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What would you say if someone said DXM is the safest hallucinogen for a beginner?

Nooo

Nooo

Greenlighter
Joined
May 18, 2013
Messages
21
Too many kids who don't know anything about the power of hallucinogens and how to respect them will just guzzle away a bottle of cough syrup.

Would you say that DXM is the safest hallucinogen to be used by teens? Do you think it messes a lot of kids up mentally because they don't know how to respect it and handle and cope with a bad trip?

Would it be safer for kids to jump into hallucinogens with psilocybin? LSD? Ketamine?

And before I get people saying "DXM isn't a hallucinogen, it's a disassociative" No, hallucinogens are both disassociatives and psychedelics.
 
Yes well this forum covers not only psychedelics but also dissociatives, deliriants and other odd ones, we needn't quarrel about the semantics. :)

Each substance or family of substances similar to each other in effect has its own dangers and advantages. Generally speaking, but also for beginners.
Not everyone may agree on what is advantageous, but by comparison if a drug immobilises you that can make it safer to explore inner worlds. Considering dissociative drugs, immobilisation via anaesthesia can matter a lot for the course of a trip. Especially for someone who is not sure what to expect (without a frame of reference), physical safety partially depends on what you are actually doing versus what you think you are doing. If physically you are doing nothing because a drug makes it almost impossible to walk or navigate any space, that can be an improvement of safety compared to say a person who becomes delirious on 2C-T-7.

Other drugs such as 2C-B, 2C-D or 2C-C - the rather easy side of phenethylamines - have quite different advantages and disadvantages. Usually there isn't much immobilisation or behavioral dysfunction (I am talking reasonably low dosed). But in my opinion, that is not really necessary.
Which brings me to another issue which you apparently focus on here: mental safety.

Classical psychedelics have an all-round effect profile: they can do most of the things psychedelics can do and compared to some other psychedelics those effects are relatively spreaded or balanced. But they can be strong. Beginners should watch their dosage, set and setting for sure. That is always the case, but the 2C drugs I previously mentioned can be more forgiving in that respect.

I don't find DXM particularly safe or ideal for beginners, the effects are very varied in the sense that a group of people find recreational, entheogenic and psychedelic value in it while others like me experience a vast amount of confusion, memory loss and other side-effects with it. In my opinion the drug's effects profile is not a clean one, and the fact that a considerable part of the population has the appropriate tolerance for the side-effects does not really change that in my perspective. Surely, some people find DXM special and they may keep coming back to it but the hit or miss quality is not what I appreciate for a beginner.

Beyond that, I don't see what point can be proven discussing what 'kids should jump in with', if the choice is between LSD, ketamine, DXM, psilocybin, or another hallucinogen, except that any of them can be devastating if taken to far and what is valuable for a beginner is something relatively consistent and trustworthy if approached with care. It is typical for hallucinogens to be unpredictable compared to say amphetamine... but I would choose a mild phenethylamine or mild tryptamine for a beginner over DXM any day of the week.

Shall I merge this with the Psychedelic Beginner Thread? (Probably not considering the emphasis on DXM?)
 
i think MDMA is the best thing to give somebody to introduce them to the world of drugs beyond MJ. its slightly psychedelic to a virgin and will give them a very positive experience unlike tryptamines or dissociatives that have the potential to destroy their world and they wont know what is happening to them.
 
Solipsis is right, but I'd add that no kids should be taking psychedelic or dissociative drugs, only adults should take them.
 
That is a topic for another debate, which we have a central thread on (the psychedelics and age thread). The word kids as used here, I interpret as a colloquialism for adolescents who are freshly introduced to these drugs.

MDMA has psychedelic effects and of course it is grand but it is in my opinion a poor example of an introduction to hallucinogens. Be careful with a false sense of security, which is what someone taking MDMA may get if there is the impression that hallucinogens taken down the road are as easygoing. MDMA provides a strong "push", in my opinion it is good for a beginner to gradually learn to deal with providing that push yourself. Which may be the "key" to getting the most out of subtle psychedelics: people who find them too mild might be used to being taken by the hand.
Mushrooms are a tough teacher that I would not necessarily recommend for beginners, but they are a good example of a classic psychedelic with a sort of 'push' or mind of its own. The push is sort of a metaphor for the propensity of a drug to get the energy in your body and mind flowing.
 
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shit i think i would give somebody mdma before MJ to introduce them to drugs period, it is the most positive drug out there i think. highest probability that they will have a good experience

Solipsis said:
MDMA has psychedelic effects and of course it is grand but it is in my opinion a poor example of an introduction to hallucinogens. Be careful with a false sense of security, which is what someone taking MDMA may get if there is the impression that hallucinogens taken down the road are as easygoing.
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i agree, you just have to let them know that other drugs can be much more scary. but as far as easing somebody into getting used to an altered state of consciousness (which i don't think mdma alters you really, you are more you than you have ever been). I think MJ would be the second stepping stone I would use. my first times smoking MJ were very psychedelic, I hallucinated on the level of a trip.

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DXM is not a good one to introduce people if you take too high of a dose....out of body experiences and scary headtrips are possible. Plus at a low dose they will feel drunk and uncoordinated. MDMA keeps your motor skills and ratioinal thinking in tact, less scary.
 
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DXM is a nasty, dirty drug, in my opinion. I get horrible side-effects with it, like Solipsis.

I'd probably recommend a smallish dose of 2C-B for a beginner.
 
