Bluelight

Thread: Adderall is to meth addiction as Methadone is to opiate addiction

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. Collapse Details
    Adderall is to meth addiction as Methadone is to opiate addiction 
    #1
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    114
    I consider myself addicted to crystal meth, and the only way I can see myself never using meth again is if I hada prescription to Adderall/Dextroamphetamine as a replacement.I have heard many psychiatrists are starting to use Adderall to treat meth addiction like methadone is given to heroin addicts. I have a referral for a shrink that specializes in addiction psychiatry and contemplating making an appt, and telling him of my addiction, and a desire to completely abstain from using methamphetamine if I could receive a replacement for meth in the form of a once a day Adderall XR prescription. If I can't get it, I know i will always use meth like i have been, but its worth a shot. Whaddya think?
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Bluelighter fatstep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Hickory
    Posts
    790
    Adderall has to be approved for maintenance by the fda before this can happen, I highly doubt he would do it off label.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Moderator
    Australian Drug Discussion
    footscrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    pagan dream machine
    Posts
    4,488
    I don't believe you can equate adderall to methadone or bupe. Methamphetamine addiction is very different from opioid addiction, I believe it's a red herring to think that because maintenance/substitution works for one addiction, that it'll automatically transfer to another type of addiction.

    It depends what your goals are - but it's is my belief that if you aim to quit, substitution with prescribed amphetamines has little value. If not, I also think that switching to them over meth has limited value in terms of being 'healthier'. There's an argument to be made that being prescribed a legal alternative reduces many of the harms that are associated with drugs simply because they're illegal - price, legal worries and so on - but as a prior meth addict, at least IMO, I find the idea of 'substitution' for meth completely inapplicable. Unlike opioids, whereas I find even a small amount, not enough to get me high, will provide relief if I'm in wd, I found the opposite with meth - using a little bit kicked the cravings into overdrive and set my mind on one task only - get more. Furthermore, amp or meth are both ultimately unsustainable in the long run, at least not without continuing decline in mental faculties and physical health.

    I agree that's it's very unlikely you'll be legally prescribed amps as a treatment for your meth addiction. I also think it's worth asking yourself what exactly it is you think are the benefits of using adderall over meth?
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by footscrazy View Post
    I don't believe you can equate adderall to methadone or bupe. Methamphetamine addiction is very different from opioid addiction, I believe it's a red herring to think that because maintenance/substitution works for one addiction, that it'll automatically transfer to another type of addiction.

    It depends what your goals are - but it's is my belief that if you aim to quit, substitution with prescribed amphetamines has little value. If not, I also think that switching to them over meth has limited value in terms of being 'healthier'. There's an argument to be made that being prescribed a legal alternative reduces many of the harms that are associated with drugs simply because they're illegal - price, legal worries and so on - but as a prior meth addict, at least IMO, I find the idea of 'substitution' for meth completely inapplicable. Unlike opioids, whereas I find even a small amount, not enough to get me high, will provide relief if I'm in wd, I found the opposite with meth - using a little bit kicked the cravings into overdrive and set my mind on one task only - get more. Furthermore, amp or meth are both ultimately unsustainable in the long run, at least not without continuing decline in mental faculties and physical health.

    I agree that's it's very unlikely you'll be legally prescribed amps as a treatment for your meth addiction. I also think it's worth asking yourself what exactly it is you think are the benefits of using adderall over meth?
    Ty for ur input. I think adderall would be better for a few reasons..

