• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Help needed - long-term gabaergic drug use.

This is a fantastic reply Chromophobia! Thank you for all of the information. Although I do not suffer from tinnitis, your insight into GABAergic activity has got me thinking about a few things. I will PM you with a separate inquiry as it has nothing really to do with this thread, and more to do with development of a healthy regiment for moderation of my GABA agonists/antagonists as they relate to anxiety.

WikkidOne, please post whatever you learn on this thread. It might be vital information, critical to expanding our understanding.
Many thanks
 
One thing I think is worth mentioning is that withdrawal from chronic gabapentin and/or pregabalin can cause some nasty effects if discontinued too quickly. If you intend to cycle it may be worth keeping that in mind, as you would likely need to taper your dose for a week or two before switching to another drug. Antidepressants are in a similar boat, granted at the doses used for neuropathic pain it might not be as much of an issue.
 
taking benzodiazepine for treating tinnitus is retarded because they are ototoxic by themself, maybe they will mask the tinnitus for the time you take them but they will damage even more your hear!
i succesfuly treated my tinnitus with high dose piracetam ( 7-10 gr ) daily and high dose vinpocetine ( don't have the exact dosage but it something like half an 0 capsule )
my tinnitus is now barely present and it manifest himself only when i restart smoking or take ototoxic substances

I highly recommend you to buy the book "Ototoxic drug exposed 3rd edition " there is A TON of information about ototoxic drug and some good advice
now every time i want to take a drug i check in this book if it's not ototoxic

i can say to you both by experience and by the book that alprazolam is toxic to the hear, it cause tinnitus in 6,6% of those whos take it along with other ototoxic effect like Ataxia Dizziness and vertigo

thoses doctors are just retarded they want you to take a drug to make you shut up

also
Gabapentin is extremely toxic to the hear and you will experience hearing loss hyperacusis and tinnitus for sure ! pregabalin has the same toxicity as gabapentin

please do youself a favor and invest in this book you will save your hear for the better ( AM 101 is coming and spi 5557 is in preclinical trial )
 
Last edited:
just to add something
if you have anxiety disorder maybe you can try Afobazole, its not ototoxic and work good for anxiety after a few weeks i know it because i take now and i don't use garbage benzo anymore

hope i helped you
 
^we prefer evidence based medicine, not saying you might not be on to something. There are a few very weak trials on piracetam with small benefits, but we're talking very small benefits. Also reference for the gabapentin ototoxicity claim?
 
Marcus, I've noticed when I take my daily dose of Cannabidiol, I don't get tinnitus. I get it occasionally, so I don't know what it would do for a severe form of the condition. It does prevent excitotoxicity, and it is a nonaddictive, sustainable therapy with minor side effects like reduced appetite and initial somnolence.
 
^we prefer evidence based medicine, not saying you might not be on to something. There are a few very weak trials on piracetam with small benefits, but we're talking very small benefits. Also reference for the gabapentin ototoxicity claim?

in my country (we have one of the best healthcare system in the world) Piracetam is the standard treatment a doctor give you for tinnitus and it work very good for alot of people according to my doctor but not for all , maybe it depend on the cause of your tinnitus.

Personally Piracetam work WONDER for my tinnitus and trust me i had a very loud one, generally it dont work with dose like 2-4 grams at-least not in the beginning, you have to overdose it at 8-10 gr (although i have read a study that say 8-10 gr is the standard dose for piracetam to work )

i don't know exactly the science behind it, but piracetam affect NMDA receptors in the brain and in the hear too (maybe by normalizing their activity? ) and this is why it work, as an example the new anti tinnuts medication that is being developped AM 101 is a non competitive NMDA receptor antagonist and i heard that their Phase IIB trial were a success

as for Vinpocetine google it, there is alot of people using it for tinnitus and its work good for me maybe even better than piracetam alone

those are OTC cheap supplements with practically no side effects so why not give them a chance (1 or 2 months) before screwing your brain with heavy medications that has even less evidence of working and will not work for sure ? :?

as for gabapentine

here are the side effect of this medication according to the Physicians Desk Reference, the Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties, the American Health Foundation etc

Gabapentin

Ototoxic effects:

Cochlear:

hearing loss : 0,1 - 1% ( AHF, PDR )
HyperAcusis : 0.1 - (AHF, PDR )
Tinnitus : 0.1 - 1% ( AHF, PDR )

Vestibular:

Ataxia : 3,3 - 12,5% (cps, pdr)
Dizziness: 2,8 - 28 % (CPS, PDR )
Labyrinthitis : 0,1% (AHF, PDR)
Nystagamus: 8,3 - 20,4 % (CPS, PDR)
Vertigo > 1 % (CPS, PDR)

