Bluelight

Thread: tapering off a mild benzo adiction, then jumping off CT with valerian root

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. Collapse Details
    tapering off a mild benzo adiction, then jumping off CT with valerian root 
    #1
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    491
    Star
    i was using 2mg clonazepam and like 10 etizolam every other couple days for the past few months. ive toned it waaaay down, since im getting tolerant (first stage of dependency), so i have been lowering my doses gradually over the past few weeks/month. im down to 1.25mg klonopin every other day, with 2.5 etizolam when the kpin wears off so i can sleep.

    i guess im just wondering if this stuff works well and will help me not feel like a sack of potatoes and do nothing for weeks on end. without my benzos, i am not very productive.i just want to take a solid 3 weeks off benzos and then get back to my once a week routine. things got a little too real for a second and got kinda blurry. now im trying to nip this shit in the bud. thanks guys, and gals -aphex
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    491
    64 views, 0 replies? maybe if i fabricated a story somewhere in there about getting a syringe stuck up my rear, i wouldve gotten a response, Lmao
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    I don't think the best thing would be for you to successfully abstain from benzodiazepines then decompensate by getting back into a weekly habit. The trouble is when you become addicted to a substance, abstain, and use again you think you can regulate your use. However, the odds and statistics are utterly and completely against you. I applaud your confidence but if you chose to abstain, abstain.

    As far as valerian root goes it has mild effects in GABA which could be useful to you once you stop. I would try and get some gotu kola, a potent herbal anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, and antidepressant. It saved my life one too many times from withdrawals.

    Your taper is sound, and your use isn't very heavy, but if you still feel uncomfortable during withdrawal, talk to your doctor about hydroxyzine (anti-histamine), or in an extreme case gabapentin (anti-convulsant).

    Also, please be patient for a response and try not to be hostile. Participants in this forum volunteer to answer your question and are by no means forced to.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    491
    that makes sense. ill have to check out that gtu kola out. thanks for being kind and answering that in full detail. i wasnt being hostile im just a too much of a smartass for my own good sometimes.

    if i took 2 capsules at noon, 4 hours ago and the effects are waning. should i take two more or would i have to take 3 to get the same effects as earlier. the bottle said take 3 to fall asleep so i started out with 2. thinking 3 is prolly the better way to go in general. im also trying not to take more than the 3 the bottle recommends in a day. maybe go over by one or two if i need it.

    also, do you know how many days in a row this can be taken as directed, without gaining a new dependance. my benzo dependance is subtle so im just trying to step down with these for a week or two. maybe some melatonin and cannabis for sleep. thanks again, -aphex
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    You didn't mention the dosage of the capsules you were taking, so I can't tell you how many to take. According to the Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research, the maximum safe dosage of valerian is 1,800 mg per day as there are some reports of hepatoxicity for users who use abnormally large doses for extended periods of time.

    Valerian is LIKELY SAFE for most people when used in medicinal amounts short-term. Clinical studies have reported safe use of valerian for medicinal purposes in over 12,000 people in trials lasting up to 28 days. The safety of long-term use is unknown. Some information suggests that valerian might also be safe when taken by children for 4-8 weeks.

    Valerian can cause some side effects such as headache, excitability, uneasiness, and even insomnia in some people. A few people feel sluggish in the morning after taking valerian, especially at higher doses. It’s best not to drive or operate dangerous machinery after taking valerian. The long-term safety of valerian is unknown. To avoid possible side effects when discontinuing valerian after long-term use, it's best to reduce the dose slowly over a week or two before stopping completely.
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...tural/870.html

    Melatonin helps a lot of people sleep, personally I used to take it in a ready tablet combined with valerian and it used to knock me out. The cannabis can certainly help with the depression but may or may not help with the anxiety. IME sativa strains usually aggrevate my anxiety even when I'm not in withdrawal and indica strains relax me.

    As I said before your habit is mild so try not to worry to much. Take pleasure in the fact that your doing the right thing.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    491
    ^thanks again chrom , good advice and nice info. i have the 400mg 4:1 extract with 100mg valerian root, so im guessing the 300mg is an extract?instead of taking more i just grabbed a beer and a bowl of indica, some stone temple pilots to listen to and things are well.

    if i need to, ever, will i get the same effects if i take 3 when i wake up and 3 around dinner? i need help with anxiety alot in the day or i just sit around and worry about stuff and get all stressed out. for my 1st day using 2 capsules, it was defintely noticable. obviously not the same as 1mg of etizolam, but i felt more from 2 capsules of valerian than a 4 year benzo break and trying 1mg intas by itself. good lookin out man, and your right, that is something to feel good about, not worry about. thanks again, -aphex
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    4:1 extract of 400 milligram valerian would indicate that you have 100 milligrams of valerian root which is the main active ingredient in valerian. Since I can't identify if the Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research was in reference to the herb or the root, the variation and lack of standardization for valerian/valerian extract, I would try and not exceed the directions mentioned on the label or the 1,800 mentioned by the Center for Herbal Medicine Research. I hope this helps.

    thanks again chrom , good advice
    Anytime , good luck.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    Agree with just about everything Chromophobia's said in this thread; sound advice.

