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25C-NBOMe death in Texas

I would seldom say this but these 2ci derivatives should not be available. The only reason they exist is to circumvent laws on the decent phens. The dosage ranges are just asking for trouble. Of course if governments hadn't banned the originals.....
 
Well, it's an overdose.. Still, really sad for the families involved though, wish them the best!
 
Found the TT to sound like we are annoyed and bored by this which seems a little uncalled for. Changed it.

Whether or not this was an overdose, I don't trust these compounds either - even if with drugs like the DOX compounds there are also sometimes incidents, they don't seem quite as unpredictable and unexplainable.
 
Sucks but its whats to be expected from a society that will not tolerate recreational use of substances. A zero tolerance policy leads to zero needed education, besides, eat/snort/smoke this for a period of time and you will W/D! I'm the sort of person that believes nearly every chemical should be available to the person who seeks it as it is their choose in the matter and these articles will never change that but damn if it doesn't piss me off. You'd think if those faggot police/medical professionals were truly worried about the kids using them, they would release needed information, like doses, duration, and the like, yet instead they just bumble around like fucking idiots hoping some news story will outlaw the chemical before their kid gets their hands on it....... I mean its like a gun, people will try to tell you guns are inherently dangerous, but guns aren't dangerous until they enter the hand of a living being! Same goes for chemicals, for the most part its not the chemicals themselves that are terribly dangerous but the people who try to use them and the manner in which they try/go about it. Unless you mean the dose response curve, RPM, then you might as well add LSD to that category which has no known sole death cases.

Also really hoped this wasn't the US, this shit is the last thing we need. The damn "2c-E" OD's stirred up enough legislation and trouble for us......

Lastly...the fuck? In the story it says the police will need to "test to see if any illegal chemicals show up" so they know whether they can charge him? What are these local cops dumb as fuck? You can charge a person if they give someone a chemical that kills them even if it isn't illegal, ala the Blaine OD/all the other evidence. Oh and its to bad, I had hoped 25C had a better pharma than 25I in a sense and was less dangerous. I'm fairly sure it is, once again in a sense but I wouldn't have thought it could kill unless at higher end doses(considering people have died from mere mgs of 25I)though they don't say how much was ingested and they say insufflation was the ROA so for all we know they racked up a 1-30mg line(if they're not educated then they probably wouldn't even know what mcg's are let alone which drugs are active at those amounts considering 99% aren't...).
 
Solipsis: Based on what though? I guess with the non-OD cases there is an enzyme missing or maybe there wasn't a whole lot magnesium in that person's body, because they seem to die/run in to trouble from the same symptoms as the OD chases. At any rate, I don't think these are that dangerous if you keep your dose low and your body healthy (that's thinking outside of people not knowing what they're doing for a moment, but you have that with other drugs too)

That being said, the distrust ADDers like you have with these chemicals worries me a lot

And Help?!?!, I think there should be some limitation on chemicals available. Now you don't want everyone to be able to get some ricin, now do you? In all seriousness though, even if we'll never get these chemicals (psychedelics) commercially in a legal way, I think there still should be a lot more research done. I'm very sure these deaths could be prevented in some way, but we just don't know how.

I can understand perfectly that a conservative-type person would never allow for "drugs' to be taken, for a lot of people that's just scary. If we want "them" to listen to us, then we'll have to listen to them too.
 
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Also really hoped this wasn't the US, this shit is the last thing we need.

Last time I checked, Texas is in the US, yes.

Solipsis: Based on what though?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...Discussion?p=11422495&viewfull=1#post11422495

Although those ideas about 5-HT2B are a bit outdated and I updated them in a recent thread about NBOMe compounds not being as selective as we once believed:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...as-we-once-believed?highlight=nbome+selective

Basically the evidence IMO rather just points at 5-HT2A itself, and even though LSD and DOX compounds are potent per milligram, these NBOMe's may just take the cake regarding efficacy at those receptors which could not only account for the psychedelia but it could overload a nervous system. More about that in the thread I just linked to.

The jury may still be out, but I am entitled to an opinion and gut-feeling before we have all the facts and I have concerns in part exactly because we are missing those facts. Honestly I don't really care that there are people who are indignant or non-plussed by people like me who express their distrust which in their eyes may not be justified. You can find people like that discussing the matter in the long-term and short-term side effect subthreads of the NBOMe drug class (check the Index for links).
Everything I know about these compounds thus far made me reconsider wanting to take them again. If that is an example for others, so be it - the goal of the psychedelic community is not to keep giving all compounds a chance, each person has to weigh what they find responsible and even if deaths can be avoided with these compounds there are still other reasons why I think it may not be the best idea to unleash a full agonist on your 5-HT2AR's. Maybe some compounds deserve certain exile, like 5-MeO-AMT. Then again, it is not about consensus but making up your own mind. And I can make up my own mind, thanks very much. :)
Even if taking magnesium helps, what you might want to ask yourself is if you think tripping on this stuff is worth taking a drug that makes you need magnesium to keep you alive - if you catch my drift. My point is not a literal one, but about different ways to think about this.
 