Morphling said:
DXM is a nasty, dirty drug, in my opinion. I get horrible side-effects with it, like Solipsis.

I'd probably recommend a smallish dose of 2C-B for a beginner.
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i used to think that but i gave it a second chance......its not that bad when you get used to it. the after glow it leaves me with for a few days after makes me feel amazing like i'm rolling and full of energy
 
I would give someone mdma before 2cb, 2cb can get weird on someone that isn't ready
 
As far as the subjective effects go, I would recommend lsd or 2c-b for a first timer. Both tend to be very gentle and have few side effects. Some people dislike the strong body feelings of 2c-b but for someone who enjoys it, it's great. Lsd would be ideal if it weren't for the fact that it lasts a lot longer. If there was a psychedelic that had the exact same effects as lsd but only lasted 3-4 hours, that would be perfect for a newbie, imo. As far as dxm goes, a low dose(2nd plateau) would be ok for a beginner, but there are better alternatives)
 
If you take it easy with the 2C-B dose, I think that is the best you can do. Every real introduction to psychedelia will come with the off chance of 'going weird on someone', that comes with the territory, intrinsically.

I think you are talking about a much more broad introduction to 'the altered state', LucidSDreamr. Whether or not a person should take a dissociative or psychedelic, mild or strong, depends on what the person is looking for or expecting.
 
Solipsis said:
I don't find DXM particularly safe or ideal for beginners, the effects are very varied in the sense that a group of people find recreational, entheogenic and psychedelic value in it while others like me experience a vast amount of confusion, memory loss and other side-effects with it. In my opinion the drug's effects profile is not a clean one, and the fact that a considerable part of the population has the appropriate tolerance for the side-effects does not really change that in my perspective
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I agree and want to add that DXM can provide totally different experiences in the same individual at the same dose.
For example I had 2 very positive trips @ 300mg and one which was terrible fever-dreamish with the same dose, set and formulation.

I haven't touched it since and I also think that the allergy/enzyme-problem has potential for negative thoughts even if one is not directly affected. Similar thing with hallucinogenic RCs regarding the unknown side-effects etc.
(For me) it is not the perfect base for a positive experience compared to the physical harmless Psychedelics like LSD & Psilocybin.
This is the main reason why I don't think I will try the NBOMEs. I'd be interested in what other people think about this thought.
 
DickTate said:
I agree and want to add that DXM can provide totally different experiences in the same individual at the same dose.
For example I had 2 very positive trips @ 300mg and one which was terrible fever-dreamish with the same dose, set and formulation.

I haven't touched it since and I also think that the allergy/enzyme-problem has potential for negative thoughts even if one is not directly affected. Similar thing with hallucinogenic RCs regarding the unknown side-effects etc.
(For me) it is not the perfect base for a positive experience compared to the physical harmless Psychedelics like LSD & Psilocybin.
This is the main reason why I don't think I will try the NBOMEs. I'd be interested in what other people think about this thought.
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the problem with tryptamines like lsd and psilo are that they are not as gentle on the psyche like phenethylamines and Nmda antagonists, i feel that can more easily cause fear and depression within a trip resulting in a bad trip
 
I understand your bias, but just to add a little nuance: there are certainly phenethylamines and arylcyclohexylamines that are tough like 2C-P or the heavy caliber coinnaisseur dissociatives and also tryptamines that have the potential to be super mild like 4-HO-DiPT (for me at least). Not everyone will agree with those specifics but my point is it varies, and also most of the psychologically mild ones I am thinking of are also easy on the body. It's not mutually exclusive.
 
DXM was actually the first thing I experimented with, but I was 26 at the time and better equipped mentally to handle it than I would have been if I was a teenager. When I started doing 2C-I later on, I was surprised by how much gentler and friendlier those experiences were in comparison, even though it seemed a bit sketchy to me to be consuming some obscure research chemical I had purchased over the internet instead of something I bought at the local pharmacy. If I had to do it over again I would have started with the 2C-I before trying DXM (or any other dissociative).
 
my first trip ever was on DXM and it was glorious. Kind of a let down to later try LSD/shrooms and all the RCs and realize they are nowhere near the strength of a 4th plateau DXM trip :)

i wouldn't say DXM is safe but it's not really dangerous either, so long as you don't end up using it every single day for months, and in that sense it's only unsafe because your behavior will be affected in strange ways.
 
I think dxm is a great choice for someones first trip as far as physical safety and mental stability goes. It only causes ego loss in large doses and it wont mindfuck you like tryptamines. Serotonin syndrome is the only physical concern I know of and its only an issue if someone is taking certain medications. The only down side is its addiction potential. I had a HUGE addiction to dxm for 3 out of 4 years of highschool. I do believe I was predispositioned as I was already very fond of opiates and infatuated with the idea of tripping so NMDA agonists fit the bill perfectly. The nausea and other nasty side effects of dxm probably negates this potential for alot of people.
 
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i think dxm at a low dose is a good beginner psychedelic, it doesn't warp your mind as much as serotonin agonists.
 
I'd give someone pot before any other psychedelic most likely, and it's a shame that 2C-B isn't widely available because that definitely takes the cake for easy-introductory-ness IMO. Such a wonderful thing, 2C-B is.
 
Pot before dxm for sure. I would say one would be far better off with using one of the "big 4" first. Dxm doesn't really prepare you for a psychedelic trip, imo atleast.
 
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