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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Four

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Somebody should to a mass spectrometry on some degraded 4-AcO and see what comes up.
 
What are you thinking is more effective? Plugging, snorting or just toss n' wash 4-AcO-DMT?
 
Plugging is usually most effective, followed by nasal then oral.

If 4-AcO tryptamines are indeed prodrugs metabolised in the liver then order will likely be reversed.
 
this feels like a linear shroom trip. as opposed to the nutty chaos (peaks and valleys) of mushrooms.
 
I don't know, I definitely notice 4-AcO coming in waves almost every time. I'll have periods of insane euphoria, laughing until I'm crying, followed immediately by periods of deep introspection, often accompanied by shame/regret/sadness/etc, followed immediately by another wave of euphoria, etc., etc.
 
to me, this stuff only resembles mushrooms on the surface...it is different enough that I love it; never been a fan of mushrooms...even when I grew them. :)

Like the other AcOs, there is no real proof it breaks down (in the body) to the parent HO-T. Shulgin speculated as such and so it seems to be gospel, but I am not convinced at all.
 
I don't know if this is against the rules for asking but I have 100 mg of 4-aco-dmt and was wondering what dosage would put me at a level four experience. I've taken 15 mg, 20 mg, 25 mg with a 3 mg booster and have only reached a middle of the road three. It's furmate salt, do I just have a natural tolerance to the subtance? I know everyone reacts different but if someone could give me there experiences on it. I have an accurate scale so that's not the problem and I believe the product to be pure although I haven't had it tested
 
Opeon said:
I don't know if this is against the rules for asking but I have 100 mg of 4-aco-dmt and was wondering what dosage would put me at a level four experience. I've taken 15 mg, 20 mg, 25 mg with a 3 mg booster and have only reached a middle of the road three. It's furmate salt, do I just have a natural tolerance to the subtance? I know everyone reacts different but if someone could give me there experiences on it. I have an accurate scale so that's not the problem and I believe the product to be pure although I haven't had it tested
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It's impossible to say as everyone reacts differently indeed. However I'm sure if you keep raising the dosage you'll reach the right level eventually. There really is no other way to know.
 
+4 is unrelated to dosage or intensity, and is not related to 1, +2, +3, etc. It is a qualitative label, vs quantitative. You can have a +4 on a tiny dose of a psychedelic, or a whopping dose. Google '+4' and 'PIHKAL' for further information.
 
^ I wouldn't say totally unrelated, IMO there is definitely a correlation between dosage/intensity and +4 states, if not a somewhat tenuous one. +4 states do tend to be intense, and they are often observed in high-dose cases. But it is true that it's not as causally simple as keeping raising the dose -> eventual + 4 state.

The point of this is, if you want to achieve a "+4" (I still have qualms about this term and the scope of what it entails), by all means raise your dose, but more importantly, be in the right setting and prepare yourself psychologically, which can take a lot of time.
 
IamMe90 said:
^ I wouldn't say totally unrelated, IMO there is definitely a correlation between dosage/intensity and +4 states, if not a somewhat tenuous one. +4 states do tend to be intense, and they are often observed in high-dose cases. But it is true that it's not as causally simple as keeping raising the dose -> eventual + 4 state.
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I don't mean to argue, but read again...you are wrong at least as far as Sasha explains the +4. Shulgin's ALEPH-4 trip comes to mind, which is in book 1 of TIHKAL and not available online. As stated, 4 is a rare transcendental state unrelated to dose or intensity. And it is not repeatable at the same dose. In my own case, I have had a +4 on a small dose of DMT (IM) that was completely unrelated to intensity. I also think back to early MDA experiences which were nowhere near as intense as more traditional psychedelics....if the experience was even psychedelic at all...which brings to mind that a +4 can happen even on alcohol...two old best friends would fondly recall such an experience involving alcohol and camping in the desert.
 
morninggloryseed said:
I don't mean to argue, but read again...you are wrong at least as far as Sasha explains the +4. Shulgin's ALEPH-4 trip comes to mind, which is in book 1 of TIHKAL and not available online. As stated, 4 is a rare transcendental state unrelated to dose or intensity. And it is not repeatable at the same dose. In my own case, I have had a +4 on a small dose of DMT (IM) that was completely unrelated to intensity. I also think back to early MDA experiences which were nowhere near as intense as more traditional psychedelics....if the experience was even psychedelic at all...which brings to mind that a +4 can happen even on alcohol...two old best friends would fondly recall such an experience involving alcohol and camping in the desert.
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Well, as I said, I have qualms with his definition as it reads literally. Whether or not the state is intense or whether it could be repeated at the same dose is a purely empirical matter and not something definitional. I don't think Sasha is trying to postulate an analytic statement that a +4 by definition can't be related to intensity or dose (even if it reads that way literally); I think he's just saying we can't reliably pin down intensity and dose as factors causally related to +4 states. But that doesn't mean we can't observe that quite a lot of people describe their +4 states as intense, and in fact I would argue that most people do describe them as intense (whether it be divine, intensely blissful, ineffable, etc), which in itself is a kind of relationship. If the state really cannot have any relationship to intensity, I think that what most people are describing as +4 states then are not really +4 states in the way Shulgin means, which is fine, but if so the term doesn't seem to hold much relevance to today's drug culture anymore.

That's just my take though, I'm not trying to be combative or anything. I think we agree on what to take out of the definition anyway, which is that you can't reliably ramp up the dose a churn out +4 experiences.
 
What does it matter what a definition says? It all depends on how much you enjoy the show =D
 
I just find it fun to discuss things like definitions, but you're right, it doesn't really matter. :)
 
Fair enough/agree. :)

IamMe90 said:
Well, as I said, I have qualms with his definition as it reads literally. Whether or not the state is intense or whether it could be repeated at the same dose is a purely empirical matter and not something definitional. I don't think Sasha is trying to postulate an analytic statement that a +4 by definition can't be related to intensity or dose (even if it reads that way literally); I think he's just saying we can't reliably pin down intensity and dose as factors causally related to +4 states. But that doesn't mean we can't observe that quite a lot of people describe their +4 states as intense, and in fact I would argue that most people do describe them as intense (whether it be divine, intensely blissful, ineffable, etc), which in itself is a kind of relationship. If the state really cannot have any relationship to intensity, I think that what most people are describing as +4 states then are not really +4 states in the way Shulgin means, which is fine, but if so the term doesn't seem to hold much relevance to today's drug culture anymore.

That's just my take though, I'm not trying to be combative or anything. I think we agree on what to take out of the definition anyway, which is that you can't reliably ramp up the dose a churn out +4 experiences.
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morninggloryseed said:
Like the other AcOs, there is no real proof it breaks down (in the body) to the parent HO-T. Shulgin speculated as such and so it seems to be gospel, but I am not convinced at all.
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I've never believed this myself, because I've had several experiences with both 4-HO-DiPT and 4-AcO-DiPT, and they consistently have very different effects in me. The main difference being duration - ipracetin lasts about 6-8 hours, like other 4-sub tryptamines, but iprocin gave me effects for a good 18-20 hours with residual stimulation lasting well into the next day (I know this is very unusual, must be my unique biochemistry huh ;)).
 
So there is anyway to help have a profound experience? Meditating Ect.
 
Uhh, good intent, meditating, 'prayer' (if you subscribe to such a thing), spacing out trips so you aren't tripping regularly, new settings (I think outdoors if you are comfortable with it always makes for the best trips), beyond that the +4 is elusive, almost a crap shoot in my experience. I am sure I have had several hundred trips in my career but only a half-dozen real +4s remain in memory. Thank goodness I keep good notes.
 
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