, and some say 2 weeks. Just don't know.. Am gathering the longer I stay on 0.25 or even 0.125 the more I will be ridding of the half life.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sogladitsover View Post
    I have just tapered off suboxone successfully, well after 8 days I still have fatigue issues, and insomnia problems. Nothing that isn't tolerable. I used for at least 4 years, and was on methadone for 1 year, then relapsed and decided to switch to sub. Reason being is that all the info I came across believed sub to be easier to come off of. I had quit pills and heroin cold turkey twice before....never wanting to feel that way again I opted for maintenance as they call it. REgarldess it is a crutch, for many including myself necessary at the time...a run down o f my taper may help you with making this decision: day 1 : just tired, Day 2 reminded me of mild opiate withdraws, tolerable at its peak, about 10 times less intense that opiates or heroin. Day 3, very tired, cant sleep even with seroquel...Day 4 gasto problems started, lots of water and vitamins, and you basically have to force feed youruself... days 5 6 7, dead tired, sleep absent and losing my mind of boredom, btw dont watch drugs inc on national geographics, almost caused me to ...well you know. after finally getting a bit of sleep on night 8 which was last night, i feel a bit better but just very tired, exercise apparently is great and I now feel at about 70%, i went off at 1mg daily.... i recommend doing the .5 .25 decrease, it may be easier...goodluck to whoever reads this, I am looking forward to feeling better, I am stoked to be free...
    from the north, regards

    What was youre highest dose? and how long were on your last dose? can you say how long it took ya to go down to your last dose? it seems reducing down makes things worse.
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    #9
    Greenlighter
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    .5 mg is basically nothing. I think you're good to go ahead and quit taking it.

    Mod Note: This isn't very sound advice. Lower doses are always better to quit bupe such as .125mg
    Last edited by brutus; 28-07-2013 at 23:00.
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    #10
    I was on subs for a year at 8mgs a day. Once I ran out of strips, I didn't bother to get a refill because I was tired of taking it (basically c/t 8mgs). It sucked pretty bad for the first month although w/d didn't really kick in until the end of the 1st week. All I had on hand was gabapentin, loperamide, and nyquil. The last 3 weeks of that month were horrible, although it wont be anywhere near as bad for you bc you tapered pretty low. I took the gaba for anxiety although I recommend a benzo like Valium if you can get it. Sometimes when the rls got really bad, I took about 20mgs of lope with a tbsp of Nyquil which helped a lot. Literally every time I took the lope, I felt like I was coming out of withdrawal and felt normal for a bit (but backed up bc it constipates you too).

    PAWS was pretty bad too (again, mostly bc I stopped such a high dose w/o tapering). The next 2 months were spent trying to motivate myself to do ANYTHING. All I wanted to do was lay down all day, no motivation to speak of, high anxiety/felt depressed...it sucked lol. But it DEFINITELY got better after I slowly started working out. There's not much you can take (as far as meds go) to help PAWS, just exercise as much as you can without overdoing it. Running helped a lot. I tried adderall on a few occasions and it made everything worse. I crashed twice as hard as normal and went w/o sleep for like 3 days once.

    Don't focus too much on medications. I suggest you try to get a good muscle-relaxing benzo like diazepam but keep the doses low and ONLY take it when you truly need it. Stay away from diphenhydramine, it will only make RLS worse. I doubt you will experience a 1/4 of what I did.The most important part is perseverance, soldiering through it when it when it gets tough.
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    #11
    Bluelighter
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    Clonidine, and other alpha 2 adrenergic agonists, are so much better at alleviating multiple symptoms of wd and the addiction potential is far less compared to benzos. Benzos really just help keep your mind off the withdrawal and alleviate some anxiety while clonidine regulates your hot/cold flashes, tachycardia, blood pressure, sweating, anxiety (albeit much less than benzos), and puts a huge dent in the staple of opioid wd: restless legs. When I went to rehab, the first couple days of methadone wd they coupled it with valium and the wd was so manageable I was actually in a good mood and smiling at times. Without the valium and just having clonidine wd was still twice as manageable as it would be without it, but I was much more preoccupied with what I was going through to be in a good mood. But the positivity that the huge relief of the symptoms brought was such a blessing.
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    #12
    Thanks guys do appreciate your advice and support.