    1. Amphetamine is not neurotoxic, whereas METHamphetamine is (main reason)
    2. Amphetamine is not quite as potent, but similar enough I could enjoy the stimulation, retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz. Refucing major missed psychological cravings.
    3. Pharmaceutical amp/dextro amp is made in professional labs by certified trained chemists, crystal is made with what is cheap and done mostly by unexperienced underground cooks.
    4. Cost; a 30 day script for adderall is under $15.00 under my ins, im lookin at over $100.00 for potent shards.
    5. Legality: Dextroamp is legal with a valid prescription (obviously)

    There ya go. I know stimulant addiction is drastically different that opiod addictions; however just because there is no physical dependence with amphetamines, the hellish psychological addiction almost makes up for physical addiction and if you truly struggled with meth addiction
    i know you would definitely agree with me. So now, do I have any valid reasonings here?
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    Moderator
    The Lounge
    Roger&Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    LoPro for DexBro
    Posts
    18,912
    ^Regular ol' amphetamine is most certainly neurotoxic, excessive dopamine release itself is neurotoxic because dopamine is metabolized via a toxic peroxide intermediate. Study your basic pharmacology, yo.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    it isn't comparable that's for sure, and my advise to you is this I once told a psy that I wanted to never do street drugs or any illegal drugs, and asked if you would prescribe me adderal telling him that I was scared if I didn't have it I would want to use street drugs. He claimed I was trying to blackmail him and called me a drug addict... lol... I mean you tell them the truth and they punish you had I told him the symptoms of ADD instead and played dumb I prob could of gotton it... but I had decided I wouldn't lie to doctors about something like that. Anyway I doubt he will give it to you, and I don't think it will work that way I think the stimulants would make you crave more instead of satisfying your desire to use. I mean do you do a little meth then feel like you had enough? Or do you keep doing it and doing it untill your out and need more.. ask your self that *shrug* BTW IMO not a good idea just quit drugs... I have heard of using stims to get off of opiates in other countries they prescribe them for that, but never have I heard of anything for stims... any drug that helps a person get off of them I think you just gotta suck it up and quit *shrug*

    BTW I had the same idea as you at one point in my life, and I wonder if the stupid doctor had given me what I wanted if maybe I things would of worked out better, but im just saying In all my years of life never once has telling the truth giving valid reasons and any amount of info ever gotton me what I asked for with doctors (essp) when it comes to a drug like that. In theory though it makes sense if your going to use drugs no matter what, you might as well get them from a doctor right? IF you know your not going to quit and stay clean ... but that doesn't mean abuse it ... My reasoning is that you might be self medicating with meth for ADD and so by treating the ADD with proper medication your cravings may go away

    self medication is a very crazy thing its amazing what you do to your self with out knowing it.

    just my thoughts could be wrong
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    Bluelighter Jean-Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    the great shape of the agriculture
    Posts
    1,464
    i would like to ask a similar thing. i took adderrall for the first time in years, it was enjoyable while i was coming up, but quickly i was just anxiety ridden and edgy. is meth essentially like amphetamines, but stronger? so intensify that feeling? or is there some other way you could describe it to me besides that? not going to do meth to find out.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    Senior Moderator
    Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion
    Philosophy and Spirituality
    ebola?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Norfair, Zebes
    Posts
    20,030
    Quote Originally Posted by roger and me
    Regular ol' amphetamine is most certainly neurotoxic, excessive dopamine release itself is neurotoxic because dopamine is metabolized via a toxic peroxide intermediate. Study your basic pharmacology, yo.
    Sort of. For reasons not entirely understood, methamphetamine is a great deal more neurotoxic than amphetamine at equistimulating doses (where similar quantities of dopamine are released, and thus similar quantities of oxidative species are produced). Animal studies suggest that reasonable doses of amphetamine (~40 mg orally ingested d-amphetamine?) are not relevantly neurotoxic while no innocuous level of methamphetamine has been found.

    ebola

    Getting high? RTFM: Bluelight Drug FAQs | Bluelight WIKI
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post
    Sort of. For reasons not entirely understood, methamphetamine is a great deal more neurotoxic than amphetamine at equistimulating doses (where similar quantities of dopamine are released, and thus similar quantities of oxidative species are produced). Animal studies suggest that reasonable doses of amphetamine (~40 mg orally ingested d-amphetamine?) are not relevantly neurotoxic while no innocuous level of methamphetamine has been found.

    ebola
    Thank you, that is what I was trying to get at, therapeutic doses of d-amphetamine are not neurotoxic, so perhaps "Roger&Me" needs to study therapeutic neurological effects of d-amphetamine a little better before trying to call me out..just sayin
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Moderator
    Australian Drug Discussion
    footscrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    pagan dream machine
    Posts
    4,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Stimlover22
    So now, do I have any valid reasonings here?
    Yes you do. I said there benefits to using adderall in my initial post; you've included them in your reasons here. I do wonder about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stimlover
    2. Amphetamine is not quite as potent, but similar enough I could enjoy the stimulation, retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz. Refucing major missed psychological cravings.
    As I also brought up initially, at least for me, using less meth/amp than I needed would usually make me crave a lot more. I think this is a real risk with meth/amphetamines. I also have my doubts you will 'retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz' on adderall. IME, pharmaceutical amphetamines are much weaker than meth, and if you have a decent meth habit or use reasonably pure shards, you're probably not going to feel much, if anything, from a therepeutical dose of amphetamine. Given you've mentioned the severe psychological dependence, do you think it's realistic that you'll be satisfied with adderall and will able to stick to a small dose, especially if you don't get much effect off it? Considering that the damage from amphetamine is more pronounced with higher dosages, if you went overboard trying to catch a buzz, this is something to keep in mind.
    Reply With Quote
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    You're likely to abuse the Adderall script. I have an adderall addiction and everytime in the past I've tried to take therapeutic doses I end up caving in and binging again.

    Cold turkey was the only way I've been able to stay sober. Being that you have a meth addiction your situation is very unlikely to be different from mine.

    How deep is your addiction? How long and often have you used?
    Reply With Quote
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    I've heard of some doctors giving low doses of ritalin for cocaine/meth addiction, and ritalin in high doses is more uncomfortable than recreational. If not, ask about wellbutrin, it has virtually no abuse potential unless you're dumb enough to IV it, and it's a mild DRI.

    Another good thing for stimulant withdrawal is ephedrine. It's OTC in the US still and if I'm coming off of a 2-FMA binge, taking 100-150mg helps the anhedonia and no energy part of it. It's far more potent of an NE releaser than a DA releaser though so don't do it if you have a bad heart.
    Reply With Quote
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    VIC, Australia
    Posts
    20
    Dont take any prescription amphetamines as a substitute to methamphetamines. IME it had the opposite effect.... i kept popping the pills trying to get that same feeling that smoking meth did, but all it did was give me terrible anxiety and made me sooo edgy and shitty. Not to mention my tolerance for "amphetamines" sky-rocketed! So when i did get on the gear i was going through it so much quicker. Once you've developed an addiction for the illegal stuff its hard to go back to the legal/prescribed stuff.... there is just no comparison....
    Reply With Quote
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bounceygirl View Post
    Dont take any prescription amphetamines as a substitute to methamphetamines. IME it had the opposite effect.... i kept popping the pills trying to get that same feeling that smoking meth did, but all it did was give me terrible anxiety and made me sooo edgy and shitty. Not to mention my tolerance for "amphetamines" sky-rocketed! So when i did get on the gear i was going through it so much quicker. Once you've developed an addiction for the illegal stuff its hard to go back to the legal/prescribed stuff.... there is just no comparison....
    You're joking, right?

    Even with my very high stimulant tolerance, a low stimulant dose won't get me high, but it'll keep me from feeling like crap, and if I need to take a tolerance break, tapering is FAR, FAR less painful than cold turkey-ing it like most seem to.
    Last edited by JackiesBabyy; 23-08-2012 at 19:11.
    Reply With Quote
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.
    Reply With Quote
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by $ublimaze View Post
    For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.
    You have to take therapeutic does of amps for quite a while to get any neurotoxicity, and even then it's unlikely to even really be noticable.

