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    Extracting psilocybin from mushrooms without ethyl alcohol? 
    #1
    Is there an effective way of doing this without ethyl alcohol?
    Its illegal where I live, so that's not an option. I heard someone say vinegar but I don't know. I've been searching for a good 45 minutes with some many different 'theories'.
    I'll keep looking but if you guys know a great solution please let me know.
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    #2
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    methanol aka methyl hydrate

    safe if you evaporate it all at the end
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    methanol aka methyl hydrate

    safe if you evaporate it all at the end
    Is it a Home Depot hardware store type thing? Or is it a chemical I'd have to order online?
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    #4
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    it should be a hardware store item

    http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushroo...journal1.shtml
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    #5
    could i do it with naptha? and is their a certain quanitity? like can i do it with an eighth?
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    #6
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    Hmm.. Could you use Iso alcohol? Or vodka?
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    #7
    Will Denatured Alcohol work?
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    #8
    Denatured Alcohol tends to be ethanol, with methanol or isopropanol or acetone etc. to stop people using it as cheap drink. These all tend to be volatile substances, so should evaporate off but if you can get your hands on 90%~ ethanol, its unlikely to be any different imo.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPorter View Post
    Denatured Alcohol tends to be ethanol, with methanol or isopropanol or acetone etc. to stop people using it as cheap drink. These all tend to be volatile substances, so should evaporate off but if you can get your hands on 90%~ ethanol, its unlikely to be any different imo.
    So is that a yes that would work? This guy left a review saying:
    I recently purchased this product after the MSDS showed about 90% ethanol/10%methanol content - higher ethanol content will burn more clean and hot. This was by far the highest ratio for a denatured alcohol I was able to find that is commercially available. Tried it out in a few homemade backpacking alcohol stoves and it was excellent with a clean flame and no detectable soot buildup on the pots used over the flame.
    I highly recommend this as far as use as a clean burning fuel source at a decent price (~$0.23 per fl oz).
    And would you need to be 21 to buy it? I'm 19. I could say its for school purposes for making tinctures and isolating chemicals from plants.
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    #10
    Because you can't drink it, I don't think so. They'll look at you in a weird way, but eh
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kidklmx View Post
    Because you can't drink it, I don't think so. They'll look at you in a weird way, but eh
    So that product will work fine? Haha, sorry if I seem redundant. Trying to organize my supplies.
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    #12
    Methanol could be quite dangerous (you go blind if you ingest a certain amount of it), but yeah since you're evaporating it, there's no harm

    Otherwise, try Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA)
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kidklmx View Post
    Methanol could be quite dangerous (you go blind if you ingest a certain amount of it), but yeah since you're evaporating it, there's no harm

    Otherwise, try Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA)
    Well its 90% Ethanol and 10% Methanol. That should be fine correct? I heard ISO doesn't work as well. Now will this turn it into a tincture or crystals?
    I really don't want to go blind. Lol. But I need the best alternative. I'd like to make it a crystal/powder base but tincture is fine too. Lotta guides require 190 proof alcohol, which I need a special permit for.
    Last edited by Anon610; 31-05-2013 at 11:41.
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    #14
    I wouldn't ingest a methanol tincture, so it's safe to say you'll get crystals. Was just pointing out the blindness part for you to be careful
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kidklmx View Post
    I wouldn't ingest a methanol tincture, so it's safe to say you'll get crystals. Was just pointing out the blindness part for you to be careful
    Alright, sorry if I seem dumb right now, I'm really tired and my cognitive skills are horrendous.
    BUT so it will work with that stuff I showed. Just make sure it evaporates all the way?
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    #16
    Make sure that you have minimal liquid left, evaporate it all!
    It's very good stuff to use for an extract.
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    #17
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    Methyl hydrate. Go to an automotive shop and ask for it, they use it for air brake antifreeze.
    Although if alcohol is illegal where you live I'm guessing its a middle eastern country, they may have no need for air brake antifreeze
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    #18
    What about acetone? It's typically sold as nail polish removal, but I think marine shops and other hardware stores may also stock it in larger quantity for fiberglass hull cleaning. Also not as toxic as methanol (but a mighty irritant so you'd also want to make sure it all evaporates).
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    #19
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    Don't substitute random shit like naptha, acetone etc. Just go out and buy some methanol. It is not controlled. People use it as brake line de-icer, or as a fuel for camp stoves.