    Even though am under 0.5 it's still relatively a high dose, is it not? thats still around 3 months of subs in the receptors no? there was someone who stopped from 0.5 and suffered hell for 1 month, then PAWS for 6 months, and after that a phase of post-PAWS until he relapsed claiming he could not take it anymore.. Maybe it's important the slope you use to get to a low dose rather then just stopping at a low dose? if someone tapers quick from 1mg to 0 ( in 1 month) then is it obvious they will feel withdrawals and the PAWS? because they did not level out and get stable on their final piece of sub? you have to wait for the half life to level out and this could be mean much more then 1 month no? like I said I think it's important the slope we use to get to a low dose and the time taken, rather then just the low final piece of dose. Or else going from something like 1mg to 0.25 in 1 month is like going from 1mg to 0.8mg, meaning that the half life is still around 0.8, so they are basically jumping off from 0.8mg..It took me a year to feel the full affects of 4mgs when I first started subs, that tells me tapering slow is the way to go? the sub slowly builds up and accumulates the longer and more you take it, and you do not feel the subs turning on you until a year or 2 later, so to unwind that down a slow taper is wise is it not? particularly the point of staying on 0.25mg for long as possible to let your receptors adjust to reality and with less subs in the receptors. Am I correct folks? then again who can really stay on the last dose for long as possible? that is why I am thinking go on a SAO for however long it can take to taper to 0.

    Let's not forget I've been on these suckers for 7 years, and yes I have been on low doses the last few years so hopefully that is working in my favour. i was thinking maybe I should use time release mscontin to go off that last 0.5? I read somewhere that this is not a bad shout at all. If it can make me feel half good then isn't that better then to feel not good going from 0.5 to 0? what are the cons in this method? am guessing the pros are that I will feel at least mentally ok and function while on the mscontin together with tapering that last bit of 0.5..If there are any cons and disadvantages in this matter I would certainly like to hear or see them.

    Thankyou again.
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    #13
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    you will feel some discomfort no mater what but if you went cold turkey off the .5mg a day you take now it won't be too bad the worst part is how long bupe wds typically last
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    #14
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    if they have gotten off long term suboxone or subutex?
    Yes, was on maintenance for 6 years, now I am free.

    did you wean down? if so to what dose and how often did you wean (basically how long it took you to taper)
    No, cold turkey @24mg daily if taken as directed (sublingual)

    Did you take anything for the acute withdrawals? if so what meds helped?
    gabapentin, clonazepam and ketamine. If I were to do it again I'd not take the gabapentin, reduce the usage of clonazepam and add more ketamine instead. The whole thing was an epic failure since I got addicted to gabapentin instead.

    did you get these PAWS people talk about alot?
    Yes, they lasted almost half a year.

    what did you take to help the PAWS?
    weed only

    I wish you the best.
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    #15
    if they have gotten off long term suboxone or subutex?
    Yes, 145 days clean from 1 year on 8mg Suboxone

    did you wean down? if so to what dose and how often did you wean (basically how long it took you to taper)
    No, cold turkey from alternating 4/8mg doses (start of my planned taper) gave up and said "fuck it I just want off now"

    Did you take anything for the acute withdrawals? if so what meds helped?
    Lots of stuff (not 100% sure what really helped and what was just placebo). I'll start from most to least likely of helpfulness: Imodium, Weed, Seroquel/Trazodone for craziness and sleep, Fish oil, B-Complex vitamin, Multi-vitamin, L-Tyrosine, Vitamin D, and a few other supplements and amino acids that probably did nothing. I tried adderall to help with the ZERO energy from acute WDs, helped temporarily then slept off the come-down, risky strategy at best.

    did you get these PAWS people talk about alot?
    Yes, I'm nearly 5 months clean and PAWS have gotten extremely manageable and occurrences of symptoms are much less frequent vs 1-3 months off sub. These include: anxiety, depression, lack of energy and general feeling of discontent and lethargy.

    what did you take to help the PAWS?
    Weed, Vitamin B Complex, Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, EXERCISE, meditation and reading.


