The GHB/GBL Addiction & Withdrawal Thread v.2

[flabakani]

The thing is, I drank the bottles of wine at 10pm, just when the symptoms kicked in. Then my intoxication made me pass out, I am unsure if I took beta-alanine on the evening before going into bed. Apparently I did eat something because the kitchen was a mess). Anyway, PLEASE try this, folks. Just remember to take large quantities of the beta-alanine.

The withdrawal is caused by GABA-b downregulation and glutamate exitotoxicity. What I am saying is: beta-alanine takes care of those both. Check the edits on the previous post and you see why.

 

[Treacle]

I'll research the stuff, but I'm just skeptical about its effectiveness for extreme withdrawals. It can't be more effective than phenibut and antipsychotics, can it? I've needed to floor myself on such drugs, when I've had really bad ones. Let us know how it works out. I've just read your edits - caffeine causes anxiety in a lot of people, such as myself. It releases nor-adrenaline and is obviously a stimulant. That's never good in withdrawal. If you've gone 9 hours, you're fine. The first 12 hours are the worst. If you get an average sleep tonight, then you're sorted. Well done on getting off.

 

[flabakani]

This is my 9th or 10th detox time. Ive done it two times now with B-AL.
By the way, 4-aminobutyrate Transaminase also acts on beta-alanine...
I'll keep you posted. I opened a bottle of wine, but I'm already feeling kind of sleepy. The effect of the first glass of the wine is so-so: heavy swetting and heartburn. Nothing that sodium bicarbonate wasn't able to fix

Anyway - I cannot see any reason why this wouldn't work for really bad WDs.

What goes for the caffeine, I think the main stimulant action of caffeine comes because it messes up the xanthine system. This is completely off-topic, but if you do nicotine, you actually extend the caffeine half-life. That's the reason why some smokers who drink coffee suffer from insomnia even from one cup drank at the morning

EDIT: I went to bed around 2:30am. Woke up at 5:30am because tachycardia. Took some beta-blocker. I find this completely useless. Should get the clonidine but I think I can manage this.. Atm 25hours gone since the last dose and I'm just feeling bit sad.. I have taken three times the b-alanine today. And tried the chamomile tea. It's great for the tachycardia!

 

[flabakani]

Btw: Pregabalin and gabapentin increase neuronal GABA levels by producing a dose-dependent increase in glutamic acid decarboxylase activity.
(L)-Aspartic acid undergoes decarboxylation to beta-Alanine by Glutamate decarboxylase.
Do you now see the link here? Beta-alanine is the way to go.

Soon it's been 45 hours since the last dose. I have severe insomnia, had to drink a bottle of wine to get a decent 6 hour sleep and atm I feel again very dandy except the mild hangover and tachycardia (which is actually the cause for the insomnia... just keep listening and feeling the heartbeat.. annoying)

Just remember to supplement!
Beta-alanine chelates zinc and copper lowering levels of both.
It also depletes your brain of Taurine and this causes loss of magnesium also.

Ony thing that bothers me is that in general, receptor up/down-regulation at brain level (humans) can vary from seconds to weeks, growing new axons between neurons more than 4 weeks and reaching the final balance can sometimes take as long as 6 months.

How long does it take for the gabab to upregulate and the glutamate receptors to downregulate?

Anyway, I hope you now believe beta-alanine can be used for the WD very efficiently. Other people have claimed correctly in other forums "Beta-Alanine binds to both the Glycine and GABA receptors in the brain. By doing so, it can block GABA uptake, and decrease Glutamatergic excitation. Glutamate is the most important excitatory transmitter in the brain and the NMDA receptor is a receptor for Glutamate. As the Glutamate site is often flooded, the diffusion of Beta-Alanine in the brain will augment the activation of the NMDA receptor increasing synaptic activity [.. this causes the parasthesia (tingling feeling) as well]".

 

[flabakani]

In about 4½ hours it's been 3 days (72 hours) since the last dose. I had quite good sleep w/out any drugs or booze. Woke up twice, took 2bout 2.5g of beta-alanine each time and went back to sleep. Everything's smooth. BP has been normalized, at the moment I feel I do not need any beta-blockers (or the clonidine). Only some sweating from my feet and fingers. Mood is great.