    I've been taking assanine doses of adderall for a year and a half, towards the last 6 months I've even exceeding 400 mg/day at times. I was clean for 2 weeks prior to this morning and my cognitive functions mirror what they were prior to they were when I tried speed. I don't know how far I can go before any deficits become permanent and I hopefully won't find out, but I'm also 23 years old and my body seems to compensate better than average. On top of that I also body build and take part in other activities that increase neuroplasticity in addition to practicing in quite a bit of harm reduction.

    Results will vary significantly from person to person however, I'm simply giving my personal experience.

    On a related note, brain damage from amps is mostly caused by dopamine being down-regulated over time. When you stop your body slowly starts to up-regulate to (hopefully) get your levels back to where they were previously.

    If you were somehow able to keep from abusing adderall (which is EXTREMELY unlikely), I suppose it could be beneficial in the sense of using it to drop a meth addiction to keep you strong during the early withdrawl phase. It would also be beneficial in the sense of using it to supplement for meth if you lack the willpower to drop the habit entirely.

    HOWEVER, keeping your dopamine levels falsely elevated with adderall won't allow your body to up-regulate itself and you will still be stuck in a harmful addiction, and for that reason among other things I would recommend cutting cold turkey. L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP will help quite a bit in reducing withdrawl symptoms, they are prerequisites to the neurotransmitters you're now lacking from your meth use and will assist in helping bring those levels back up.

    Good luck with whatever you do and stay strong.
    Reply With Quote
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by $ublimaze View Post
    For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.
    You know what else is toxic? The chemical particles in the air (unless you live in a very rural, secluded area) you breathe and the preservatives in almost all food you eat.

    They checked all of those kids who grew up on ritalin and adderall for signs of neurotoxicity, there were none. They showed no heart or brain abnormalities.
    Reply With Quote
     

  18. Collapse Details
     
    #18
    As someone that was using 20-50mg of street meth daily as a way of giving myself a cheap "psuedo-adderall script" I found vyvanse to be the most effective at tapering off of the addiction. Vyvanse is metabolized in such a way that provides the user with satisfaction, but does not seem to do the same damage that other amphetamines do.

    Though. Life is much better without amphetamines. Therapeutic or recreational.


    Quote Originally Posted by JackiesBabyy View Post
    They checked all of those kids who grew up on ritalin and adderall for signs of neurotoxicity, there were none. They showed no heart or brain abnormalities.
    I strongly question that study as both of those drugs have influence on a broad range of hormones that can effect development during puberty.
    Reply With Quote
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Renz Envy View Post
    As someone that was using 20-50mg of street meth daily as a way of giving myself a cheap "psuedo-adderall script" I found vyvanse to be the most effective at tapering off of the addiction. Vyvanse is metabolized in such a way that provides the user with satisfaction, but does not seem to do the same damage that other amphetamines do.
    I disagree with the Vyvense remark. It is full of levo-amp, which has no euphoric effect and greatly increases the damage to the heart and cardiovascular system.

    levo-amp= norepi reuptake inhibitor, no recreational use but it it vasoconstricts and increases HR.

    dextro-amp= dopamine reuptake inhibitor(for the most part), it is what causes the euphoria from Adderall abuse and although it vasoconstricts and increases HR, it doesn't do so to the extent that levo-amp does.


    Adderall= roughly 75% dextro-amp and 25% levo amp

    Vyvanse= roughly 25% dextro-amp and 75% levo amp

    I was taking EXTREMELY high doses when it was all I had and experiencing arrhythmias more frequently than I do with Adderall. Not to mention the stuff lasts for EVER, especially when taking recreational doses.
    Reply With Quote
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    114
    [QUOTE=RR279;10845687]I disagree with the Vyvense remark. It is full of levo-amp, which has no euphoric effect and greatly increases the damage to the heart and cardiovascular system.

    levo-amp= norepi reuptake inhibitor, no recreational use but it it vasoconstricts and increases HR.

    dextro-amp= dopamine reuptake inhibitor(for the most part), it is what causes the euphoria from Adderall abuse and although it vasoconstricts and increases HR, it doesn't do so to the extent that levo-amp does.