    Hope any of this helps and good luck. I just got back from a 45 minute workout and feel great but damn it was hard to get to the gym today. Fight through the negative thoughts and you will prevail.
    Last edited by Wake_of_the_Flood; 27-07-2013 at 22:57. Reason: Syntax
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    #16
    Bluelighter
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    I hope to be off this crap in a few weeks myself. I took 8mg for about 7 months and over the past 1.5 months I've gotten down to 1mg, tomorrow marks the drop to 0.5mg.

    I was thinking about stopping after 0.5mg 2 weeks or so into it. I know I can do it because I don't consider failure an option. I have been very successful at being good while on the subs, only tried using 3 times and the last epic failure of a high I decided I'm done forever.

    My problem is I have a full time job and its often still hard to get out of bed without dosing regardless of how small. Do you guys think its possible to jump at 0.5mg and still keep up appearances at work? Time off is not an option (no paid time and they are considering lay offs I worry a long time off would prove I'm not needed) either way it has to be done. It will work because I'm excited to make it work and prove to myself I'm capable of anything.
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    #17
    How I wish I was on sub for only a year and/or under...

    It varies great deal in how sub affects people. Some get PAWS for years yet others 6 months, or even 3 months...I do not know if tapering will be of benefit after reading some horror stories. At the same time I keep thinking it must be logical that a taper can help, surely with less subs in the system it means less duration in withdrawals and PAWS? I think the trick is to go down to a low dose and then stay there in order to let the half life wind down..

    I still have not see many cons of going on short acting opiates to taper the final piece of 0.5. I know the risk of re-addiction, but if you can keep that under control which I think is possible, then isn't it better to use something like MS-Contin for couple of months together with lowering the subs?
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Universal_General View Post
    How I wish I was on sub for only a year and/or under...

    It varies great deal in how sub affects people. Some get PAWS for years yet others 6 months, or even 3 months...I do not know if tapering will be of benefit after reading some horror stories. At the same time I keep thinking it must be logical that a taper can help, surely with less subs in the system it means less duration in withdrawals and PAWS? I think the trick is to go down to a low dose and then stay there in order to let the half life wind down..

    I still have not see many cons of going on short acting opiates to taper the final piece of 0.5. I know the risk of re-addiction, but if you can keep that under control which I think is possible, then isn't it better to use something like MS-Contin for couple of months together with lowering the subs?
    IMO it sounds like a terrible idea to use a short acting opiate to get off a long acting opiate. The reason you got on Suboxone in the first place was to stop using short acting opiates and because the acute w/ds are much more manageable going off Suboxone, and since you are down so low on your taper, the acute w/ds should be a piece of cake. That said, if you use the short acting opiate as a reward for being 72 hours off of suboxone and STRICTLY limit yourself to 1-2 days worth used only to eliminate w/d symptoms, it could psychologically help you getting out of the suboxone mindset, but it is equally likely it will backfire and you'll just be dragging out your acute w/ds longer and maybe making them harsher than if you just suck it up.

    Onto the PAWS/tapering question. I believe tapering, if done correctly, will help decrease the severity of PAWS symptoms since you have probably experienced some form of opiate w/d symptoms during your tapering process. Every time you feel opiate withdrawal, your neurotransmitters are firing and the healing process is occurring. This rarely happens when on therapeutic doses of LAOs however since you are "high" 24/7 and the build up of previous half-lives stops you from ever experiencing withdrawal symptoms i.e. repairing your receptors. Don't expect PAWS to be non-existent, but I doubt you will experience them as bad as someone who went CT from 8mg for example.

    Side-note: Don't take MDMA during PAWS, I made that mistake and it resulted in several weeks of amplified anxiety and depression.

    szuko000:

    I started a new job ~20 days after going CT off 8mg Suboxone and things have went pretty well. It will definitely be harder to get to work and to focus, but if you can make other positive changes to your lifestyle during the sub detox, you should be ok and be able to keep up your appearances at work. It will take a lot of commitment and desire to change your life. The acute symptoms might be harder to hide, but since you have tapered so low, your symptoms should relatively minor.
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