    There is no need to use denatured ethanol, acetone, naptha, ethyl acetate, dichloromethane, hot water, ether, petroleum ether, diglyme, toluene, PEG 400, isopropanol, butanol, butyl acetate, isopropyl myristate, dimethylformamide, DMSO, acetic acid, propanoic acid, or anything else.

    Use methanol. It selectively dissolves the psilocin and psilocybin and leaves everything else behind. Put chopped up mushrooms in methanol. Warm the methanol gently, with a warm water bath. Keep it warm for 2-4 hours. Drain the methanol. Let it evaporate.

    You can recrystallise the psilocin/psilocybin from a small amount of boiling water if you are concerned about ingesting traces of methanol. But you'd ingest more MeOH in a typical glass of fruit juice than that trapped in crystals of psilocin.

    Again, don't substitute anything else. Just use the damn methanol. Anything else is going to be more difficult to use, less selective, or more expensive.

    footnote: you can use ethanol if you're desperate, but it will take longer to evaporate.
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    #20
    Bluelighter .:Holy::Toast:.'s Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me the benefits of this extraction?
    Faster onset? Different feeling high?
    As well what what are the yields around if done properly?
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    #21
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    The benefit is in having an easily measured dose form of psilocin, so instead of guessing at potency you can just take 10mg of psilocin and be done with it.

    According to Erowid, complete extraction of the psilocin was achieved in 24h@room temp or 1 hour @ 45C.
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    #22
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    True, that is an advantage, but extracted psilocin / psilocybin is reported to be quite unstable after evaporation for some reason although I am not sure if those who reported this used different solvents and accidentally extracted enzymes along with it that degrade the alkaloids.
    In any case, an alcoholic solution is reported to be the best way to store it. Mushroom extract apparently just isn't the same as synthetic psilocin regarding stability. Again if you are going to ingest it, make sure you use something like vodka and not methanol.

    FYI, if you homogenize your mushroom batch by powdering / crumbling as fine as possible and mixing it - you also have consistent potency. Disadvantage is you still need to titrate your dose with every batch.

    If methanol is as effective as you say I might consider the extract near pure for all intents and purposes, in other cases you possibly still have to adjust your dosage according to purity just like with crude cactus extracts.

    I have started again with cultivation (like in the past Cubensis, but I will also start with Panaeolus Cyanescens and medicinal / gourmet mushrooms soon), when I start building up a surplus I intend to do extraction and maybe even recrystallisation experiments. Even if the crystal is unstable, it's fun isn't it?
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    #23
    ^ could it be that the methanol extraction would yield the freebase compound? if that's the case, converting into a salt would be good, right?
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    #24
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    Nah I just checked, the pKa of psilocin's amine is 8.47 and psilocybin is negatively charged above a pH of 4. If I am not mistaken both point to them existing primarily as salts in the tissue and I don't believe methanol would convert them into freebase form.

    Furthermore Jochen Gartz wrote that there is significant enzyme activity of the phosphatase type with aqueous / acidic extractions.

    Ethyl alcohol is reported to work but methyl alcohol is superior. Apparently as we are used to with these indolols extracts have the tendency to turn into goo, but I am not sure if this is mostly due to residual water from improperly dehydrated and/or low grade solvent.
    In any case it sounds like the psilocybin is readily dephosphorylated and the alkaloids easily further degraded / oxidated / hydrated. So best is to extract with dried methanol absolute and immediately recrystallise from boiling water, unfortunately I don't know if you can only do that with psilocybin or with psilocin or a mix as well. Obviously you would lose some there but it could possibly kill any residual enzymes.

    Still not sure if you can really yield high quality psilocin or alkaloid mix this way.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by .:Holy::Toast:. View Post
    Methyl hydrate. Go to an automotive shop and ask for it, they use it for air brake antifreeze.
    Although if alcohol is illegal where you live I'm guessing its a middle eastern country, they may have no need for air brake antifreeze
    No, I live in Pennsylvania. I need to get a permit for anything stronger than 151 proof alcohol.
    So things like Everclear are illegal here. Thus I need a safe substitute for grain alcohol.
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