 

[dylesid]

Hello,

Friend of mine, from small country in Europe (forgive him his bad english), asking me about help. This is his letter:

Quote:
"I have been taking GBL since year 2007. Now it doesn't meter how often. In general long marathons 24/7 and some breakers in between. This December, I mean last December I tried to finish it and stop it in different way than usual cold turkey. So I bought from the "street" 50 x 2mg triangle Indian Xanax pills, and 40 x 1mg Etizolam to be prepare to quit GBL in benzo way. In reality I didn't prepare myself theoretically. So before (september, october) I tried some other benzos, just curiosity, bromazepam, other xanax's, temazepam, lorazepam, diazepam, so probably I had some tolerance builded. I had no withdrawalsyndromes probably because I just switched automatically on GBL (GABA receptors) and that is why I didn't noticed those first syndromes like photophobia, cramps and so on.

Anyway on 21th of December 2012 I stopped GBL and started to mix alcohol 4-8 strong 7.8% lagers every day with Xanax and etizolam in amounts above. There was no plan, no schedule. I just stupidly didn't prepare myself for what I planed to do. I finished those mixes at midnight 28/29th of December. So around 9 days of sleep attempting, mood elevating, doing stupid things. Since 29th of December I am on cold turkey, experiencing muscle twitching, cramps, cold and hot waves, cold sweat, hot sweat, feeling that your heart try very hard to work, tension, unusual heart beat 69 bpm or 72 while normally I have 85 bpm. ringing or pulsating in ears or one ear., blurred vision, voices, photophobia. Almost no sleep or short naps with horror dreams. Saturday I took 20 mg of Propranolol (beta blocker) around 10am, Sunday 10 mg of Propranolol the same time, then Monday 20mg of Propranolol around 10 am, and then 1st of January 10mg of Propranolol around 1am because symptoms above like epinephrine/adrenaline release, sweating and so on were unbearable, something like peak with blackness swirling, dancing, call it seizure maybe. Last night I didn't sleep at all or performed some kind of series of naps not even sure am I sleeping or imagining sleeping. Today I almost did not eat, just drank some soya supplement cocktail. My heart is making experimental beating, slow fast, I must lay down to avoid 150 bpm. To avoid this situation I took 20 mg of Propranolol 3 hours minutes ago and waiting. But still my chest is burning, muscle twitches, high tension...

Now the question is, apart of the stupidity of what have I done, what to do now? I have got nothing apart of betablockers, Melissa, valerian root. I might have some GBL tomorrow on Thursday. But it would be a circle another GABA switch, back to the same rails...beside my GABA is really fu**ed up."

Then he sent me some details:

Quote:
"I thought about Perazine I have it. It's Antipsychotic drug in schizophrenia treatment with sleeping properties. But it might lowers the seizure threshold. So not that way...

Maybe SSRE Mirtazapine. To help sleep. But it might create long lasting horror dreams or just do something unpredictable.

Please help. Is it just a beginning of my nightmares, a culmination, a peak? How to escape... ((( what to do.

PS. Sorry for the chaos above and poor English...

Edit:

I have just just read longecity.org/forum/topic/53981-protracted-benzo-withdrawal-and-gotu-kola-piracetam-bacopa/ and I have got Gotu Cola capsules but I am afraid to try. I have also discovered that I must avoid GABA antagonists so valerian root would be a bad choice.

Edit 2

According this, Gotu cola should be avoided as well. All GABA receptor antagonists should be avoided. I should buy l-theanine, bacopa munnieri, AFOBAZOL, lithium orate...
"

After 2 days another letter:

Quote:
"I was in ER last night, the withdrawal syndromes were unbearable. They gave me 10 mg Diazepam and sent home and told me to come back at the morning to see psychiatrist.

So I came back this morning and they told me that a hospital cannot prescribe me any medications and sent me to a GP who probably cannot prescribe me Diazepam as well and some kind of drug and alcohol services (referral letter) to give me diazepam. The problem is I know this service, and they have some doctor who can prescribe Diazepam, but you must be on the long list of waiting people...
And I needs help ASAP. I understood that what I did is ridiculous, but NHS system is even more surreal...
I bought than diazepam on a well known deep hidden internet website and I wait for it now "

The same day letter from him:

Quote:
"Well, that was a Welsh medical service. They really know little or nothing about GBL abuse. I was a witness a wile ago when they described GBL as a glue and they were printed out every information from the internet. But this doesn't meter now.

I definitely increased the dose between 2007-2012. To feel normal I would take 1-1.5ml of GBL in 2007 and 2-2.3ml in 2012. For sleep 2-2.5ml in 2007 and 3 ml in 2012. But mine GABA system is in so bad shape, I believe, that I remember those rare, but still, times when I had to take 5-8ml GBL (on one time) PLUS 12ml homemade GHB to induce "normal" sleep every 3 hours. But this is another sad story.