    I have found relief using valerian extract for mild benzo withdrawal symptoms after fairly short-term use. Can't remember the dosages I used, but I experienced mild anxiolytic effects as well as a reduction in muscular spasms and agitation, and mild sedative effects which allowed me to sleep better. I've tried it to combat abrupt withdrawal from higher doses; while it wasn't very effective for this purpose, it seemed to have a notable effect on the frequency and intensity of 'brain zaps', which anyone that has had them will testify is most definitely worth it in itself.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Bluelighter rhun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Yay Area
    Posts
    605
    Valerian, Kava Kava, and Melotonin are excellent for sleep. OTC sleeping pills and syrup has never worked for me but they have.

    OP, Valerian is herbal and you cannot become addicted to it. Sorry, I lol'd when read your question regarding that.
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    ^Not true.


    Withdrawal after long-term use in a male has also been associated with benzodiazepine-like withdrawal symptoms, resulting in cardiac complications and delirium.[33]
    Reply With Quote
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    3,978
    ^we call that dependence and should be expected with any medication you use every day. Addiction to valerian root? i highly doubt anyone could get recreational effects from valerian. Make sure it is fresh too and not just prepackaged store stuff.

    i used valeric acid during benzo withdrawal and it didn't alleviate anything, it was strong too, smelled awful, terrible, cant even think about taking it again. IMO its useless for benzo withdrawal, especially if you are jumping off at anything over .5mg/day, I wouldnt jump off until you are completely stable at .125mg/day or .25mg/day, if you can handle that for a few weeks you are ready to jump completely.
    Reply With Quote
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    Bluelighter rhun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Yay Area
    Posts
    605
    Chromophobia, I find that very odd... I used valerian nightly for 6 months and didn't notice any difference when I stopped using.
    Same with several friends and family. What exactly in valerian is habit forming?
    Reply With Quote
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Bluelighter bunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Englands east coast
    Posts
    1,444
    @rhun. not to be confrontational but certain herbs could be addictive to some people for example: cannabis, opium pods or straw. Valerian extacts contain an active chemical that acts in some way on the GABA complex of the brain. A large number of chemicals that act in this area are dependence or habit forming eg. Benzos, barbs or alcohol (to name but a few) and even drugs which are nit considered addictive eg. Gabapentin, pregabalin will still cause a withdrawal syndrome in longterm use. As with any drug 'natural' or synthesized, long term use or habitual use should be avoided unless otherwise indicated by a medical professional.
    OP ive not got any better advice then some of the advice you received above. I would personally look towards pregabalin as a short-term help with WD symptoms, however the bitch with a benzo WD is that theres not much you can substitute with that isnt cross tolerant and just as addictive as benzos themselves. Good luck. :-)
    Last edited by bunge; 10-01-2013 at 21:35. Reason: Encouragement :-D
    Reply With Quote
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    Quote Originally Posted by rhun View Post
    Chromophobia, I find that very odd... I used valerian nightly for 6 months and didn't notice any difference when I stopped using.
    Same with several friends and family. What exactly in valerian is habit forming?
    Robot is right on some counts. However, one must not forget that dependence leads to addiction. It's highly unlikely that you may become dependent or addicted to valerian, but if caffeine can cause dependence, is that so hard to believe that an anticonvulsant, anxiolytic, and GABAergic can as well? There are vey few case reports of valerian causing withdrawal symptoms and quite a few anecdotes, only in use for extended periods of time and in high dosages.

    Kratom is a herb, it causes dependence and addiction
    Reply With Quote
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Bluelighter bunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Englands east coast
    Posts
    1,444
    ^
    The problem with valerian as with alot of herbal suppliments is that theres very little if any solid medical studies done in them. Hence why its pharmacology knowledge is limited to 'thought to act upon the GABA receptors in an unknown manner'. but after all why would the big pharmas pay for these studies if their already making a fortune off benzos and z-drugs? :-D
    Reply With Quote
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    Bluelighter rhun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Yay Area
    Posts
    605
    I don't think valerian can be compared to opium pods, kratom, or even cannabis. All of them produce a noticeable high, and opium and kratom cause physical dependence.

