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    Anyone here use Kratom daily? Any problems from this? 
    #1
    So, I know this has been discussed before but I wanted to try and get some new fresh opinions on this....
    I have been to another forum that is very knowledgeable about kratom but they have rules that make me nervous that Im going to post my question the wrong way so thought Id try here first. I have had a long past with opiate addiction and anxiety and have recently been using kratom daily now to aid these two things for the past month or so. I know if I stop Im most def going to get withdrawals and have been delaying the inevitable, but what has happened was that I have noticed that it is a really big help for anxiety, depression and opiate cravings.

    I was planning on tapering off bit by bit, but wanted to get some thoughts on whether it would be safe to stay on a daily low dose. I have been taking about 3 teaspoons daily and would think if I want to stay on it safely that I should most likely taper my dose down even lower.

    So my question is, any thoughts on daily kratom use and does that seem to be safe or has anyone done this on here for any length of time without any ill side effects? If so, then what are the thoughts on how much would be best to keep it at. Of course, if anyone thinks daily kratom is not safe Id like to hear that as well. Thanks!
    Last edited by truvision; 05-01-2013 at 22:23.
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    #2
    Bluelighter lucsdc's Avatar
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    My friend have done Kratom for the last 2 years. He never felt anything, and in one of ours conversation, the only side effect that he complained was that he was sleeping more than he should. Anyway, I think is a pretty safe drug if you use it responsibly
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    #3
    Kratom is an opioid agonist and should be treated as such.

    Try posting in this thread:

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/6...Mega)Thread-v2
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    #4
    Okay thanks guys, every bit of info on this is good for me to know. Ill try to post in the other thread also.
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    #5
    Bluelighter bronson's Avatar
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    Daily kratom use will result in a rising tolerance, so there is no one set dose you can set and stay at. Like just about every drug out there, diminishing returns eventually set in. If a person proceeds past that point they land in dangerous territory.

    Kratom dosed and taken responsibly is fine, but it's still a horse of the same color if you are in a position where you seek a daily benefit from it. Sometimes it's best to take count of what's making you feel the need to take something daily and act proactively. (I know this advice is much easier to give, than to put into use.)
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    #6
    Yea I think Im def going to come off of it as just recently Ive been noticing some blood pressure issues and the odd thing is it seems to be happening from the very first dose. Has anyone heard of that before? I only drink one cup of coffee in the morning but I think Im gonna have to cut that out for a while cause something is really sending my BP up first thing in the morning right after my coffee) but then it just seems to keep building and building throughout the day.

    I dont know its just starting to make me feel odd and even having withdrawals in the middle of the night. I hope I will be able to taper off of it as the way Im suddenly feeling Im just not so sure.After thinking about it, I dont think its good to be taking anything everyday if you dont have to, just common sense I suppose.

    Btw,Ive heard a teaspoon is about 5 grams of Kratom,does that sound about right? I think Im going to need to order a grams scale for the purposes of tapering.
    Last edited by truvision; 06-01-2013 at 15:05.
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    #7
    Do you feel you have blood pressure issues or do you know you have blood pressure issues? In either case cease your use of kratom if you feel you have a problem. Kratom is very similar to tramadol in that they both stimulate norepinephrine. Since I know that tramadol can raise blood pressure, I can only assume that kratom may do the same thing.

    If the problem persists after ceasing your kratom use, see a doctor. Untreated hypertension can result in death.
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    #8
    Chromo- oh yea thats def what this feels like a little combo of nore which is sending my BP up.This is really weird though cause its only all of a sudden in the past two days although Ive cut my dose in half, my BP seems to still be going high. I thought it might be from the coffee but hours later I just took one half teasoon, as I still need to take some to taper off, and it is still shooting up. I dont have a monitor here but Im pretty good at telling when my BP is high since Ive went through all sorts of withdrawal many times before, but thats the only time Ive ever had any BP problems. Im know my high BP now though is not from any withdrawal but like you said it is from the effects of Kratom raising my BP all on its own as my BP goes up right after I take it.

    Ive also got some clonidine that has been prescribed to me for anxiety (but not for blood pressure problems) that I can take while tapering down if I have to, but I know all thats doing is fixing the symptom and not the problem so I am a bit concerned.I swear this kind of crap happens to me all the time. I just dont respond to anything well, I might for a short period of time but it always ends up the same for me.Sorry Im whining here, but man this is terrible timing because schools about to start and I really dont think I can handle elementary statistics and all the other BS feeling like hell.

    Without being able to taper my withdrawals are actually pretty bad.I guess Im gonna try to go even lower on my dose tomorrow like perhaps 1/4 teaspoon at a time with no caffeine and see how that goes as I really want to be able to taper off of it instead of CT. Im going to play it by ear, but does this sound rational? Geez, I cant believe just yesterday I was ready to stay on it, looks like I got my answer!
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    #9
    Bluelighter bronson's Avatar
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    Yeah, by all means, if you are more comfortable that way a taper is always advisable. In many cases it's actually healthier than CT as the body can adjust and all. Keep us updated on how you are doing, and I hope school goes well for you.
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    #10
    Bluelighter
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    after steady dozing 10gr a day till the very last powder then doing a ultra rapid taper, a laughable taper at best.
    Been feeling shitty all round about 5 days and than the mail man arrives 3 days earlier then expected.
    No one at my house was there luckily my neighbour was to accept said package for me.
    Wanted to hug the man as I stood in front of his door after ringing the bell, could hear good classic music playing inside.
    But he wasn't there and the box was in eyesight, we were parted by one layer of glass.
    He did come back soon after and I got high as quick as humanly possible carefull not to overshoot in my enthiousiasm.

    So addicting, yeah probably not Heroin style but fiendish and habituating with a withdrawal ,be it a mild one.
    But enough for me to know never to bother with heavier stuff.
    I have a hard time getting of Kratom withouth anyone noticing my sudden physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms.

    Never did once a day thing that could work theoratically when willpowered, could reduce the chance for increased doses.
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    #11
    How do you know your BP is going up, do you have a blood pressure monitor? Or do you mean your pulse is rising?

    Either way, you mentioned that you already have anxiety and that's probably the real cause. The noradrenergic activity of the kratom and/or the coffee could be exacerbating this.

    Are you becoming aware of your heartbeat and it seems fast? If so, that's called palpitations and it's a pretty classic sign of anxiety.
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    #12
    Thanks everyone, yea this really sucks. Looks like I am going to have to come off of this stuff lets just say the harder way!I have only had one and a half teaspoons today and well although I dont have a bp machine the clonidine does bring me MUCH closer to baseline but a couple hours after it starts wearing off it starts creeping back up. The feeling is not so much pulserate but a just a super irritable, exhausted, stressed out, cracked out feeling that grows more and more intense no matter if I take more or not and starts from the very first dose!

    Yea, I dont handle stimulants well at all and this is exactly what that feels like, an overload of stimulant, although like I said it wasnt even happening to me till two days ago and I have been taking it for a couple months now, about 3 teaspoons a day. CHIT, does anyone know maybe a good watered down tincture of kratom that might help make the next few days more bearable? I would think that maybe a quarter teaspoon diluted in some water maybe taken every couple hours wouldnt do me that bad and would make what Im about to go through a little better but who knows. This sucks! Btw, it got so bad I had to go puke for the second time today from BP issues and it all calmed down after that.

    Problem is, now I know I am facing withdrawals without really being able to taper.. did I say this SUCKS?? Thanks for the support and oh yea emkee- yea stay away from the harder stuff for sure , cause I think thats why I have such a hard time withdrawing from krat, is cause Ive been around the merry go round with opiates many times and lets just say that Im ready to get off the ride!
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    #13
    I have to take a lot of pseudoephedrine or ephedrine for sinus problems and get (what I expect to be) similar side effects to what you're describing - especially if I add caffeine in - and I find a combination of l-theanine, chelated magnesium and a B100 complex greatly mitigates this.

    L-theanine alone helps so much.
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    #14
    Cool, Ill go get some theanine tomorrow then!
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    #15
    I didn't know you we're in withdrawal from opioids. Opioid withdrawal can result in tachychardia and hypertension, hence why doctors prescribe clonidine during withdrawal to reduce cardiac output. Generally it's not life threatening and will disappear. Coupling your withdrawal with the norepinephrine from kratom, I'm willing to bet that's adding to your problem. Stay on the clonidine during withdrawal, and taper off it slowly once withdrawal is over to avoid rebound hypertension.

    If you have headaches, facial flushing, dizziness or confusion, then your most likely in hypertensive crises which is an inch away from a heart attack. Look out for these symptoms if they surface and seek medical attention or go to a pharmacy near you and check your blood pressure for free.

    Edit: after thinking it through I remembered reading somewhere that taking clonidine with substances that release norepinephrine may cause hypertensive crises because they battle for occupancy of the same receptor. Please check your blood pressure the next time you combine the two to be on the safe side.

    Here's the study:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10772378
    Last edited by pasha; 09-01-2013 at 03:16.
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    #16
    Hey Chromo- well I was in opiate withdrawal but that was a couple months ago so Im pretty sure that part has past. This just started in the last two days with the kratom that Ive stayed on for the past two months... but you know what maybe your onto something with the clonidine because its as if somtimes I feel better from it and sometimes it seems I feel worse and dont really know whats going on.I ordered some stem and vein kratom powder which is supposed to be more mellower and weaker to come off of. Hopefully that will help. The trick is now making it till then but wow, thanks for showing me that study.
    ***UPDATE*** hhe
    Holy crap I just had to get on here and edit this cause I just realized when my doc gave me this I was also prescribed elavil which is an NDRI and he said just make sure not to take them at the same time cause it can cause rises in blood pressure, man cant believe I didnt think about that and well Kratom would fall into a similar box.If I take them I will make sure they are not taken at all together.Thanks youve been a big help!
    Last edited by truvision; 07-01-2013 at 01:58.
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    #17
    The more you dose the harder it will be to come off.

    Kratom has some weird effects besides opioid agonism, and i think it depersonalizes you. I would just stop taking it immediately and not replace it with some other opiate, which sounds like what you did when you "withdrew" a couple months ago. You have to pay the piper. Taper down if you can.. but resisting the urge to dose more than you need to not be sick is not something most opiate users can handle well, unless you have very strong resolve
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by truvision View Post
    Hey Chromo- well I was in opiate withdrawal but that was a couple months ago so Im pretty sure that part has past. This just started in the last two days with the kratom that Ive stayed on for the past two months... but you know what maybe your onto something with the clonidine because its as if somtimes I feel better from it and sometimes it seems I feel worse and dont really know whats going on.I ordered some stem and vein kratom powder which is supposed to be more mellower and weaker to come off of. Hopefully that will help. The trick is now making it till then but wow, thanks for showing me that study.
    ***UPDATE*** hhe
    Holy crap I just had to get on here and edit this cause I just realized when my doc gave me this I was also prescribed elavil which is an NDRI and he said just make sure not to take them at the same time cause it can cause rises in blood pressure, man cant believe I didnt think about that and well Kratom would fall into a similar box.If I take them I will make sure they are not taken at all together.Thanks youve been a big help!
    Absolutely no problem, glad I was of service.

    Amytriptyline(elavil) is very similar to the drug mirtazapine(remeron) mentioned in that study.

    Even still, try to get your blood pressure checked as soon as you combine clonidine and kratom, or just for laughs. Do it everyday for a week and record the readings. Your pharmacist or doctor will be able to tell you if there's something alarming.
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    #19
    DP oh yea, you are so right theres something very weird about these effects that Im starting to not like at all and its like all of a sudden too as just two days ago although I was still feeling odd somtimes, it nothing like it is now.Its just like sometimes I feel like Im on the verge of flipping the!@#@ out, it doesnt feel good anymore its like I just feel nasty.I just made up a super watered down tincture that seems to be alright and is actually helping.I only had about one and 3/4 teaspoons of K today and didnt even wanna take that. I SO agree.. we gotta pay the piper at some point and thats all Ive been trying to do but I know its coming. Good thing is, I think Im losing my love affair with kratom and if I can get stabilized, dont think Ill have any problems at all now tapering. I wish I could just get off the crap right now. Its not quite like lortab or any of the other real opiates, like you said its just getting a bit too trippy for my taste. Kinda more like a cranked up, tripped out opiate overkill with an underlying amount of sick body euphoria and CNS OVER-stimulation.. if that makes any sense, course Im sure you know exactly what I mean!
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    #20
    Do you ever get eye shakes? I hate kratom tbh, but used it because i felt it was "better" than using opiates, and cheaper. However, i think it has just as many, if not more, negative effects, and really screws with your personality over time.
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    #21
    Hey Chrom, yea Im going to go to WM tomorrow just to make sure. That will at least calm my mind down so Im not constantly freaking out about it also and Ill report back. It might be good for others to know this also since many people are on alot of meds that might interact in ways they dont anticipate.
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    #22
    we gotta pay the piper at some point
    Spot on^

    I'm glad your taking the right steps to ensure your in good shape. Maybe a low dose benzodiazepine would be suitable to negate the stimulation, and help you cope with the mild-moderate withdrawal symptoms of kratom. I'm anxious to hear back on your blood pressure.
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    #23
    Hey DP,I havnt gotten that yet but I swear you know the study in Thailand where they say the peoples skin started darkening well, Im almost for sure Ive seen that a couple of times on my cheeks but it went away. You know whats weird.. I think I can come off tabs WAY EASIER than I can come off kratom and Im not just saying that. Ive done it time and time again and also my usual withdrawal aids like neurontin and clonidine also work with tabs but not near as well with the kratom.I keep hearing about how easy it is to come off of KRATOM but thats just not been so for me, but why my Dumb-A keeps going back to it I have no idea( prolly the accesability hhe). I pay hell quitting Kratom CT. I will HAVE to taper as I have never made it CT on Kratom and Ive done CT on tabs and even Heroin for petes sake( although that was a bit forced on me) but the kratom is just so weird. I tried to lie to myself and say it wasnt so but hey, thats the mind of addiction. Your right, and Im beginning to admit that Ive felt some bad effects to my overall well being and health in just in the short time Ive been on it. Good thing is when I get to that point of sickness and loathing I do it and Im there. I dont think Ill be going back to K when Im done, this time Im done for good.I think I feel the same about K as you do.

    All you guys have also kinda helped me see the light!
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    #24
    If your having difficulty quitting opioids, may favorite withdrawal aid is 600 milligrams of pregabalin with alprazolam, diazepam, or clonazepam. It works much better than clonidine or gabapentin. I know you mentioned you couldn't tolerate pregabalin, but if I were you I would try and force myself since pregabalin is very potent and has a much more calming effect on the sympathetic nervous system.
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    #25
    Yea, I know that going to another opiod to get off another opiod is actually a really stupid solution.Ive even done the loperamide and got stuck on that, pretty much just been chasing my tail for nothing going in the opiate circles now. Man I mean its only like its 5 DAYS, and Ive been through it before so why do I fear it so bad??Ill be the first to admit that I am a VERY difficult case.The crazy issue with the pregablin is my doc wont give me that because shes sure that I had a mental breakdown from it. She wont give me benzos either because of my past history with addiction. I can get some benzos but probably only xanax(possibly valium not sure though) but after just one use of a xanax, I have rebound anxiety for five days afterwards. I do have about 50 neurontins laying around, lots of clonidine and vistiril if I need it.Even with the neurontin I can barely take enough of that for what I will need because I had to get off of that due to it inflaming my skin and hair follicles .. but I will still take it if I have to.

    Ive also looked into other things that have been found to help withdrawals such as doxepin and zofran but my regular doc would only write me for 10 of them until I saw a gastro doc. They are also the low milligram and not enough for five days. Your right though, even though she suspects that the breakdown was from Lyrica (which was many years ago however), I would be more than willing to risk that again for just the 5 days of the worst withdrawal.Ive even thought of trying to order some pregablin online cause crap all I need is a few of them.I KNOW how good that stuff works and ur right, it would make it CAKE for me to come off Kratom. Might sound crazy, but considering that it would only be for five days I think it might be worth the risk.

    Im going back to the doc on the 16th, if I can hang on till then and keep tapering.Ive been thinking of some other things that might help( Im sorry if you cant tell Im a woos when it come to withdrawal). I just dont know what to ask her for that I havnt already tried and dont wanna mix too much crap in the mix if you know what I mean.If I could just find something that I could tolerate well enough to take enough for my purposes Id be fine. Whatever I take I also make sure to run through the interactions checker just to be safe.Anyways, yea like I said my system is HELL to deal with and once I get clear of this I have learned my lesson good this time!!! Im gonna try to go to Walmart to day and take my BP and Ill report back....
    Last edited by truvision; 07-01-2013 at 17:06.
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