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    Map of prominent veins on arms? 
    #1
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    Hello.

    I'm writing this information leaflet for my local needle exchange which I hope at least someone will circulate around. I haven't been a regular visitor there for a long time but I was amazed at the lack of available HR information. Offering only "don't do it"-type information is, IMO, a problem. Many people around here inject pills without any kind of filtering, even though exchanges hand out LOTS of Sterifilt filters. Not to mention that most people learn their injecting techniques from friends and often have bad technique, use the same injection sites over again, or have absolutely no clue about sterility.

    I am looking for a map of veins on the arm, especially one that shows the veins most likely to be prominently visible/easiest to access on most people. I know everyone has a different vein configuration but a clear picture would be great to have. I have of course Googled extensively and found some potential candidates but I think it's possible to do better. The best would be a picture of an arm with prominent veins with explanations as to what is what.

    In any case, if anyone knows of such a picture, please let me know in this thread. Or if somebody possesses such an arm and wouldn't mind terribly taking a high res picture of it, it would be most appreciated.

    Thanks.
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    #3
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tentram View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I am familiar with that thread, in fact it has been a great resource while compiling my leaflet.
    I have been looking at pictures like this:









    .. and many of them are more than adequate. What I am looking for is a picture of a person's arm with prominent veins. Some people seem to have them sticking out all over the place. Unfortunately I do not, or I would take the picture myself.


    Something like this:



    .. but from an angle that would make it easy to visualize which is which.
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    i would use something like the 3rd picture you have which clearly show the pathways of the major veins. how it shows the cephalic through the radial and running into the median is easier to follow than the picture you wanna go with imo. it gives a view of the arm in a skewed position and just looks, to me, awkward. edit - i figured it out, it's just an extremely skinny person pictured.

    maybe go with something that displays the pathways along with a more realistic one as such so it gives an extra visual aide for beginners figuring it out.
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    #5
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tentram View Post
    i would use something like the 3rd picture you have which clearly show the pathways of the major veins. how it shows the cephalic through the radial and running into the median is easier to follow than the picture you wanna go with imo. it gives a view of the arm in a skewed position and just looks, to me, awkward. edit - i figured it out, it's just an extremely skinny person pictured.

    maybe go with something that displays the pathways along with a more realistic one as such so it gives an extra visual aide for beginners figuring it out.
    Yep, I didn't mean that exact picture of the skinny person's arm, but something similar at a proper angle. You are right though, I could use the 3rd picture alongside a picture of a real arm in the same position for extra clarity. I'll try to find a model for it.

    Still, if anyone who has such an arm happens to read this, I would very much appreciate sending me the kind of picture described here. I will strip all identifiable data from the picture of course.

    I also happen to have really bad veins for injecting, not from damage but most of them are completely invisible above the skin. I need to rely on pictures like these to know where to look, so I hope others in my position will get some benefit from making that leaflet. That is assuming the needle exchange people are even willing to distribute a safer injection guide. It could be seen as illegal due to the twisted laws in my country (as inciting drug use), but I sincerely hope common sense wins.

    Thanks for the help.
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    #6
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    your best bet at finding appropriate pictures is scouring google. they don't differ too much from the collection you have above, though.
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    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    I agree with Tentram, though I like these:

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    Bluelighter Mr.Scagnattie's Avatar
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    Are the veins on your own body not apparent or something? The vein maps and pictures (google has a ton) are just a guide. You still need to look at your own body and learn the best spots to IV with your veins.
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    #9
    Bluelight Crew BingeBoy's Avatar
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    ^
    I spent hours hunched over medical manuals. Yes ,the veins have to be found and your body might very well be different but it's still mighty handy to know where to start looking.
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    #10
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    ^in regard to the two posts above, just to the OP, in respect to your pamphlet you'd probably wanna keep it as concise as possible with information (websites, etc) on where to find more expansive knowledge and maps. keeping to a map that really just shows the main superficial routes would be the best from a users point of view unless you're printing out a full A4 size. that's just how i would see it anyway.
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    #11
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    Znegative: Thank you, that second illustration is perfect.

    Mr. Scagnattie: I agree. My veins are near invisible, maybe due to a lack of or exercise. It took a long time to learn to find them and pictures helped a lot.

    Tentram: That's a good idea. I do intend to make it short.

    I want to include a good vein map for two reasons. To help people find veins that are not necessarily visible, and to emphasize the point that using different injection sites greatly helps avoid damage to veins. Even though that's pretty obvious, people tend to go for the easiest sites. I did for a while too and now it's near impossible to get a blood test out of my right arm.

    Anyhow, you've been very helpful. I hope it's not a waste of time, there's no guarantee that the needle exchange people will even distribute the information.
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    #12
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    if you wanna bounce any ideas with what you're working on you're free to ask and there are people keen to help with these types of things. i think it's especially commendable of you doing something like this for your IDU community within your community and i really hope you can get it out there, enough HR can't be spread. the needle exchange i pick up from has some pretty decent pamphlets i've flipped through over the years.
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    #13
    Bluelighter down508's Avatar
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    google is your friend.
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    #14
    Thoughts on brachial(I believe) as an Iv site"? Basically the vein running directly down your upper arm , bisecting bicep and brachial is muscles?
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    #15
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    I would like to include ways to make veins more visible, apart from a tourniquet. I've read that heat (warm towel) can help. Adequate light also seems to help a bit. And of course gravity, and squeezing a virtual ball with your fingers.

    I remember reading about a device that highlighted veins using some kind of high frequency light, but I am on a mobile in a hospital waiting room so it is hard to check atm.

    Any neat tricks for that in the collective knowledge repository of BL?
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    #16
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    you've pretty much nailed the main ones and all the techniques i've ever needed to use. provided i have healthy veins which are no problem to hit.

    you're at the hospital? hope everything is ok
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    #17
    Bluelight Crew BingeBoy's Avatar
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    You forgot about saran wrap , works really well.


    maybe you should also mention the things NOT to do . ie stimulants , dehydration ,


    The vein finder things are called stuff like accuvein and venoscope (very expensive though)
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    #18
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    what's the saran wrap method, binge? same manner as a tourniquet?
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    #19
    Do you have a well-stocked local library? If so, go there and get some photocopies or scans from medical books on anatomy. They usually both have overview and close-up pics form many different angles, they have sketches and diagrams etc. Not that any might be better than the ones already to be found here and in other threads on BL, but there are a really many great anatomy books out there! And they may serve as inspiration. Pics of abscesses and blod clots, collapsed veins etc. may also be found in these books.
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ColdNorth View Post
    I would like to include ways to make veins more visible, apart from a tourniquet. I've read that heat (warm towel) can help. Adequate light also seems to help a bit. And of course gravity, and squeezing a virtual ball with your fingers.

    I remember reading about a device that highlighted veins using some kind of high frequency light, but I am on a mobile in a hospital waiting room so it is hard to check atm.

    Any neat tricks for that in the collective knowledge repository of BL?
    You mentioned the squishy balls, but not the GRIPPER!!!!



    And yeah, adequate light also helps. There are actually special lamps available in a wide variety of shapes, sizes and prices. Some can be mounted like a desk lamp with a clamp, some handheld, some small, some large, etc... I'm sure a cheap flashlight can be modified if one can find the right bulb that can produce the needed light spectrum/intensity - I am unable to find the wavelengths at the moment probably due to industry secrets arghhhh!!!

    Last edited by bwanajzj; 09-04-2013 at 09:51.
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    #21
    Bluelight Crew BingeBoy's Avatar
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    Saran Wrap Method is you wrap saran wrap around the part where's you're hoping to find some veins and the heat/insulation will make them pop out , once you found it proceed as usual.

