Opioids Detoxing Using Suboxone then Kratom

[HChow]

My apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum

I am coming to an end of a 150mg daily Oxy habit within the next few days. I've been using for almost 4 months, using Subs a few times when I ran out of Oxys. I WANT OFF this rollercoaster, always chasing pills and worrying about getting sick! I was initially taking Suboxone for a brief period of time, tapered down to .5mg and jumped....right back into the arms of Oxy addiction. I thought I could use Oxys to combat some of the WDs I was experiencing from coming off the Suboxone. Well now I want off. I only want to use Suboxone for a short amount of time and then switch to Kratom. Does this sound like a well though out plan or does anyone have other ideas? Also, can anyone recommend the type of Kratom to use. I know enough to stay away from the tinctures as teu can be as potent and addicting as full angonists but, I'm not sure which Kratom I should use. I did read the KRATOM MEGATHREAD and I am still confused and unsure as to which Kratom to use. I don't like anything speedy or anything that makes me amped up as I am already wired that way. I need something sedating since I get really bad anxiety when withdrawing, which was one of the major reasons why I started using again. Any feedback regarding my questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,
Henry

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I went from morphine/poppy pod to suboxone to kratom. I rode that coaster for almost a decade. In my case, kratom really just prolonged the whole thing as in no time I became just as dependent on it.

Suboxone withdrawal was hell, and probably kratom is good for tapering but controlling my addiction was beyond me at that point...so if you have a loss of control you are probably going to trade one addiction for another.

I used "bali" kratom. All kratom is somewhat speedy, its just what it does...but bali had the best speedy/narcotic ratio; it was the most pleasant of all the kratom I tried. No kratom I have tried is really sedating.

My apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum

I am coming to an end of a 150mg daily Oxy habit within the next few days. I've been using for almost 4 months, using Subs a few times when I ran out of Oxys. I WANT OFF this rollercoaster, always chasing pills and worrying about getting sick! I was initially taking Suboxone for a brief period of time, tapered down to .5mg and jumped....right back into the arms of Oxy addiction. I thought I could use Oxys to combat some of the WDs I was experiencing from coming off the Suboxone. Well now I want off. I only want to use Suboxone for a short amount of time and then switch to Kratom. Does this sound like a well though out plan or does anyone have other ideas? Also, can anyone recommend the type of Kratom to use. I know enough to stay away from the tinctures as teu can be as potent and addicting as full angonists but, I'm not sure which Kratom I should use. I did read the KRATOM MEGATHREAD and I am still confused and unsure as to which Kratom to use. I don't like anything speedy or anything that makes me amped up as I am already wired that way. I need something sedating since I get really bad anxiety when withdrawing, which was one of the major reasons why I started using again. Any feedback regarding my questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,
Henry

 

[rhun]

I went from morphine/poppy pod to suboxone to kratom. I rode that coaster for almost a decade. In my case, kratom really just prolonged the whole thing as in no time I became just as dependent on it.

Suboxone withdrawal was hell, and probably kratom is good for tapering but controlling my addiction was beyond me at that point...so if you have a loss of control you are probably going to trade one addiction for another.

I used "bali" kratom. All kratom is somewhat speedy, its just what it does...but bali had the best speedy/narcotic ratio; it was the most pleasant of all the kratom I tried. No kratom I have tried is really sedating.

This. Switching from opiate to opiate will just prolong the inevitable and there is a good chance you will just trade one addiction for another. That's not to say that switching from a long lasting opiate to a shorter lasting one is a bad idea.. But if you're going to do that then I would just not even use the buprenorphine at all. Just taper your oxycodone till you get to a small amount then switch to Kratom for the last leg until you feel stabile enough to get off completely.

Your taper plan and kit is key. You need to design a taper plan that will minimize discomfort but you don't want to taper so slowly that it's needlessly prolonged. There are also some great posts on here about tapering kits for quitting opiates. Benzos are something similar really make the difference, as well as loperamide, a good multivitamin, muscle relaxers, and there are other supplements like L-Tyrosine (for energy) and melatonin (for sleep) that will help you feel a lot better during the process.

 

[thelastclubkid]

suboxone has a very long half life... on the average of 37 hours... this means that the WD's from suboxone are worse than even methadone (and let me tell you methadone WD's go on a long time...) tapering is all about having the control to take smaller doses of the opiate despite the fact that you stop feeling analgesia and start to feel some WD symptoms.. but in the end it makes the overall WD more manageable...

IMO all these different plans ppl come up with as far as taking bits of different opiates and things are really just a way of attempting to cheat your way out of going through WD... and the truth is that you *are* going to go through some sort of WD's... you can make it *alot* easier by implementing a taper and saving some specific meds for the worst parts.. e.g. taking a benzo to help with the worst of the precipitataed WD's.. but honestly the truth is that when you want to quit opiates you are going to have to pay the piper...

 

[rhun]

^ I disagree that buprenorphine WDs are worse than methadone WDs. They may last longer, though I would like to see some info backing that up. But methadone is a full agonist and an extremely potent opioid. If you don't down very, very low from methadone it can be extremely dangerous. Also, your methadone dose can go up and up depending on your tolerance.. I've met people on 400mg (). Bupe has a ceiling effect though, I believe there are no effects noticeable past 32mg and the most effective dose is low, around 6mg.

 

[lenses]

Kratom is ideal for tapering down and getting your daily dosage lower.

A simple schedule would be 3 tablespoons of kratom the first week, breakfast lunch and dinner dosing. I used the maeng da strain of kratom , seemed to be the strongest out of any I used and wasn't too stimulating. Avoid the red vein strains they can be too stimulating . The next week cut down to 2 tablespoons and lower your dosing from there. Towards the end of the taper I was taking 3 teaspoons a day.

One tip is instead of taking a big dose beginning of the day, is to divide the doses so you take it every 3-4 hours. I could get by on a few teaspoons on about day 10. I was kicking suboxone , I was on 1mg a day when i switched over and it wasn't too bad.

When you decide to stop kratom all together , xuan xui (weinicom is another name for it) is really helpful. It's a traditional chinese medicine herbal mixture that is used for opiate withdrawl and it really works! It seems to take care of W/Ds about 80% on its own and it is so good it could probally stand on its own. There wasn't any dosing info with it , but I was using between 500mgs and 1g per dose put in capsules. Don't toss and wash though, it is reallllly funky tasting. I wish more people knew about it, it is pretty amazing.

-lenses

 

[Sukahnus]

Plants for getting off opiates/methadone

I'm attempting to distance myself from methadone after using it to get away from HEAVY opiate use. I've had good... actually great, luck using kratom and a few other things.

Kava Kava seemes to work too, but I have not used it alone for more than a day or two, but with kratom one day kava kava the next or whatever, I have done pretty good.

Nutmeg extract also worked, surprisingly enough. With no bad effects. I noticed a definite antidepressive effect though, which is a big plus. I felt pretty good with from one to five grams at a time encapsulated. Nothing remotely psychedelic. But up. I smoke alot of cannabis but it felt like I was extra stoned all day and pretty happy too.

I just got Xuan Xia and will post on the results of that after a day or two, unless I see marked results sooner. (something worth talking about) I went cold turkey off opiates a few years back, but the bone ache leg shake nagging fucking AAAAHHH! thing was too much. Hence, the methadone.

Ibogaine hcl and TA is where I am going, but in waiting for things to line up perfectly to actually begin, I am doing these other plant medicine routes, and they do work. IN FACT it is NOT OK, and LIFE THREATENING to begin Ibogaine directly from methadone, like it is with other things. One must use other things, short acting opiates, kratom, etc... for a time first. Then stop at least 24 hours prior to Ibogaine. With most other addictions, but not all, you can just stop 24 hours earlier.

Lactuca virosa or opium lettuce seems to help a chick I know but it costs WAY too much to make the amount needed possible for very long at all. (alot of 50x extract in capsules) I saw very little effect, myself anyway.

Also tried this Peony Poppy/Betony/Pedicularis or something like that, (sorry don't have it with me rigt now) liquid extract and it knocked us both out for about three times more hours than I normally sleep, so maybe it would be of use, but I like to be able to do stuff.

I will also say that Datura/Tropane plants are wonderful for getting rid of nausea, (smoking is the safest way). Just don't be stupid. The motion sickness pills are made from these plants. One time a friend ate a whole box and was BBQing invisible burgers on an invisible grill and passing them out and eating them. He smoked invisible pipes with invisible lighters too. We all went to a party and left him alone all night. The next day he thanked me for hanging out with him all night and said that we sat and talked about all kinds of deep stuff all night and how close we were now. Far out!

Amanita Muscaria is wonderful too, BUT...
One bit of advice I've seen nowhere, but have confirmed, unfortunately, is... NEVER use Amanitas with Kratom! It rips my guts up like there is a flaming cat digging it's way out. Candied ginger wrapped in fresh mint leaves is the only thing I have found that helps it.
Other than that, Amanita Muscaria is also wonderful, and NOT psychedelic. But at high doses some things can seem quite different. You do not need a large dose to get relief from WD. Don't eat them fresh/raw. It is also a good idea to use milk thistle to protect your liver.
Don't bother with the Amanita Extracts, they DO NOTHING. Other than a very slight energizing effect at the beginning. Unless you smoke it in an oil water pipe. Then it is VERY reminiscent of "H", minutely, for a little bit. A little. Kinda. But nice.