Outer / Middle Ear:
Earche/ear pain : 0,1 - 1 % (AHF, PDR )
Feeling of fullness in the ears (that mean generaly hearing loss) : 0,1 - 1% (AHF, PDR )
Otitis Externa : < 0,1 ( AHF, PDR)
Otitis Media : 1,2 % (placebo 0 % ) (AHF, PDR)
Perforated Eardrum : <0,1 % ( AHF, PDR)

Risk assessment : CLASS 4

some of these side effects may seem to you unlikely to happen because they don't exceed 1% but don't forget that you ears are already injured so there is a very strong chance you WILL experience them !

for example i have used Seroquel in the past , according to the PDR, seroquel give hearing loss in less than 0,1 % of it users, so when i read this i didn't worry
because less than 0,1 % is low but the day after i took it i woke up with a fucking hearing loss that subsided only a week after and that only after taking 1 pill of 200 mg, in the past seroquel had no side effect on my ears but after i injured them i'm now sensible to every ototoxic medications out there !
this is why you have to be extremely carefull of what you take, and because there is no mention of ototoxic effects on the insert of your medication doesn't mean it's devoid of ototoxicity because when the medication is on clinical trial they don't take people with injured ears! ( tinnitus, hyperacusis, hearing loss etc ...)

This is why you rarely see ototoxic side effects on insert of medications

Hope i helped

ps: Does anyone have a problem with pubmed ? it don't give me any search result
 
Last edited:
Marcus, I've noticed when I take my daily dose of Cannabidiol, I don't get tinnitus. I get it occasionally, so I don't know what it would do for a severe form of the condition. It does prevent excitotoxicity, and it is a nonaddictive, sustainable therapy with minor side effects like reduced appetite and initial somnolence.

I was looking for this answer for age !! Thank you :D
Cannabidiol have TON of benefits i want to use it for Anxiety, nausea pain and as sleeping aid but was reluctant to grow some high CBD weeds because i was afraid it was ototoxic like THC (doesn't cause hearing loss but may cause tinnitus) but according to your post it seem non toxic which make sense since it is a strong anti oxidant and is neuroprotective
 
Marcus, I've noticed when I take my daily dose of Cannabidiol, I don't get tinnitus. I get it occasionally, so I don't know what it would do for a severe form of the condition. It does prevent excitotoxicity, and it is a nonaddictive, sustainable therapy with minor side effects like reduced appetite and initial somnolence.

Thanks, Can you tell us about dosage. I know that in UK cannabidiol is not a controlled drug, do you think I could order some, have you any knowledge
of friends in UK who have alleviated symptoms?
 
Last edited:
Thanks Hadora

Thank you for info on piracetam and vinpocetine.
Could you tell us about your experience with AFOBAZOLE or anything you know about people who have used it.
Have you used these three in combination or cycled from one to the other.

Thanks epsilon for the interesting debate.
 
Yes, you're very welcome! I'm so used to getting shot down, I hardly post any more ^.^ I know that CBD is unscheduled in the UK, and I know that u can expect to pay customs 10 quid for the pleasure of picking it up! At least that's what happened to a package I just sent (legal).

Good luck fellows! Marcus I'll be in touch next time I'm on british soil, if you want to meet up : D
 
Thanks for posting the reference :) and yeah pubmed didn't turn up any results. Mind if I as which country you're from? I know several nations have very poor rates for uploading papers to pubmed
 
Thanks TriputoryHeadicine. Please stay in touch I will send you a message. The feedback I've had from CBD Project is that they can't export, prob because they're
talking about CBD-rich strains containing THC
I'd almost given up looking.
I understand Cannabidiol is non-psychoactive, doesn't get you high or anxious and is safe generally.
Any improvement would be welcome so I want to try it.
Do you know much about it's mechanism in brain?
I think there are CB receptors in auditory cortex or somewhere, what do you know about how it could
ease Tinnitus or reduce anxiety, and do you get toilerant to it. If so I could cycle it with something else.
Stay in touch and yes when I'm well enough to walk it would be nice.
 
Cannabidiol is psychoactive to some extent, but it does not produce typical cannabinoid effects like THC does. It's a different kind of psychoactivity.

CBD acts as a CB2 agonist, and a CB1 antagonist. In addition it has agonistic effects on serotonin 1a receptors. CB2 agonism is implicated in the antispastic and immune modulatory effects, CB1 antagonism and 5ht1a agonism cause anxiolysis and relaxation.

Part of the reason CBD is still illegal is because it can be converted into THC through heat, improper storage, and from the presence of acid. This is also why cannabis plants almost always have more THC than CBD. Discussion of the legality and sourcing of CBD is not a topic that's really appropriate here though.
 
SEKIO Thanks for the detailed info on Cannabidiol.
Don't want to be inappropriate. Is it not different in UK?

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15106.htm
The regulation of cannabis in the United Kingdom under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 is complicated. Schedule 2 to the Act classifies cannabis itself, and cannabis resin, as Class B controlled drugs, and the cannabinoid cannabinol and its derivatives (defined as THC and 3-alkyl homologues thereof) as Class A controlled drugs.

"Two non-psychoactive cannabinoids, cannabidiol and cannabichromene, are not controlled drugs, and could in theory be prescribed as unlicensed medicines, but no-one is currently doing so."

WIKIPEDIA
Cannabidiol (CBD) is unscheduled in the US. However tetrahydrocannabinols, both naturally and synthetically occurring, are currently classified under Schedule I of the US Controlled Substances Act.[44] Cannabidiol is a Schedule 2 Drug in Canada

I won't bother posting the dozens of links but as you prob already know cannabidiol looks to be a surprisingly effective
treatment for many pathologies.
Me, I'm just desperate for help.
 
Last edited:
Cannabidiol is psychoactive to some extent, but it does not produce typical cannabinoid effects like THC does. It's a different kind of psychoactivity.

CBD acts as a CB2 agonist, and a CB1 antagonist. In addition it has agonistic effects on serotonin 1a receptors. CB2 agonism is implicated in the antispastic and immune modulatory effects, CB1 antagonism and 5ht1a agonism cause anxiolysis and relaxation.

Part of the reason CBD is still illegal is because it can be converted into THC through heat, improper storage, and from the presence of acid. This is also why cannabis plants almost always have more THC than CBD. Discussion of the legality and sourcing of CBD is not a topic that's really appropriate here though.

SHIIIT. SEKIO, would glycerin be acidic enough to cause this transformation? I sure hope not : O

MARCUS, delete your inbox mate : )
 
Cannabidiol is psychoactive to some extent, but it does not produce typical cannabinoid effects like THC does. It's a different kind of psychoactivity.

CBD acts as a CB2 agonist, and a CB1 antagonist. In addition it has agonistic effects on serotonin 1a receptors. CB2 agonism is implicated in the antispastic and immune modulatory effects, CB1 antagonism and 5ht1a agonism cause anxiolysis and relaxation.

Part of the reason CBD is still illegal is because it can be converted into THC through heat, improper storage, and from the presence of acid. This is also why cannabis plants almost always have more THC than CBD. Discussion of the legality and sourcing of CBD is not a topic that's really appropriate here though.

Rimonabant with a selective CB2 agonist i imagine should be quite potent anxiolytic, and antipsychotic, the CB2 agonism should offset the depressive side effects of rimonabant.
 
Rimonabant with a selective CB2 agonist i imagine should be quite potent anxiolytic

There's plenty of evidence that rimonabant treatment is just about the fursthest from anxiolytic you can get - it was trialed for weight loss, but there were problems with people geting suicidally depressed and killing themselves, so it was withdrawn. I don't think it'd help at all...

Just because CB1 agonism is sometimes anxiogenic, does not mean blocking it is a smart idea.
 
Depression yes but not anxiety.

CB2 agonism is euphoric as seen with the selective ligands that are available i beleive this will offset the depression, it pretty much replicates cannabidiol.
 
snippets from the web

CBD was once thought not to affect the subjective affect of marijuana, but further studies have shown that it actually does have an affect. CBD appears to relieve convulsions, some types of inflammation, anxiety, and nausea. CBD has also been show to help stop the growth of cancer. CBD is also effective as an anti-psychotic for people suffering from schizophrenia. Marijuana buds that have a higher amount of CBD are associated with a more sedative or calming effect. Cannabis buds that contain high amounts of CBD are a perfect treatment for insomnia or for treatment late at night. When used by itself, THC can cause disorientation and anxiety. CBD seems to prevent these effects.

CBD has been found to provide relief from chronic pain due to muscle spasticity, muscle
convulsions and inflammation. This type of pain is often experienced by patients who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia and Epilepsy. In addition to pain relief CBD has been shown to assist with general feelings of anxiety as well as cannabis-induced anxiety.

When appreciable amounts of CBD (>4% CBD by weight for flowers) are ingested along with THC, the CBD may reduce the psychoactivity many patients would normally experience from the THC present.
 
Top