Drug Harm Alcohol vs Heroin

[Allein]

This discussion has come up in a number of threads so I thought it would be a good idea for it to have it's won place.

Please keep the discussion factual and civil so people can share information and discuss the issue constructively.

I've never had an opiate problem but had a bit of a run in with the bottle after more than 2 decades of casual use with no problems.

Other posts have clearly referenced an article published in the Lancet:-

Drug harms in the UK

This article does suggest that the overall impact of alcohol is worse than Heroin, you can see the full article by a simple registration.

 

[Ismene]

Best article I've ever read on this "Make heroin legal" by Nick Davies.

Says apart from constipation and addiction heroin is about the most benign drug known to mankind. Causes no organ damage or health problems even if you use it for 70 years. Says if you overdosed even as much as twice your normal dose all that happens is you fall asleep for a while. No organ damage at all.

As long as you're getting prescribed heroin rather than the impure stuff.

 

[backroll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC_nrLIc2Zk

Nick Davies is a fucking legend. I interviewed him some years ago when I was pretending to be a student. Truly inspirational, a renegade journalist who don't give two fucks about the establishment. Check his book Flat Earth News...

But yeah the facts speak for themselves...It's so very convenient and lovely to tax booze and demonise heroin. Those in power have to have their underclass, their sub human untouchables. It's how they remain at the top. Daily Mail Nation.

I have had 4 hours sleep (all i ever need), been smoking most of the night, and got up early to have a smoke before a long ass day at work (won't get in til after 1am). As we all know 12 hour shifts on a hangover are super productive. NOT!

 

[Myshkin]

As long as you're getting prescribed heroin rather than the impure stuff.

I think it's important to emphasise the distinction between actual heroin (i.e. diamorphine hydrochloride) and the 'heroin' on the streets (which might be contaminated diamorphine freebase if you're lucky), which can contain any number of nasty adulterants with plenty of potential to endanger your health. To say nothing of inconsistencies in strength and so on.

Of course, the latter only exists because of the ridiculously ill-conceived 'moralistic' prohibition of the former. As demonstrations of short-sightedness and perversity in government policy go, there aren't many I can think of which can top it.

 

[Ham420]

"The British Medical Journal on 27th of July 2012 published an extensive study scaling the harm caused to ones self and to others due to substance use. The study looked at the 19 most commonly used drugs both legal and illicit. Heroin was ranked at number 1 whilst Alcohol sat in 4th place and cannabis came bottom being deemed least harmful in all 3 tables."

Link to article: http://norml-uk.org/2012/08/cannabis-is-least-harmful-substance-in-published-british-medical-journal-harm-to-self-and-others-study/



Link to BMJ http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/4/e000774.full

 

[Ismene]

^^

That's based on heroin being prohibited tho. Once you legalise it no-one has to spend their lives hunting for it and injecting to try and keep the cost down.

 

[knock]

"The British Medical Journal on 27th of July 2012 published an extensive study scaling the harm caused to ones self and to others due to substance use. The study looked at the 19 most commonly used drugs both legal and illicit. Heroin was ranked at number 1 whilst Alcohol sat in 4th place and cannabis came bottom being deemed least harmful in all 3 tables."

Link to article: http://norml-uk.org/2012/08/cannabis-is-least-harmful-substance-in-published-british-medical-journal-harm-to-self-and-others-study/



Link to BMJ http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/4/e000774.full

Links are arse over tit!

Let me fix that for you.

Cannabis Is Least Harmful Substance in Published British Medical Journal ‘Harm To Self And Others’ Study.
Quantifying the RR of harm to self and others from substance misuse: results from a survey of clinical experts across Scotland

^^

That's based on heroin being prohibited tho. Once you legalise it no-one has to spend their lives hunting for it and injecting to try and keep the cost down.

Yes. Addiction specialist were asked to rank various drugs:

there was explicit guidance provided emphasising that the harm rankings should be based on the experts' global clinical experience of the population seen in addictions services (ie, not based on an understanding of ‘milder’ wider society use patterns).

So the study is based on data about people reporting to addiction services with problems; no attempt is made to uncover the root cause of the problems.

 

[Crankinit]

Yeah that study is flawed because it's based on the use of adulterated street heroin with unsterile administration. Once you swap to pharmaceutical grade heroin administered in a proper, clean manner, all of those dangers disappear. The problems are a direct result of heroin prohibition, which is why so many people argue for some alternative.

 

[Ham420]

Links are arse over tit!

Let me fix that for you.

Bwhahaha, oh dear me. Early morning and trying to be quick / discrete at work did not do me any favors there.



EDIT: Aye totally agree with you on that one. Nice to see the 'erb is escaping being demonized though

 

[eireann]

heroins addictive properties make legalizing it a disaster area,who cares if its less lethal on the body than alcohol the social implications of legal heroin would be far greater than alcohol due to heroins addiction rate,as a former heroin addict i can tell you the drug transforms you in to a lying cheating thief with no genuine emotions or feelings for any one or thing except heroin itself. you will see addicts looking for heroin to be legalized as they are looking to blame the gov and every one else for their problems,they like to believe its the legality of heroin thats destroying their life not the drug its self,if only that were true as alcohol is legal and we still have alcoholics living on the street and encountering day to day problems due to their addiction....

in my opinion they are both shitty drugs. we already have alcohol on sale in our towns,lets not add to the fire with heroin too

 

[Cornishman]

Good post Eireann.

I can't say I agree about heroin turning you into a lying cheating thief.

Guess it happens to alot of people, but the only time I stole to fund my addiction was during my teen years to by cannabis.

 

[knock]

heroins addictive properties make legalizing it a disaster area

But it makes prohibition an even bigger disaster area.

who cares if its less lethal on the body than alcohol the social implications of legal heroin would be far greater than alcohol due to heroins addiction rate

How many people have just one drink? Most drinkers I know are to some extent dependent.

as a former heroin addict i can tell you the drug transforms you in to a lying cheating thief with no genuine emotions or feelings for any one or thing except heroin itself. you will see addicts looking for heroin to be legalized as they are looking to blame the gov and every one else for their problems,they like to believe its the legality of heroin thats destroying their life not the drug its self

I've never been a heroin addict so I can't comment.

if only that were true as alcohol is legal and we still have alcoholics living on the street and encountering day to day problems due to their addiction....

Look at 1920s US prohibition.

in my opinion they are both shitty drugs. we already have alcohol on sale in our towns,lets not add to the fire with heroin too

Heroin is on sale in our towns.

 

[eireann]

thank you cornishman

i well believe you with youre cannabis statement,people cant afford morals when they have an addiction.

the only reason i get so vexed about heroin addiction,is because i have known people who died from it,and who went to jail and lost everything because of heroin.
i have met at least 100 addicts,and not one of them have told me they enjoy being an addict,i believe you enjoy they buzz. but people who enjoy the lifestyle and fight for the rights of heroin use turn my stomach,surely as you have used heroin cornish you know its too destructive to be legally unleashed on society?

 

[Urbain]

Politics is the overriding factor to this discussion.

 

[Cornishman]

thank you cornishman

i well believe you with youre cannabis statement,people cant afford morals when they have an addiction.
work
the only reason i get so vexed about heroin addiction,is because i have known people who died from it,and who went to jail and lost everything because of heroin.
i have met at least 100 addicts,and not one of them have told me they enjoy being an addict,i believe you enjoy they buzz. but people who enjoy the lifestyle and fight for the rights of heroin use turn my stomach,surely as you have used heroin cornish you know its too destructive to be legally unleashed on society?

The media needs to be fixed before our drug laws. Maybe then people will be ready to act and behave like adults.

I believe I would still have a job had I turned up to work high on alcohol instead of the evil painkiller that is heroin.
Society at large has been conditioned to have an unscientific, childish approach towards illegal drug use thanks to the media.

No drug is destructive. Alcohol included.
It's the users choice that brings the destruction. Not the drug.

Civilized people can enjoy a glass of wine of a Sunday evening. But they are still drug users and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Ismene]

as a former heroin addict i can tell you the drug transforms you in to a lying cheating thief with no genuine emotions or feelings for any one or thing except heroin itself.

There are countless heroin addicts who are prescribed their heroin - soldiers addicted to it during treatment for injuries who lead lives of great productivity and tremendous fitness.

The only reason you'd have to be a lying scumbag is to pay prohibited prices. If it was a tenner a kilo would you need to be scumbag?


the only reason i get so vexed about heroin addiction,is because i have known people who died from it,and who went to jail and lost everything because of heroin.

Make that PROHIBITED heroin. Heroin and prohibited heroin are two vastly different things.

 

[eireann]

i know where you are coming from cornish just last night i was disgusted watching a danny dyer movie called OUTLAWS,that spoke of 'junkies' in the same light as rapists and peado's and called for them to be murdered....even so conrnish the media are not responsible for addiction.

in my experience i have never met anyone who could just keep heroin use down to once or twice a week for a substantial amount of time.
but i have met plenty of people who could keep alcohol use down to once or twice a week for nearly their entire lives.

iseme heroin will never be cheap,due to increase use of the individual and the amount of land needed for the production of heroin

not to mention the extremely technical and time consuming harvesting process of heroin production

 

[Allein]

I'm not convinced about the suggestion that the street price of Heroin in anyway reflects the legal retail price. You only have to look at the price of some of the complex time release opiate painkillers to get an idea of what legalised Heroin would cost, I couldn't find a price for Diamorphine but assume it wouldn't be all that different to something like MST Continus...surely

 

[Cornishman]

Of course the media aren't to blame for addiction - I never said they were.. The only person to blame is the addict.

I know plenty of people who binge on alcohol every weekend aswell as a plethora of functioning ethanol addicts.

People need to stop blaming inanimate powders & potions for their problems (including yourself) and face up to their behaviour like an adult.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

It would cost pennies per day for the government to pay for even the largest heroin users habit. I watched a vice documentary yesterday where Pakistani users were paying just 80 cents for a gram of pure, and there was presumably several people making a profit on that. As for it being sold openly in shops and stuff, it's not going to happen. It's a pointless debate. The best we can really hope for is that addicts get their stuff for free on script.