    Adderall= roughly 75% dextro-amp and 25% levo amp

    Vyvanse= roughly 25% dextro-amp and 75% levo amp

    I was taking EXTREMELY high doses when it was all I had and experiencing arrhythmias more frequently than I do with Adderall. Not to mention the stuff lasts for EVER, especially when taking recreational doses.[/QUOTE

    Idk man, when I took two 70mg vyvanse first time awhile back, I got pretty spun and a decent mood lift for about 12-15 hrs, pretty consistent while absolutely no ups and downs
    Reply With Quote
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    Hey man... not sure where you're at with this.. its been a few months.
    Sorry about the length, but here's what I had to do.

    I was treated for depression and, through my Dr's orders, worked my way through the grab bag of available anti-depressants. After six months of trying a new pill every 4-6 weeks, and when my Dr. was ready to prescribe the next version of the same crap I told him that I quit taking all AD's cold turkey three weeks prior and haven't felt the slightest hint of a withdrawal symptom, just as I never felt the slightest effect from any of the AD's I was prescribed. I advised him that since I never felt a thing from the meds, and since when I quit taking such a high dosage so suddenly and felt no (added) ill effect due to it whatsoever, I have come to the determination that AD's ONLY work if the patients believe they work. That's why there are so many different 'brands' and formulations of the crap... so you keep taking the next one until you convince yourself that one of them is working for you.

    My doctor failed miserably at defending AD's at this point. When I began discussing the fact that AD's as a whole have about a 55% effectiveness rating I asked him if it's right that prescribing medication should really be the equivalent of a coin toss.. . What I heard in my head was the Dr. saying to me.. "eh.. maybe this will do something, maybe not.. just convince yourself it's working please. That's what you're supposed to do."

    After sharing my feelings, I stated that my issue continues to be the inability to complete tasks and finish projects. I don't have to worry about college $ but never finished even an associates degree despite taking years of classes.. I would have 15 songs 50% complete (I play bass) and never complete one. I stated that I cannot simply sit someplace and feel comfortable and relaxed... ever. I had been mentioning Adderall throughout the various Dr.'s appointments, but since the Dr. was aware that I had a past history of casually using drugs (casual history... never 'addicted' to any particular drug) he would always combat my recommendation by basically holding the stance that you can't develop ADHD, you have to be born with it.

    Since I never really displayed extreme hyperactive moods I didn't have the history of your standard "ADHD kid" (teachers sending letters home... etc.. ) but I was also extremely active, being driven from one sport to the next.. playing outside with any number of a million kids my age in my neighborhood... always going somewhere and doing something so I feel that most of my symptoms were alleviated and hidden by so much activity so my Attention Deficit condition wasn't obvious. When childhood ends, however, and the pace slows... those symptoms can become more obvious. It was certainly at about age 18-22 when, looking back, my discomfort really began. I presented the argument that although I may not be hyperactive... to the extent I am bouncing of walls and uncontrollable without meds, I certainly have an attention deficit issue and for this reason feel I should be prescribed Adderall. It worked for me and I feel a ton better. This is actually my true story, but feel free to use it as a backup. lol.


    P.S.: I am also aware that there is a pretty significant Adderall shortage (which personally I find shocking considering the ease of amphetamine production and the wide availability of base compounds) which I'm sure is held over the heads of prescribing doctors by the bureaucrats in charge in an effort to limit the number of scripts written. When I was prescribed 20mg XR, the very first time I went to get it from the pharmacy the pharmacy tech immediately had to say "Oh.. well, let me see if we have any of these in...". They did, but it was a clear sign to me that apparently there's a supply issue. That, and the fact that the Pharmaceutical industry wants you to buy their sugar pills with the fancy name and their scientific evidence-lacking exaggeratedly hopeful commercial with the whimsical animated people and side effect warnings... not the cheap effective stuff.
    Last edited by detroitjames; 01-12-2012 at 20:49.
    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •