Worrying, strange & unpleasant illness with brain zaps!

[Si Dread]

Hey peeps!

I've had a fucking rough week! On Tuesday I began to feel a little off, slightly light-headed, nauseas, dizzy. I took Weds off work, stayed in bed & took a couple Etiz to calm me coz I've got money problems at the moment & losing a days wage distressed me. On Weds night I took another 1mg Etiz to help sleep coz if I don't burn energy during the day, I sleep badly. I didn't feel 100% but made the effort to get to work on Thurs morning. By half 9am I knew I'd made a mistake. The feelings of dizziness & nausea became worse & I threw up a couple of instant coffee's & a slice of toast & headed for home. I spent the day in bed, same again yesterday, Friday. I was unable to read or watch TV & even music seemed to dissorient me. Turning over in bed or moving about generally or getting up for a piss felt almost impossible. I would feel very strange indeed, all shivery, dizzy & just really, really ILL!

About two weeks ago I had 3 or 4 goes on 5-mapb, & before that I had two evenings on Meph. I know that sessions like this on serotonergics, back-to-back are unwise & I suffered a few sessions of morning brain zaps. However, during the obvious phase of the illness described in the above paragragh, I suffered almost constant zapping, buzzing, zinging & found this really, really uncomfortable. I began by mid-Friday to fear that I had done something permanent to myself dabbling about with RC's & that this "illness" might in fact be some kind of extended come-down or after-affect of 5-mapb & Mephedrone. I've also been kinda emotional, getting upset over shit & losing my temper a bit.

This morning, though, thanks be to the Gods, I awoke with a few less zaps & ALOT less nausea & dizziness & even made it to the corner shop (slowly & carefully) for some much needed fresh bread & a copy of the Guardian. I know, such a wacky life I live! Anyway, it's mid afternoon Saturday now & although I am far from 100% I AM much, much better. The dizziness & nausea have departed almost entirely, I'm eating fine & I thoroughly enjoyed watching this morning's Downhill ski-ing live from Austria in HD (go Aksel, you suicidal Nord!). I love my TV & not being able to fill time with it when I was ill was really depressing Lol I know it sounds funny but you don't realise how much you rely on something to pass the time until you can no longer do so! The zaps & zings are easing too & even since just this morning, they've gotten alot better.

So, now that I can read as well as watch ski-ing on TV, I've had a wee look into Brain Zaps & found the following from the Wiki page on SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome.

"Common responses to dose reduction or cessation include dizziness, electric shock-like sensations, sweating, nausea, insomnia, tremor, confusion, nightmares, and vertigo."

I've read somewhere, probably in the Big & Dandy Brain Zaps thread in Psychedelic Drugs, that sometimes Zaps can accompany an illness completely unrelated to Serotonergic drugs. So I'm wondering, have I had some kinda wierd virus that's caused all these unpleasant symptoms, or have I suffered some kinda delayed reaction to a less than sensible but nontheless pretty minor drugs binge? Does anyone suspect that Etizolam might also be a suspect in the case of Brain Zaps?

Has anyone else ever suffered an illness such as I describe which also featured the Brain Zaps?

Just for a bit of background, I've suffered varying degree's of ill-health all my life. I've had a good few close up chats with the reaper coz of Asthma. I suffer migraines as well & sometimes they are accompanied by numbness in the fingers & other weird, nerve-ending sensations that aren't that dissimilar to brain zaps. But I honestly haven't ever had such an awful spell of illness & I'd really like some opinions from you guys here. I hope no-one else has had a virus like this, but if there's something going round it would put my mind at ease regarding the old RC's. If, on the other hand, the general consensus is that the drugs caused this, I'm seriously considering a permanent cessation of ALL serotonergic stimulants.

Thanks to all & any who take the time to read & reply. Best wishes to everyone

 

[rickolasnice]

I've felt like you describe one or 2 days after a heavy session of MDMA.. just without the brain-zaps (never had em)..

Never been delayed for so long though?

 

[ponch]

Sounds nasty, I hope you feel better soon. Could it be Labyrinthitis? It certainly covers quite a few of the symptoms you describe.

 

[adam west]

on a few occasiions ive had what sounds similar to you alkthough i wouldnt say as bad however the vertigo thing will juts come on out of nowhere i mean really strong. i was in town one day waiting to use a cash point and a s istopped still i felt really weird , like the ground was shaking or something, really felt horrible and i didnt stop until i hurried up got my money an started walking, it would go away as soon a s i sat down. i was wondering if maybe it was rushes of blood to the head or something and that suddenly stopping moving caused it but im not sure.

 

[angelsmoke]

Hey.

I have no medical....anything.

I can share some experience though -- I have a nasty cold this weekend and woke up with mild-moderate brain zaps. I've not used any serotonergic drugs in about a month. It doesn't sound as bad as what you're experiencing, but it also sounds like you're much sicker than me.

I haven't read the zeps megathread -- but I guess there they talk about different types of zaps. The zingy "urgh" kind and the "I just got punched in the head" kind. The worst zaps I've ever experienced -- the ones that felt like I'd literally got smacked in the head, were nothing to do with drugs (because I'd never done drugs at that time). I didn't have a community to ask or a phrase to google for, so I didn't know they were brain zaps til years later.

That said, I do get more zaps now when sick or run down that I did before my love affair with meph.

This seems like ADD topic material. They'd probably tell you all about your brain in great depth. If it were me, I'd carry on as usual, but think harder about quitting serotonergics if it happened again.

 

[Si Dread]

Thanks for the replies friends

It's been a rough few days but I really am on the mend. Just been out to the shop again (shoulda got an onion this morning huh? Lol) & succeeded in walking at my normal speed. Had one teeny zing in my fingers when I got to the bottom of the stairs. It's happened maybe twice since I posted up top, so defnitely, definitely easing.

The illness I've had (assuming this isn't the drugs) didn't have any classic cold/flu symptoms, y'know, sore throat, chesty cough, sneezing... none of that typical shit, & I do tend to get hit hard by colds/flu & do get 'em pretty regularly.

I'm familiar with zaps from over-use of MDMA & drone in the past but they were one-off's or at least very, very rare. But on Wed's/Thurs they were almost constant, literally just moving my head on the pillow would set them off. I've never experienced anything like that before & I did not fucking like it!

Reading in a little more detail the wiki page, my symptoms coincide quite heavilly with SSRI Cessation Syndrome, so I'm still quite concerned that my RC use has brought this on. I'm on a sabbatical now, for awhile anyway, I reckon. It might not be permanent. But it might be!

Here's the Wiki page :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

& here's the Big & Dandy Zaps thread from right here on BL :- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/461620-The-Big-amp-Dandy-Brain-Zaps-Brain-Shivers-Thread

 

[maxalfie]

I've had brain zaps in the past but they were not accompanied by any illness.
I believe that mine were caused by stopping to take the anti depressants that I prescribed.
I told my doctor that I kept getting a feeling like electric shocks shooting through my brain but he didn't seem to know anything about brain zaps.

 

[Si Dread]

Yeah, I am not surprised! Half the time my GP is grabbing some little book & looking up my symptoms in it, which is of course, really encouraging...

I was just discussing this with my lady friend, & I was saying that I would've thought this subject would be very interesting to the scientific community but further investigation would probably be discouraged by the fact that illcit drugs are involved.

But then I found this link in the Big & Dandy thread, about brain injury/trauma http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111207113550.htm I haven't finished reading it yet...

edit! Not entirely relevant, that link, but an interesting read. Pity that this subject is being investigated primarlly because of brain injury suffered through war!

 

[Derschieber]

Greetings.
I hope you are feeling better. I found your thread here in relation to 5-mapb, which I believe has made me ill as well. In combination with methylone, I used these two for 6 days. (aprox 200 mg bk in morning, 100mg mapb in arvo)
On the 6th day I could not find deep sleep, but instead woke up repeatedly with headache lasting all day and nausea. The last two nights I am aware of my dreams, which are so insanely disturbing, they wake me up feeling distressed...this happens repeatedly throughout the night. Like I'm half awake when dreaming...experiencing the whole show, and remembering that crap. Some of these dreams repeat over and over, and I'm aware and unable to stop them. When I get up I feel drained and totally not rested. By now I'm feeling sick, worried and hyper emotional...like...I'm crying a little now as I write this (for example).

You mention brain-zaps...I am unsure what this is, though I also read the wiki pages yesterday...every now and then my mind feels spinny in a strange way...hard to describe...but I think if it was stronger, it would be like a zap...this word seems right...

I'm sorry my writing this doesn't help you or answer your concerns, I guess I'm writing from my own fears about what's happened to me. My history has periods of hard-core stim-abuse including methylone over long periods, but before this episode, I had over 1 year break...I'm thinking this 5-mapb has some potential to get it's claws into me in ways other chems never have...certainly I'll not be using it again.

Best wishes.

 

[rickolasnice]

^ The dreams / sleep are quite common after a heavy session on serotonergics..

 

[ColtDan]

I've had brain zaps in the past but they were not accompanied by any illness.

This

ive had some weird similar effects you mentioned Si Ingwe, but milder, i assumed it was either the 5-MAPB or the etiz i had been taking

 

[jancrow]

You might well have made your reaction to stim aftermath worse by getting ill. When I've been unlucky enough to get proper flu or heavy colds I get occasional bizarre tingles which feel related to speed / e rushes if that makes any sense. Like their very mild sickly negative cousins. There are a lot of bugs going round at the mo.

 

[Derschieber]

Hi...thank you for your comment/reply. I'm lying down now, ready to try and sleep, but feeling all wrong.
Damn I was a fool, what have I done...this is the 3rd night and I feel as sick as ever.
I am worried I have damaged myself and this is how it will be for all times. Also crying over things not especially meaningful normally...
Everything feels wrong and disconnected...
I'm hating this, so disgusted in my actions...

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

There are a lot of bugs going round at the mo.

As simple as this.

 

[tragiclemming]

Too much time has passed for it to be directly related to your binge 2 weeks prior IMO. However, I'm not a physician.
I've had something similar after 7 days at a festival and way too much MDMA. The difference being, my symptoms started about 24-48 hours after I stopped partying. The symptoms do sound very similar, however.
I would go with the bug theory. Sounds most plausible, with the caveat that you don't do any seratogens for at least 4 weeks to put your mind at ease.

 

[growit&smokeit]

^Derschieber
Your symptoms just seem to be that of a really heavy comedown which considering how much you took isn't that surprising! In a couple of weeks I'm sure you will be fine.

Personally I don't really see the attraction of jumping on the newest of the new R.C. especially as there are safer alternatives that loads of people have taken before. It seems a pointless risk to be a guinea pig but if you want to be, you should fully accept and acknowledge that you could get fucked up by doing them, which in my opinion is rarely done.

 

[Derschieber]

Thank you for your encouraging words. Eventually feeling fine again is a very nice thought. The fact that it's been days and I'm not fine tells me the level of stupidity I was engaged in...the word special comes to mind.

Personally I do not see attraction of jumping on the newest...or any chem that's going to juice around with my serotonin...a distinction that until now, I was way to lazy or stupid to understand. What an idiot...yep. Never again.
Really, I'm grateful for your words here. Thank you.

 

[Si Dread]

Too much time has passed for it to be directly related to your binge 2 weeks prior IMO. However, I'm not a physician.
I've had something similar after 7 days at a festival and way too much MDMA. The difference being, my symptoms started about 24-48 hours after I stopped partying. The symptoms do sound very similar, however.
I would go with the bug theory. Sounds most plausible, with the caveat that you don't do any seratogens for at least 4 weeks to put your mind at ease.

I would have said the same thing a few months ago, before my bout of illness described the top of this thread. If I remember correctly, I ceased use at least 5 or 6 days before I began to feel ill. Then I felt rough for a couple days before getting trapped in bed by the brain zaps, nausea & vertigo. It was at least 10 days from when I began to feel ill to when I felt normal again.

I read alot of about the withdrawel from SSRI's while research Brain Zaps & the Zap symptoms for people who have withdrawn from SSRI's sometimes linger for months if not years. So, after years of serotonergic drugs (albiet it on a daily basis) it can take the brain many more years to rebalance the chemistry.

To Derschieber, I hope your symptoms are easing now. Sounds like you screwed up your chemistry with over-use of both methylone AND 5-mapb! I recomend easing up on all stims including coffee, try to eat fresh fruit & veg, keep well hydrated & take supplements of Fish Oils & ALL the B vitamins. This will aid your recovery but, once again bear in mind it took me about a fortnight before I felt better.

Best of luck & thanks for your kind words regarding my adventure. I've been fine for about 5 or 6 weeks now. I'm not taking any sims for the forseeably future & I cut back on my Etizolam just in case it was also involved.

Hi...thank you for your comment/reply. I'm lying down now, ready to try and sleep, but feeling all wrong.
Damn I was a fool, what have I done...this is the 3rd night and I feel as sick as ever.
I am worried I have damaged myself and this is how it will be for all times. Also crying over things not especially meaningful normally...
Everything feels wrong and disconnected...
I'm hating this, so disgusted in my actions...

Honestly, this is EXACTLY how I felt mate! My poor gf went through hell, I was pissing & moaning for two all days, miserable as fuck I was, tears over nothing! She's a trooper Lol

You'll be fine, just tough it out. It fucking sucks but it goes away! It won't last, I promise you!

AND don't do it again! I fucking won't! Lol

 

[GingerPee]

Glad you're feeling better, that moment when you feel you've done yourself irreparable damage (although you probably haven't!) is very disconcerting.

I've bombed an APB combo three times and two of those had a really bad physical comedown which amalgamated with a cold / produced cold like symptoms... the first time this was combined with brain zaps. Much worse than with MDMA, which I have sometimes battered over a few days (although MDMA has left me dizzier).

I felt shocking and of course promised nevermore! I have been trying to work out since why once the experience was fine and the other times left me which such an awful residue.

I think partly I am not getting enough sleep these days (baby), also notably the time I did not have the negative response I had hydrated well before going out, eaten sensibly and taken magnesium.... I drank and smoked both times but I don't think that has had any particular effect...

 

[Si Dread]

I am absolutely fine, thanks Ginge!

It seem as if the apb's generally, & 5-mapb in particular, are commonly causing this sort of delayed, unpleasant Brain Zappy comedown. I can't advise strongly enough to use this compound with great caution, not to take large doses & not to take it often, especially not daily, back-to-back.

I appreciate that RC's are a risk, I accept the risks & I accept the consequences. I've no-one to blame but myself when things go wrong & no-one other than myslef to pat on the back when they go right. I've used stimlant RC's over recent years because I am facinated by the efforts of clandestine chemists to create molecules that mimic the effects of banned drugs & I like to find out how close they've come, for myself, when one of these compounds appears on the market. I accept that I am as likely to become unwell as I am to have a fucking great experience, & in the case of 5-mapb, it's possible to enjoy both a great time AND a nasty comedown!

I also consider it imperative to report both positive & neative effects on places like BL so that, hopefully, others will learn from my mistakes & not use something, or use it with greater eptitude than I.