Telmisartan

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bolinas

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Feb 19, 2012
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I'm making trials with Telmisartan. It's a blood pressure drug, a angiotensin II antagonist (AT1 receptor blocker "ARB"). It appears to be a selective pan PPAR agonist, with activity at all PPAR receptors, but selective to certain parts of the body...an SpPPARM

It affects PPAR alpha in the liver, and lowers liver fat quickly. (Incidentally, excessive liver fat is mainly from drinking, a well problem, but also lately is happening from eating poorly, Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis, making telmisartan a aid for people who are obese and want to start exercising, this is a little bit of a shortcut.)

It affects PPAR delta in skeletal tissue. This is where the endurance effect of GW 501516 comes from.

It affects PPAR gamma in various tissues. This is probably not a desired effect in this group, but its delta effects appear to be stronger than gamma if i'm reading things correctly.

Telmisartan reaches maximum angiotensin II antagonism around the 80mg oral dose. According to studies and in my own test, larger doses appear to have no further effect for the drug's original purpose as an ARB. I notice no significant difference in the most obvious effect of the drug at 80, 160, or 240mg. The most obvious effect, aside from reducing blood pressure, is that it seems to make me slightly calmer, lowers the chatter in my mind, comparable to the effect of a long term, very low carb diet. This "calm" is definitely an effect GW 501516 does NOT have.

So this leaves the question, how does this drug rate against GW 501516 for increasing ATP-producing mitochondria (for endurance) and fat loss?

To get the PPAR delta effects, you definitely have to start at 80mg. 1-5mg/kg is the dose range that people have been testing. I've only gone up around 2.5mg/kg. It's nowhere near as strong as GW 501516 by weight. But by being more of a selective agonist, it's already an easily available prescription drug instead of a drug which is known to cause cancer aggressively through all tissues in rats.

At 240mg, I notice similar endurance boosts to larger doses of GW 501516 (20mg+).

Nothing else to report yet.
 
This is really interesting. I had never heard of Telmisartan or GW 501516, thanks for sharing your findings :)


Edit:
I just noticed this recent warning about the sides of GW 501516 and thought you may be interested if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ency-warns-athletes-of-black-market-drug.html

"tests on rats showed that at all doses, the drug rapidly causes cancers in a multitude of organs, including the liver, bladder, stomach, skin, thyroid, tongue, testes, ovaries and womb."
 
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I'm interested in this topic, do you have more finding bolinas?

The lowest dose in that study was 5mg/kg which is a lot. Most people take 20mg/day or less. We can't really extrapolate much from that.
 
If you do a Google scholar search of the GW50516 you will find a bunch of articles on it as it was in FDA trials, though the cancer risk halted a few of them, there may be a few still on going. Telmisartan seems to be used by a lot of Cyclists, and some distance runners fro its endurance, but I do not know much to the effect, there is a thread on the GW, a few of them to be honest you just have to hunt a bit.
 
I stopped taking Telmisartan in 2013. I recently started testing it again. In my current experience, it seems critical to combine it with a PPAR-gamma antagonist for positive metabolic, weight loss and endurance effects.

The safety profile of telmisartan is established by the FDA and similar EU agencies. So, to get an effect that is in the same ballpark as GW501516, but with a safer drug, is quite desirable. Don't get me wrong, in my experience, Telmisartan is nowhere near as powerful as GW501516. But that unbridled power is perhaps best left to the annals of science, and not self-experimentation. Successors to GW501516 such as GFT505, MBX8025 or SR9009 may prove to be useful, although reports of SR9009 suggest poor solubility making it less than practical for many. Yet, ordering from China is not necessary, we already have Telmisartan and Oleuropein readily available!

Once to twice a day 80mg telmisartan concurrent with 200mg oleuropein (1000mg 20% oleuropein standardized olive leaf extract) seems to be quite effective. The effect is present with 4000IU vit D, 200mg Oleuropein and 80mg Telmisartan in the morning, plus 200mg Oleuropein in the evening. It is even more obvious if you add another 80mg telmisartan in the evening.

The most interesting effects of GW501516 in my past experience were rapid weight loss and a huge jump in workout endurance (2x-3x). While Telmisartan just can't approach the metabolic powerhouse of GW501516, it is perhaps the next best thing, readily available and with a well known safety margin at 80mg/day...

I strongly suggest not drinking while taking telmisartan+oleuropein, and not using more than 160mg/day of telmisartan.
 
Can't say I've ever noticed an endurance-boosting/weight-loss effect from Telmisartan, but if this encourages AAS users to take it then I'm all for it, though moreso for its anti-fibrotic, BP-lowering effects.
 
bolinas said:
oleuropein
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So give us an idea of how effective the combination is in quantifiable terms?

I'm not dismissing it, but would have imagined even the metabolic benefits of ppar-gamma antagonised Telmisartan (or others of the ARB class) a bit exaggerated in normal healthy non-obese non-prediabetic people.
 
After taking it twice a day and then stopping, I notice an effect similar to but milder than Gw 501516. While i'm on it, I really don't notice the effect. Cycling for 5 days on, 2 days off has some interesting effects on both endurance and fat loss. It is nowhere near as strong as 501516. 501516 makes me crave food constantly, due to the serious boost in metabolism. I don't feel that way from Telmisartan, except during the "off" days. Taking it only once per day after taking it twice per day is almost similar to the "off days" so you could take it 2x 5 days, 1x 3 days, etc. I can't quantify it, and perhaps you can reach the same level through moderate exercise, although it does boost my endurance and lower soreness, similar to 501516.
 
I guess the only way to quantify it is that it must cause cells to boost mitochondria similar to 501516, but you have to go back off it to actually feel the effect, perhaps due to the PPAR-gamma agonism. Oleuropein isn't enough to counteract PPAR-gamma, I guess.
 
I'm trying astaxanthin instead of oleuropein. Astaxanthin is a PPAR-gamma antagonist (and PPAR-alpha agonist) with fairly strong PPAR-gamma binding. It's easier to get in OTC supplements than oleuropein, as well. Even walmart has it, a natural algae extract. See http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/25/1_MeetingAbstracts/438.3

Right now I'm matching each 80mg dose of telmisartan with 16-20mg astaxanthin. I won't know for a bit, but I can already say this combination seems to have a stronger metabolic effect than telmisartan or telmisartan+oleuropein.
 
^^^ even though I'm not posting here, I'm following along as I really liked the effects of gw and would like to replicate it with pharma grade drugs instead of research chems like gw. I remember somewhere reading about a cyclist who bought a massive amount of gw powder and planned to run it at 100+mg/day.
 
Bolinas, do you have any news regarding your "testing"?
I'm very interested to have good advices on how to use Telmartisan.
 
Hopefully Bolinas will reply eventually. However from my own experience of using: telmisartan, olmesartan, losartan, irbesartan, each for fairly prolonged periods, I've never noticed any effect on my endurance. However I would have been using other PEDs at the time so that doesn't make for the best anecdotal feedback unfortunately.
 
Bolinas: Are you still online or?
Does anyone else have experience with Telmisartan/Micardis for increased endurance (and fat burning)?

Thanks
 
Kirf said:
Bolinas: Are you still online or?
Does anyone else have experience with Telmisartan/Micardis for increased endurance (and fat burning)?

Thanks
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ive never known anyone to use this as a preferred item for either
 
Hello, do you still use telmisartan or gw. I'm very interested in finding something to help endurance. I tried the liquid form (endorsed by Dylan Gemille) all it did was make me feel sick and gave me headaches. Then used enhanced athlete capsule form.. no ill feeling but no change to endurance. Both were used at 20mg a day for a month. Can you recommend a source where I can find better gw501516 or telmisartan. Thanks for your help.
 
The potential performance enhancing value of telmisartan is marginal at best. GW is considerably more potent. We can't recommend sources though I'm afraid, and you need to be aware that GW is only approved for research purposes - what you buy may not be what it's advertised as, nor pure, nor at the dose on the label.
 
Ok I understand. Thanks. How about meldonium? Have you any info of the endurance benefits of it?
 
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