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Opioids Morphine Sulfate pills have no rec value unless plugged or injected?

THC2LSD said:
Have you only tried Diconal but not morphine? Well then I've got a deal for you=D.J/K

Both are good, but Diconal is reputed to be up there with ketobemidone(supposedly the most addictive opioid ever made).
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Dipipanone (Diconal) and ketobemidone are not up and beyond morphine or the 3,6-diesters of morphine (morphines immediate family, which includes diacetylmorphine or morphine diacetate also known as "heroin", which is a morphine prodrug). There is a misconception that drugs like ketobemidone and Diconal are far more prone to abuse than other opioids (some are highly abusable, but not anymore than morphine/heroin or its closest relatives are). Prescriptions for these drugs are not rare because they are so highly addictive, but the BNF marks the substance as "less suitable for prescribing" along with other older compounds such as pethidine (Demerol) and pentazocine (Talwin) with unusual abuse patterns. Some of these drugs produce toxic metabolites or they have "unusual abuse patterns". Diconal, for example, was prepared in combination with cyclizine. This combo leads to a very strong "rush" if the drug is injected, however the tablets contain insoluble binders which led to many limb amputations and some fatalities (as with temazepam, which was taken from Schedule 4 to 3 but has Schedule I restrictions on it and at one time it too was marked as "less suitable for prescribing" by the BNF). During the late 1970s to early 1980s in the UK, many deaths were blamed on misuse of the Diconal preparation.

Similar prescribing guidelines apply to ketobemidone for similar reasons. Pentazocine (Talwin) has similar restrictions (but I'm sure you know that this drug is no where even close to being anywhere near the top). This isn't like the extensive benzo abuse liability study which clearly determined triazolam followed by temazepam were the most reinforcing benzodiazepines known based on self-administration and "liking" rates from various mammals (rhesus monkeys, baboons, rats, mice, etc) and even humans.

I have not ever found a study or research paper which says that any opiate/opioid is more habit-forming than morphine. Either they can "produce morphine-like dependence" or they are "less risk of abuse compared to morphine". There is a study on the Wiki heroin and morphine pages cite a study that claims this:

In controlled studies comparing the physiological and subjective effects of injected heroin and morphine in individuals formerly addicted to opiates, subjects showed no preference for one drug over the other. Equipotent, injected doses had comparable action courses, with no difference in subjects' self-rated feelings of euphoria, ambition, nervousness, relaxation, drowsiness, or sleepiness. Short-term addiction studies by the same researchers demonstrated that tolerance developed at a similar rate to both heroin and morphine. When compared to the opioids hydromorphone, fentanyl, oxycodone, and pethidine/meperidine, former addicts showed a strong preference for heroin and morphine, suggesting that heroin and morphine are particularly susceptible to abuse and addiction. Morphine and heroin were also much more likely to produce euphoria and other positive subjective effects when compared to these other opioids. The choice of heroin and morphine over other opioids by former-drug addicts may also be the result of the fact that heroin (also known as morphine diacetate, diamorphine or di-acetyl-morphine) is an ester salt of morphine and a morphine prodrug, essentially meaning that they are identical drugs in vivo. Heroin is converted to morphine before binding to the opioid receptors in the brain and spinal cord, where morphine then causes the subjective effects, which is what the addicted individuals are ultimately looking for.
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shreddedlettuce said:
^^ I agree with you Kokaino, but my question was specifically on how the two compare when taken orally.
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I have not tried Diconal, so I am just going to go off of what medical literature claims. Diconal was a mixture of dipipanone (a synthetic opioid) and cyclizine (an antihistamine). So Diconal likely produced less itching and other histamine-related effects along with less nausea and vomiting because cyclizine was used to treat nausea, vomiting and dizziness. As an antihistamine it also reduced the itching that is often accompanied by opioid use, so any histamine-related effects are reduced. Dipipanone is a synthetic opioid which likely produced typical synthetic opioid effects (they usually aren't always equal to the natural opiates or the semi-synthetics). It has very poor oral BA and those that abused it only used it via IV for its rush. I don't know what the high was like or if there was a high following the rush. Some drugs produce a very intense rush but they produce a poor or very short lived high (ie. hydromorphone).

Morphine is known to cause more side effects than a lot of other opioids (both good and bad effects). Itchiness, nausea and vomiting would probably be more profound with morphine, but so would the sedative and euphoric effects. Respiratory depression would also likely be more pronounced with morphine.

I'm just going by what is known about both drugs and with my extensive experience with morphine.
 
OK thanks.
What I noticed when I took the Diconal orally was the duration of the "body high/bliss feeling". (There was no rush obviously)
When I felt it working it seemed to stay at that peak level for a long time, +/- 6-7 hours, and only 1 tablet was needed.
 
In regards to ketobemidone this is what I found:

Many papers dealing with the clinical use of ketobemidone (Cliradon, Ciba) have called attention to the low potentiality for addiction of this drug. Studies based on large series of cases have shown that patients can give up its use without particular difficulty (Lewis, 1949; Cecchi, 1950; Blanke, 1950; Liessem, 1951; Peltola, 1952). Thus, in spite of fairly extensive use, comparatively few cases of addiction to ketobemidone have been brought to notice. Only in Germany, where the sale of the drug was unrestricted until 1953, has there been a significant number of addicts. There are reports on 20 cases in Germany either of addiction or of misuse (Linder and Vollmar, 1950; Bernmeier and Heine, 1950; Sattes, 1951; Kinzler, 1952; Mühlau, 1952; Cieslak, 1952; Hamburger, 1952; Geller, 1952; Carrière, 1953) and on 4 cases in other parts of the world (Bernstein, 1949; Del Bono, 1952; Peltola, 1952).
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I'd argue that addictiveness, which is subjective, with opiates/opioids kind of levels off at a certain point. I think that study up there used morphine and heroin addicts, who would naturally prefer their DOC.

With ketobemidone they found at the Lexington Narcotics "Hospital" that it was the most addictive opioid. The UN recommended it be banned worldwide, which they didn't even do with heroin. However in Scandinavia and Switzerland it was viewed as less addictive/euphoric than morphine in equipotent analgesic doses, and some studies back this up. This makes sense since it gets some of it's analgesic effects from antagonizing the NMDA. Nice, a NMDA antagonist and opioid in one:D! They're the holdouts with ketobemidone, well maybe Switzerland banned it later. Not so common in say Sweden but more common in Denmark.

There's a case of ketobemidone addiction in this Bulletin On Narcotics. http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1956-01-01_2_page006.html
Later, learning of the effects of ketobemidone, had a sample sent to him and began with intramuscular injections. Craving developed with extreme rapidity. Changed to intravenous injections and experienced a feeling of well-being and increased capacity for work. Found the new product more potent even than morphine.
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Withdrawal of the drug immediately brings on an acute state of anxiety and excitement, more acute than with morphine or methadone.
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Cyclizine has a decent rush for an antihistamine. But I heard that when combined with morphine or methadone it still wasn't as strong as dipropanone. It seems the bulk of the effects came from dipropanone, cyclizine was icing on the cake. From what I read Diconal was primarily restricted due to abuse.

One reason meperidine was restricted was abuse, but also because it and it's metabolite normeperidine are much more toxic than most other opioids and meperidine's not very effective orally.

With pentazocine abuse was one factor, but also due to an unacceptably high incidents of psychological problems such as hallucination or confusion. Now I wouldn't say a mixed agonist-antagonist full kappa agonist like pentazocine is as good as morphine, but IV abuse was ramped. I think someone said it was pretty good, the T's and blues. In some states in the US it's schedule II, the UN drug treaty and some countries have it in schedule III. The US was considering moving it to III or II, but left it at schedule IV due to Talwin NX.
 
Thanks for all the help, I learned a lot from this forum especially from you tricomb. I went thru all my pills a littler early then the refill an couldn't go 45 min without having explosive sh!ts, but on the bright side my tolerance went down. Just got my refill earlier tonight too bad they cut my oxys from 10mg to 5mg willl have to complain about that in a week or so. Whats the best thing to tell the doctor? Just say its not killing the pain like before?

Anyway, I dont have what is needed for micron filtering so I'm wondering if I just let the pills disolve in water for over 12 hours can I just drink it to beat the time release? I did this about 5 days ago, but only with 3 pills (90mg) and felt it harder but my tolerance was definably higher at the time. All the gel was floating at the top, is it necessary to get the gel out the water before drinking? Will this even work or was it just the oxys I felt? It seems to me like this would beat the time release because it separates the morphine from the gel, or is some of the morphine still being absorbed by the gel while its sitting in the water? I just drank it all including the gel.

Does this kill the time release? because I see the gel has separated or will it still absorb the morphine in my body when I drink it or while its in the water? Sorry for the long post (took 80mg of oxy feelin real good) but I would really appreciate the advice. Is straining the gel necessary? Will wait for a response, I wasted too many pills by snorting, but I plan to let atleast 240mg dissolve completely if I find this really does beat the time release. Thanks again to all users who replied, any advice is appreciated.
 
Dont try to get high on your meds everyday. That's just going to lead you down a bad path. Try and get what you can out of taking them as prescribed. If that's not working then I would suggest talking to your Dr.
 
i take MS Contin (Morphine Sulphate) on numerous occasions, and taking it ORALLY IS NOT A WASTE, i still get the magical glow and heavy opiate buzz similiar to heroin, but it takes me personally aorund 500mg to feel awesome. you cant even shoot this shit or sniff it without the pill waxing up and turning into goo when trying to IV, it turns into snot in ur nose, even when i chew it my teeth get stuck together from the sticky gel. Oral morphine IMO is one of the best opiate highs, im a tolerant person, and can only enjoy methadone, morphine, heroin, buprenorphine. oxy i can take 300mg and no feel dic shit, lortabs i can eat 20 and get a 15min buzz and then have stomach pains..morphine is pretty strong orally regardless if ur liver only metabolizez 30%, it is STRONG
 
Ive gotten oral morphine once as a kid for a bad case of bronchitis and had a little left over and damn you're not lying. One of the best highs I ever had. Dissolving these morphine ers in water wouldn't be the same tho would it? Does anyone have experience doing this? I'm wondering how much I should dissolve. Im not sure of its effecticeness because my tollerance was so high before.
 
i have crushed morphine and mixed it with hot water and drank it, yes it hits you a bit faster, its worth it :)
 
phatass said:
well between getting to take the same m dosage of ach, the oxy wil be over 3 imes stronger
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What? Can you clarify what you are saying here? What's 3 times stronger than what?

If you are implying that oxycodone is somehow 3x more potent than morphine then boy you got all your stuff mixed up. Oxycodone is more active orally than morphine, but when the BA of both drugs are equal (ie. in the case of IV both are 100% ) morphine is 2x more potent than oxycodone.
 
I have been plugging all my morphine IR. Otherwise I would have no use for them especially with my tolerance. I'm on the 50mcg Fent for Chonic pain, and just plugged 90ml of the IR Moro...nice soft rush, last a few hours sure no big rush but I do fell that soft creep that H does. just makes me nice and mellow. I could have oxys but didn't want to get in the cycle of higher tolerance. Since I wear a Fentanyl patch for chonic back pain. I don't play with this patch.....no chewing, I just want pain relief, but with my breakthrough I like to use them to catch a Lil buzz. I already have asked my Doctor 3 times for breakthrough pain pills. So I guess when I see her I hope she don't flip cuz I'm going tell her I need to be back on my hydromorphine 3 or 4 they get weird when you ask for something specific.
 
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Morphine is good orally, you just have to take more(for me like150 mg). When I didn't have a tolerance I remember taking 3 30's(the purple ones) and I actually got a nod. BUT if you want to not take as much and get a good buzz the only way to get around it is plugging or shooting. I know you said your not confortable with plugging but it honestly works so much better. I'm not going to reccomend shooting because if you don't already do it you really shouldn't start...
 
Absolutely not, sure i'm one of the lucky ones who gets a great high from 60mg + IR of morphine, but using my 600mg tagamet with 130mg Kadians (with the beads crushed to make it IR and put back in the gelcap) and holy hell, it was wonderful and long lasting too, a good 10 hours instead of 6.
 
I have some NAPP Morphine Sulphate tabs (10 mg) called Sevredol. Does anyone know the best ways of consuming these for non-pain relieving intentions? I'm not interested in IV or plugging, but wonder if there are any other options for getting the most out of these pills. I believe they are extended release.
 
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No, you just need to take more orally than rectally or intravenously. This is like saying heroin has no recreational value unless shot, snorted plugged or smoked. Most certainly not true, have a person with a low tolerance orally consume a couple points of good H and see how they feel, they will be very high. Same with Oxymorphone, bioavailability does not determine recreational value, it shows the % of the drug that is active when consumed via different routes.
 
So, in this case, is there any benefit in trying to overcome the extended release aspect by crushing said pills, or is it just the same as when swallowing them whole?
 
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