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This has to be like the 3rd person i have seen die from snorting nbome class drugs. Just because you can snort something doesnt mean you should. If the dose is 500 mics or whatever and you snort a line, thats a huge overdose. I don't think its going to be long until there is an nbome ban.
 
Found the TT to sound like we are annoyed and bored by this which seems a little uncalled for. Changed it.
It wasn't my intention to make it sound like that, I just meant it's the first 25C-NBOMe death. So good you changed it.
 
yea they probably ended up sniffing about a 50mg line and oded. obviously didnt do any research.
 
RPM, then you might as well add LSD to that category which has no known sole death cases.
I think I didn't make myself clear. The drugs only exist because the ones that are tried and tested (and we know how to use safely) are banned. I meant they should not exist. Not that they should be banned.

Also, there is the issue of safety of the drugs themselves. Lets take 25I-NBOMe as an example. Even assuming that it is as safe as 2c-i, and also assuming that there is a one to one correlation between the two substances potency per mg, that would give it an ld-50 of .685 mg/kg ( taking median common dose of 15mg and .7mg for 2c-i and 25I-NBOMe respectively and the LD50 for 2c-i as 14.7 mg/kg - (.7/15) *14.7=.685 - ) compare that to the ld-50 of LSD of 5mg/kg. You get my point. I admit that their are allot of assumptions in there, but since we don't know the actual ld50 for these new drugs it's the best I can do. The bottom line is if you rack up a line of acid you will be fine, do it with 25I-NBOMe and it's game over.

I think I am essentially saying the same thing as Solipsis but with less knowledge of psycho-pharmacology.
 
And Help?!?!, I think there should be some limitation on chemicals available. Now you don't want everyone to be able to get some ricin, now do you? In all seriousness though, even if we'll never get these chemicals (psychedelics) commercially in a legal way, I think there still should be a lot more research done. I'm very sure these deaths could be prevented in some way, but we just don't know how.

I can understand perfectly that a conservative-type person would never allow for "drugs' to be taken, for a lot of people that's just scary. If we want "them" to listen to us, then we'll have to listen to them too.
Clearly thats going to be a negative! I'm talking about psychoactive chemicals for the most part though in all honestly, I do wish we could live in a world where you could just buy ricin if you had some need for it or something but clearly there would be one to many with ill intent purchasing. I'm all for personal responsibility which is highly repeat highly lacking in this world, if a person even has the slightest, repeat slightest "excuse" they'll scapegoat like a mother fucker. "Oh noes my poor babies sons died because of dem evil droogs......kill/ban droogs!", that sort of shit, you rarely ever hear a person say "My son was an adult and unfortunately choose to make a poor decision which resulted in the loss of his life...". Plus I can never get over the worlds obsession with the its right this way but wrong that way approach to pretty much everything. If your of age its your responsibility to know certain things and especially to learn certain things. We definitely need more research but the finger in ears DEA won't ever see it that way. With a war that has the end goal of total annihilation, in their mind theres probably no need for research as one day the chemical will just be non-existent thus phasing out the problem. Oh and why would we listen to them? I mean, i'll surely be civil and polite and hear what they have to say, but listen? That is a different story(it would be like if good ol' Abe had sat down with plantation owners to listen/hear their side of the story before deciding......8o)....... If your wrong, your wrong, and if your right, your right! Not to much inbetween on that one. If on the other hand you mean listen to their concerns and then quell them with knowledge, i'm all for that! ;)

Solip, I know, I mean I just really hoped this didn't happen in the US as last time a psych OD occurred there was a whole legislation shit storm and clubbing of 2c-e/its name.

I also have to agree that theres just something off with the NBOMe's as well. At first I was excited but after seeing the deaths/OD's occur pretty quickly/really non linearly as well, I just thought "Oh fuck...". Its just not concurrent at all with other psychedelics. They seem to have a fairly linear dose response curve yet one person will die from 1mg while someone will take 4mgs or more and survive? Theres just something not correct about that, when it happened once, I somewhat shrugged it off as that person maybe being in poor health/etc. etc. but when it began happening again and again? I mean look at most psychedelics, their OD point is usually multiple times higher than the heaviest dose people usually take and most psychedelics don't even have established LD50s as no one knowingly at least thus far has died from them. I once read a report on here where someone with terminal cancer purposefully ingested somewhere near a gram of 2c-I and survived. It didn't even really seem to crazy from what I remember, at least from what I would imagine eating a gram of 2c-I to be like.....

Also lol @ fag, I simply interpreted it the same why they did, but once Solip brought it up, it certainly could look like that.
 
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Good reasoning (and I agree for the most part, full-agonists have proven to be bad), but in terms of addiction I've only found the one B&D on here and the addiction doesn't seem to be a physical thing apart from the first post (which could be just another problem altogether based on how much that person used) I've tested this with numerous individuals and non of the irregularities you note seem present, one girl (out of more than 10 people that wanted to try this) had to take a higher dose but that's following a crazy MDMA binge she sometimes does. Hardly any side-effects, not even vasoconstricion from what I could sense (yes, science!). Though with 25c we only dose in the 250-600ug range (more has given side-effects), and with 25i in the 500-750ug dose range.

Not that I'm saying anyone should take this substance, but rather that I feel that once the jury has a verdict then it will end up being no more dangerous than MDMA. Which if you were to dose it like it's LSD would be very dangerous too. That is, if it's in the right hands. With MDMA 1mg more or less won't do much, but with NBOMes it could result in death.

And Help, I wasn't disagreeing, but I was proposing a first step to getting in to that drug-utopia we all dream of. Once everyone accepts the data (and once there is more of it!) then we can talk about reforming the drug-laws :)
 
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I think I didn't make myself clear. The drugs only exist because the ones that are tried and tested (and we know how to use safely) are banned. I meant they should not exist. Not that they should be banned.

Also, there is the issue of safety of the drugs themselves. Lets take 25I-NBOMe as an example. Even assuming that it is as safe as 2c-i, and also assuming that there is a one to one correlation between the two substances potency per mg, that would give it an ld-50 of .685 mg/kg ( taking median common dose of 15mg and .7mg for 2c-i and 25I-NBOMe respectively and the LD50 for 2c-i as 14.7 mg/kg - (.7/15) *14.7=.685 - ) compare that to the ld-50 of LSD of 5mg/kg. You get my point. I admit that their are allot of assumptions in there, but since we don't know the actual ld50 for these new drugs it's the best I can do. The bottom line is if you rack up a line of acid you will be fine, do it with 25I-NBOMe and it's game over.

I think I am essentially saying the same thing as Solipsis but with less knowledge of psycho-pharmacology.

You are wrong about that bold bit though. These compounds were not designed or developed because other drugs are banned, but because they serve as probes for receptor modelling research studies. Selective ligands like this are a tool in that research. That the idea that you could 'abuse' them for use in humans escaped the lab does not necessarily have something to do with other psychedelics being banned.
Maybe a significant part of NBOMe blotters out there - ones that are being passed off as LSD - have something to do with it yes, but we cannot know how many people would be interested to try NBOMe's if LSD were legal. But I think that there are plenty of people who can get LSD and still take NBOMe compounds and that proves my point.
It just takes a few people to start trying this stuff on theirselves and spreading that information to get the ball rolling, despite how many people there are who are satisfied because they have LSD and would never try something like this.
But it is true that the ban status on psychedelics catalyzes this development and further propagates 'abuse' of these compounds.
 
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I should have expected this to pop up on BL at some point. I actually lived there in Fred. for 16 years, now out as of last year. I knew of both the kid that died, and the one in the coma. I also personally knew the kids that got them the NBOMe. Crazy, crazy shit.

San Antonio news is raising hell about this, and I can guaran-damn-tee you the community of Fred. is going to be, also. I could see a "synthetics ban" happening in Texas because of this.
 
yea they probably ended up sniffing about a 50mg line and oded. obviously didnt do any research.

With respect....they probably weren't capable of doing any meaningful research on these drugs.

1) The age of the people involved 15-17? Sure, you'll get some people at those ages who are capable of making attempts to learn before they use, but most will use blindly.

2) The NBOMe's, as classes of drugs, just do not have good pharmacological information available. You can't pick up a product monograph on 25i for example.

3) Debate it if you want, but young people generally do not have good forward thinking risk assessment capabilities.

I've bought 25C and 25B because they were (and still are) legal where I live. I still don't have enough information on them to be able to make a rational judgement as to whether or not they would be safe for me to take (and I spent 4 years in Pharmacology). If I can't make a calculated decision, I can't take em. That is not the sort of thought process that occurs in the mind of an average teenager.

The research that any prospective user is capable of doing as regards NBOMe's is minimal at best.

Thomas
 
You are wrong about that bold bit though. These compounds were not designed or developed because other drugs are banned, but because they serve as probes for receptor modelling research studies. Selective ligands like this are a tool in that research.

Damn I knew that as well, it slipped my mind. My point still stands though, just change "not exist" to "not being widely advertised or distributed". I am willing to bet that if the 2C phenethylamines had not been banned these derivatives would be nothing more than a curiosity only really used by research chemicals aficionados.
 
This is the second NBOMe death in texas Ive heard of, which isnt surprising considering the only domestic vendor of 25c and B I know of is based in houston. The other girl was from houston and died from 25B I believe. At least these guys knew what they were taking, If i remember right the girl thought she had taken lsd.
 
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