ahem, not to be rude, but do you understand what base is? Base IS the active CNS ingredient.
I assumed you meant base as in freebase.
Definition - Freebase or free base refers to the pure basic form of an amine, as opposed to its salt form.
To decypher what an isolated
base means I looked up the definition.
Definition - A base in chemistry is a substance that can accept hydrogen ions (protons) or more generally, donate a pair of valence electrons.
Definition - A Base or Alkali (in chemistry ) means having a pH (on the pH scale) of more than 7 out of 1-14 (7 being neutral, and less than 7 being acid). It is a substance that can accept protons.
defenition - A base is a chemical species that donates electrons or hydroxide ions or that accepts protons.
Once the MDMA molecule has accepted the proton from the acid I dont know if it remains a base? i dont know if you are right or wrong?
How do you define base simply?
but if the purpose of you referring to base is to simplify things then I might disagree with this plan.
This is definitely getting out of the domain of the typical user particularly if we are referring to very specific chemistry terms in this way. we are now getting into the realms of defining the difference between bases and freebases. That is fine but if in your argument you suggest I am being pedantic with the 84% issue then I might suggest this is also going in the same direction.
100% PURE MDMA HCl = 84% MDMA base.
if your definition is correct then yes this is true. But as stated above this is not making things simple which I assume is the basis for your argument.
Saying something is less than 100% "pure" implies that there are impurities, and that further purification process can be undergone.
Agreed - if you want to make MDMA 100% pure the acid molecule is the impurity.
And yes a further purification can be done by bringing the MDMA back to freebase form.
Saying 100% MDMA HCl = 84% MDMA base is correct.
I dont know about the reference to base. But yes this makes sense.
Base is the unbound molecule.
Interesting you say this. thats how I interpret base. The only issue is the molecule is bonded. I dont know if this still makes the MDMA molecule a base?
84% is the amount of BASE in the MDMA HCl molecule.
Dont understand what you mean?
Obviously it's not in "freebase" when it's bound as an HCl salt. But the BASE MDMA molecule still exists in the HCl salt, in a portion of 84% by molecular mass. It's easily separable from the HCl salt.
Makes sense
You can keep arguing this for sake of having the last word,
Its not a last word issue its an issue of what information we present to the typical user. The outcome of this will influence my HR advice I give out.
but 100% pure MDMA as a consumer product is 84% MDMA molecular "base".
For HCL yes. This rule applies as long as we mean HCL otherwise not true.
Saying "you're MDMA is not 100% pure, it's only 84%" is semantics.
Yes we are effectively looking into the meaning of this comment.
MDMA in it's purest consumable form is 100% MDMA HCl. 84% of the molecular mass is in MDMA base, bound to the 16% HCl ion.
Its a relatively complex way of saying it but yes this is correct.
Again, we are not chemists. Nobody here is messing with the freebase. MDMA, as far as for harm reduction sake from a strictly consumer end, is 100% pure at 84% MDMA base and 16% HCl ion.
Were not messing with freebase but it does exist. Maybe lets see what streetworx say.
Saying that 100% pure is only 84% is plain false. This myth gets repeated over and over, and I rarely ever see anyone here ever say the word "base" or HCl in the same sentence as "84% pure MDMA".
Its not false. its not a myth. You dont need to say either base or hcl it only contains 84% of active content.
The 84% number should ONLY be referred to with the terms "base" & "HCl" in the same sentence, because that's precisely what the number refers to. But this will be repeated over and over as "MDMA can only be 84% pure" without the terms "HCl" or "base" in the sentence. That is WRONG to say "84%" without saying "HCl" and "MDMA base".
If this is some kind of simplification process you have me baffled?? i think we are either saying 84% MDMA + Acid or we are just saying MDMA HCL I assumed that was the basis of the discussion.
How educated is the average American 16 year old lurker of this forum? The average 16 year old here copies "the smart kid" in high school chemistry, does not even know what molecular mass or HCl ions are, and does not care to learn about this. They are simply interested in learning some basic shit about taking "E"/"XTC", staying safe at raves etc. They do not have the mental capacity to read about HCl ions and chemistry.
Half of them get confused when you tell them MDMA releases serotonin and downregulates the SERT, which is why long breaks are needed. Explaining molecular weight and HCl salts is pointless, and just going to be paraphrased to mean "MDMA can only be 84%"
Well were not just talking about Americans of course. I still think this is a little unfair. I cant say what someone may or may not understand. I dont think however this is a good argument to limit any form of information. Your argument is kind of censorship based in a way. Not good me feels.
I could imagine a time, but when will that be (if ever?) The DEA only allows Edata to post ratios of base active chemicals to eachother for US pills. Streetwork has a different system perhaps. But they are unclear how they calculate the mg's, salts, etc. So we can just assume for dosing sake, they mean HCl.
For now we are assuming but lets hope this gets cleared up soon enough. I have the relevant emails out there just a waiting game. I think the outcome of this will be quite interesting.
Maybe not life or death, but at what point do we draw the line? Perhaps 16% doesn't seem like it's a big deal, but what if the person already consumes 400-500 mg at once, wants to bump it up 16%? So then they take 580 mg, instead of 500? What point does the dosage cross the threshold of 'overdose'. What point does it cross the threshold of hyperthermia? Where do we draw the line?
Yes valid point. I guess see what edata come back with. will be interesting to see. Might change things a bit..