    I couldn't find very much information either, though I did track down a post on BL:
    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/2...-Valerian-Root

    I have taken Valerian at high dosages for extended periods of time and noticed no effects when I discontinued use.
    And I've never come across anyone who has become dependent on it or experienced ill effects when they stopped taking it.
    Reply With Quote
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    3,978
    yeah the thing with valerian is that it pretty much has no effect, even if you are taking valeric acid that is standardized. In this case i can safely assume that valerian root used daily will not cause a dependence or addiction. Plenty of anecdotal evidence for this statement as valerian root has been used for thousands of years probably. Compare that with opium, there's a huge difference in potential for addiction or dependence.

    It's not a real GABAergic, however it may work, we don't know but it certainly does not produce any of the typical effects of our most used and loved GABAergics, like diazepam, gbl, alcohol or whatever else. I think the smell alone will stop anyone from developing a problem with it in itself.

    Caffeine actually has an effect, a strong one at that for something that you find everywhere. It is very apparent after drinking a few cups of coffee that it has effects. With valerian you can eat a whole bottle and not notice anything really, except when you burp and that nasty smell comes out lol.

    You could get addicted to anything though, even just reading BL, so i don't know but if you are that susceptible to addiction then maybe you shouldn't use valerian root.
    Reply With Quote
     

  18. Collapse Details
     
    #18
    Get a script for gabapentin. It really helps.
    Reply With Quote
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Senior Moderator
    Basic Drug Discussion
    Anon/Homeless Forums
    baooozs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,989
    It's not a real GABAergic, however it may work

    Data from this study suggest that the pharmacological effects of valerian extract and valerenic acid are mediated through modulation of GABA(A) receptor function.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14742369

    The results showed significant anticonvulsant effect for aqueous but not PE extract of valerian. Moreover, CPT as a selective adenosine A(1) receptor antagonist decreased the anticonvulsant effect of valerian aqueous extract. Therefore, we concluded that part of anticonvulsant effect of valerian probably is mediated through activation of adenosine system.
    Copyright 2009 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19900527

    It's really unfounded to say valerian has little or no effect compared to caffeine when it's an anticonvulsant especially when pharmacologists are still trying to figure out how to stop seizures effectively.
    Reply With Quote
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    Lemon Balm is good too... It's a potent GABA transaminase inhibitor, mainly due to Rosmarinic acid.
    Reply With Quote
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    Valerian has helped reduce my own and many of my friends WD from benzos. It sounds like you have been tapering pretty well, and if you werent taking benzos for more than 3 or 4 months the withdrawals wont be too bad anyways.
    Valerian makes me tired and I generally don't like it during the day
    , but it definitely could be called an herbal valium. It has been shown in studies to reduce anxiety against a placebo.
    I'd take a dose of around 1200-1500mg valerian root at most at night. Make sure you find a brand that has reliable reviews and that the valerian is legitimate and potent. It should smell very bad when you open the bottle. that is a good sign.
    I wouldn't recommend taking valerian everyday for more than 2 weeks at a time, but with the amount of benzos it sounds like you were taking and only for a few months, you should only need them for a week at most in a row. after that you should try to slow down taking them. Don't try to use them as a substitute, just as an aid in ending your benzo dependence.
    Reply With Quote
     

  22. Collapse Details
     
    #22
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    3,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Chromophobia View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14742369



    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19900527

    It's really unfounded to say valerian has little or no effect compared to caffeine when it's an anticonvulsant especially when pharmacologists are still trying to figure out how to stop seizures effectively.
    i meant as in having an effect one can actually notice. I don't take valerian root and feel "well that's a damn good anticonvulsant", as compared to when i drink a great cup of coffee.

    if valerian root has effects at gaba(a) then they are as weak as codeine compared to oxymorphone.
    Reply With Quote
     

  23. Collapse Details
     
    #23
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Cloud 9
    Posts
    779
    I have zero benzo tolerance, and literally no tolerance to anything GABAergic and valerian does NOTHING for me. I highly doubt it would be of any beneficial use to someone in benzo WD.


    And with the codeine to oxymorphone comparison thing....I think if someone was withdrawing from oxymorphone and they took a bunch of codeine they would get some noticeable relief, I don't think that would be the case for valerian root and benzo WD.
    Reply With Quote
     

  24. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    3,978
    lol you're probably right but i couldn't think of a weaker opiate/oid.
    Reply With Quote
     

  25. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Cloud 9
    Posts
    779
    lol tramadol? Idk if they would help with WDs but yeah man id try and get a gabapentin script
    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •