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Thread: Phenobarbital - First time with Barbiturates?

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    Phenobarbital - First time with Barbiturates? 
    #1
    Bluelighter Supeudol's Avatar
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    Okay, so I have been around for quite awhile on these forums. Lots of people have read my previous posts about my addiction to opiates/benzos/& Pregabalin. Anyways, I am on Suboxone currently still, and on a Diazepam taper. But I happened to come across some apparently 30mg Phenobarbital tablets. They are small white, biconvex tablets from South Africa. Anyways, I know Phenobarb or at least have heard that it is probably the shittiest Barbiturate out there, but I have never taken a Barbituate before, and so far just about 20 mins ago I took 2 of these 30mg tabs. I also have some Flunitrazepam 1mg tablets (3). Would these go good together? Would More Lyrica (Pregabalin) help boost the flunitrazepam? I also take Metoprolol 50mg usually just once a day, and have been on Metoprolol for quite some time now.. maybe a year or two?

    Anyway, back to Barbiturates.. how do they differ from Benzodiazepines, and how do they compare? I know Barbiturates target the GABA-A Receptor as well I believe. But can somebody shed some more light on Barbs for me?

    I'm also on Effexor XR (I know a lot of drugs here..) but have been weaned off quite a few. And I'm only on 75mg/day of Effexor XR. Is the dose of phenobarb I took (60mg) considered a small dosage? According to Wiki, I think it is. I know a lot about pharmacology and all other drugs, but I never did and still do not know much about Barbiturates.

    Thanks fellow BLers.
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    #2
    Bluelighter Supeudol's Avatar
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    Update - Not very impressed at all. Shitty Sandoz Flunitrazepam 1mg... I don't find this benzo to be euphoric at all, of course all I've had is 3mg though with 60mg of phenobarbital and i've taken about 300mg lyrica in total, but I took the pregabalin a lot earlier..
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    #3
    Bluelighter Swimmingdancer's Avatar
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    Sorry no one has replied, I think there may not be a lot of people on here who know much about barbs, since they aren't widely used these days.

    Yeah, 60mg phenobarbital is considered a normal dose for sedation (or a starting dose of 30-60mg for seizures). Not sure what the safe dosing range is, but be especially careful if you're combining it with other drugs. Flunitrazepam + phenobarbital + pregabalin can be a dangerous combination as they are all CNS depressants and GABA-ergics, and may therefore have a synergistic (more than additive) effect.

    Barbs are more dangerous than benzos.

    From Wikipedia, explaining the difference between barbiturates and benzos:

    The principal mechanism of action of barbiturates is believed to be their affinity for the GABAA receptor (Acts on GABA : BDZ receptor Cl- channel complex). GABA is the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter in the mammalian central nervous system (CNS). Barbiturates bind to the GABAA receptor at the beta subunit, which are binding sites distinct from GABA itself and also distinct from the benzodiazepine binding site. Like benzodiazepines, barbiturates potentiate the effect of GABA at this receptor. In addition to this GABA-ergic effect, barbiturates also block the AMPA receptor, a subtype of glutamate receptor. Glutamate is the principal excitatory neurotransmitter in the mammalian CNS. Taken together, the findings that barbiturates potentiate inhibitory GABAA receptors and inhibit excitatory AMPA receptors can explain the CNS-depressant effects of these agents. At higher concentration, they inhibit the Ca2+-dependent release of neurotransmitters.[13] Barbiturates produce their pharmacological effects by increasing the duration of chloride ion channel opening at the GABAA receptor (pharmacodynamics: This increases the efficacy of GABA), whereas benzodiazepines increase the frequency of the chloride ion channel opening at the GABAA receptor (pharmacodynamics: This increases the potency of GABA). The direct gating or opening of the chloride ion channel is the reason for the increased toxicity of barbiturates compared to benzodiazepines in overdose.[14][15]

    Further, barbiturates are relatively non-selective compounds that bind to an entire superfamily of ligand-gated ion channels, of which the GABAA receptor channel is only one of several representatives. This superfamily of ion channels includes the neuronal nAChR channel, the 5HT3R channel, the GlyR channel and others. However, while GABAA receptor currents are increased by barbiturates (and other general anaesthetics), ligand-gated ion channels that are predominantly permeable for cationic ions are blocked by these compounds. For example, neuronal nAChR channels are blocked by clinically relevant anaesthetic concentrations of both thiopental and pentobarbital.[16] Such findings implicate (non-GABA-ergic) ligand-gated ion channels, e.g. the neuronal nAChR channel, in mediating some of the (side) effects of barbiturates.[17]
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    #4
    Bluelighter Supeudol's Avatar
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    ^ Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I found Phenobarbital to be really weak IMO. I don't know if I will ever try any more barbiturates unless I get my hands on Secobarbital, or Amobarbital.
    I find Diazepam to be better than Phenobarbital, thats for sure. I find Pregabalin to be far superior to Phenobarbital as well. I miss Pregabalin's magic it had when I first started taking it though.
    Been on and off it for 7 years now. Pregabalin in doses of 450mg+ are really nice, and synergies nicely with opiates or other benzo's.
    Fuck the Barbiturates!
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    #5
    Bluelighter Smokey_McPot's Avatar
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    i work at a dog place and recently came across a good amount of pheno and was wondering about its recreational value. youve just confirmed my suspicions... thank you!
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    #6
    Great for anxiety. Useless for anything else. You can sleep on it, but you'd need about 300mg to do that.
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    #7
    Bluelighter muie's Avatar
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    This is an on going debate but 90%+ bluelight members say having phenobarbital (less than 100mg) 2-4hrs in your system previous to taking codeine that it works to potentate codeine, in that more than the normal 10% of it gets to be metabolized into morphine and also raises the ceiling dose.

    The medical theory behind this debate is that phenobarbital and/or other barbies work as major or exclusive substrate/s for CYP2D6, CYP2C9, CYP2C19, CYP1A2, NAT2, or DPD

    This is a debate b/c not everybody is of that opinion, some say this reaction simply makes for a lot more norcodeine to be converted (which is nothing special even less so than codeine). Others have gone as far as to make the same comparison with Tramadol since it follows the same pharmacology as codeine (pro drugs). I must say, also from experience I don't find that the same works with tramadol, rather everytime I take barbies with tramadol I notice a decrease in effects.

    I've tried this (theory) with phenobarbital and/or amobarbital as well, good combos but not sure if it really potentated the codeine at all or as much as people say it should. From experience however, I have not noticed neither an increase nor a decrease in my codeine high, its not like I have to take half the dose but when I take it with amobarbital its much like taking a benzo with it just a lot better.

    If you have phenobarb on you hands its worth doing a search since I've long heard of using barbs to potentate many drugs but codeine specifically.
    Unfortunatley by itself phenobarbital is not recreational unless you want to kick a huge benzo, alcohol or GHB habbit in which case it could be very useful, not for its sedating propeties (which aren't much) but specifically for the anti seizure/epilepsy properties which outrival that of the benzos..other than that forget about it, give it to the dogs!
    Last edited by muie; 19-09-2013 at 05:51.
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