    It's handy when you have to find a new vein and can't or don't want to take a hot shower etc.
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    #22
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    I went to the bookstore and found a great book on anatomy on sale. It has many great pictures and explanations of the vascular system, and lots of information I might find useful in the future.

    Thanks for the saran wrap idea, must try that myself as my veins are near invisible too.

    Those machines that make veins visible were exactly what I was on about earlier. If anyone happens to come across the kind of light required for that effect, please PM me or reply to this thread. I think that would be extremely valuable for people with few visible veins. OR...if you spot a cheap one, I might order it and find out for myself the proper spectrum/intensity of light required.

    Looks red in those pictures, red light seems to have a wavelength of 620-740 nm and a frequency of 480400 THz. I imagine what they use is something that can penetrate skin layers and veins, making veins visible due to the concentrations of blood they contain. I'll look into this too, even though the EM spectrum is not one of my strong points.

    Anyway, I finished my "guide", but for now nobody will distribute it. The drug laws changed in my country recently, and handing out this kind of information can be considered inciting a drug crime. Trying to sort it out, but might take a while.

    Outside of that, I am still interested in these techniques that can be used to make veins more visible. So if you have any nice tricks, keep them coming.

    Thanks for all the helpful replies, once again.
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    #23
    Bluelighter laCster's Avatar
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    good posts guys! thanks for having a map.... maybe someone should upload a vein map to the IV comp mega thread??

    i like hitting my medial antebrachial vein. radial vein is also nice and visible for me. i usually rotate between 6-7 different sites. i lke the vein right under my thumb, and my wrist veins pop out too
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    #24
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laCster View Post
    good posts guys! thanks for having a map.... maybe someone should upload a vein map to the IV comp mega thread??

    i like hitting my medial antebrachial vein. radial vein is also nice and visible for me. i usually rotate between 6-7 different sites. i lke the vein right under my thumb, and my wrist veins pop out too
    I will upload some very nice vein maps from the anatomy book I bought once I have access to a scanner. Tried taking pics of the pages with phone, but it's just not the same as a scanner. The book doesn't have like one map with all the veins, each arm/leg/hand/neck/etc. is portrayed separately and dissected into several parts. I found that very nice for this purpose. I will forward one of these vein maps here at the thread you mentioned.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ColdNorth View Post
    Those machines that make veins visible were exactly what I was on about earlier. If anyone happens to come across the kind of light required for that effect, please PM me or reply to this thread. I think that would be extremely valuable for people with few visible veins. OR...if you spot a cheap one, I might order it and find out for myself the proper spectrum/intensity of light required.

    Looks red in those pictures, red light seems to have a wavelength of 620-740 nm and a frequency of 480–400 THz. I imagine what they use is something that can penetrate skin layers and veins, making veins visible due to the concentrations of blood they contain. I'll look into this too, even though the EM spectrum is not one of my strong points.
    The lamps I have seen in person have a visible green light reflected off the skin and veins show nicely. So the spectrum is quite variable considering the pic I posted shows red light. It needs to be a spectrum that can penetrate the skin and show what is underneath, but not so deep to show bones or deep arteries etc. So on a broad scale, the spectrum is way above x-rays, and somewhere within visible light or that refracted/reflected by the skin. I assume soft x-rays or the likes could be used along with visible light of some specific colour? But still, to me that makes no sense, as x-rays usually need an absorbent material to display the result of refracted/reflected energy passing through and/or absorbed by the subject. In the case of the lamps, it is definitely reflected light of some sort that one sees. Perhaps simply a high intensity green bulb or red bulb will do, within the visible light spectrum. Anyone who knows what spectrum the vein lamps are produced with, chime in!

    ^Cool you got an anatomy book. Everyone should have a decent edition of one lying around. Can you give the title and author(s) of the one you bought?
    Last edited by bwanajzj; 19-04-2013 at 22:33.
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