This morning I just could not manage all those Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Symptoms (or as it might be: GABA A and GABA B dysregulation and glutamatergic syndrome) so I tried 25 mg of Baclofen pills (which came today from India and were primary mine first attempt to recover from GBL Withdrawal Symptoms, but they were somewhere between the UK and India from the beginning of the December) but they did no work so I tried GBL again 3 ml and this helped indeed. I slept deep sleep for about 3 hours (a reminder: since last Saturday I slept in total 7 hours REM only sleep) and I have no more all those BWS I had before. I know this is a bad decision but I just could not cope with all hallucinations and sweating I had this terrible information about diazepam from the psychiatrists. I said to myself, if this is what I need to do, I will do it, if I cannot get any fast help from the NHS, I need to get diazepam from the black market, but before I need to do something with all those BWS I have. Baclofen might be just bad that is all (I do not trust Indian pills, but that day it was the only way to get it). But I know it could help because of this: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=91760 and originally by this http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172924 and some NHS report (or some GBL Withdrawal syndrome clinic I do not remember well) which I cannot find but it looked very similar in graphic design to your PDF http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_addiction2.pdf.

So what I tried to do was (from the beginning) to get out from the GBL WS with Xanax (bad Idea, and not such a dosages but lower dosages means less Xanax taken per day) and then Baclofen and then some supplements. What did not know was how severe might be Benzodiazepines WS, especially short acting benzos like Xanax. Now I messed up (because I need to work it out alone and I do it in a panic) so I need to wait for diazepam, and some Baclofen from Spain (no need for prescription, surprisingly), Bromazepam (just in case) and some supplements like Bacopa monnieri and so on (Taurine following your advice but also need to have more information because of this http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...ola-piracetam-bacopa/page__st__60#entry528872 taurine is GABA antagonist, I am confused). I have found very interesting posts on http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...l-and-gotu-kola-piracetam-bacopa/#entry498458 (as I said before). But mine case is more difficult because it includes dysregulated GABA A and dysregulated GABA B and glutamatergic syndrome... "

OK, an finally after 2 more days he send me this letter:

Quote:
"My right hand is numb for about 1.5 week (hospital appointment) tomorrow, I hope it is not permanent, so i write just left hand and 2 fingers (I realize how surrealistic it all sounds).

Everything is even more complex than it was on the beginning. I am buck to GBL addiction 24/7 2.5 ml every 3h. But I have strong medical help now, not in front of medical care (you just cannot count on it), but simple medicines have 45 strips of Baclofen 25 mg which is 450 pills of 25 mg Baclofen, 4 strips ofLYRICA 75 mg (56 pills), 25 pills of 10 mg Diazepam and 20 polls of 2m Clonazepaman, Betablocker Propranalol, and all sorts of supplements after withdrawal syndromes:

I must avoid GABA antagonists, so i hope i did not include examples of these in the rest of my pharma-help:

- Beta Alanine (surprisingly it completely removes almost all GBL withdrawal syndromes
- l-theanine
- bacopa munnieri
- lithium orate
- taurine
- vit B12 and B6
- Zinc
- Magnesium Malate
- Meletonin
- Garlic extract

(any others supplements might help?)


I will try also to get from somewhere (any good, trusted source???):
-Afobazole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afobazole

So any help in sort it out and segregate what first, second, next, avoid, would be really help because my condition is not very good, euphemistically speaking...

Maybe some Baclofen day by day dosage (withdrawal syndromes are bad after to long Baclo as well…"

Regards,
Kapelusznik

 

[knock]

dylesid, I closed the thread you opened because it was a duplicate of your post here. It is also a duplicate of a post you made to drugs-forum, and another forum.

We don't pretend to be posting on other people's behalf, here. It makes the post difficult to read.

Also, the post is more likely to get a useful reply if it is concise. Please could you summarise your questions?

Thanks!

 

[Treacle]

Fucking hell. He's had a worse time than me with it. It sounds like he got over the G withdrawals (GABA-b receptors can take a week or more to start getting back to normal, if you've REALLY hammered it), and ended up with GABA-a withdrawals (which is weeks or more to normalise). A decent dose of benzos and baclofen would sort him out, for a bit, even if he only did that once every couple of days. He'll be fine, in the next few days, I'd say. His GABA-b receptors should be nearly back up, so he's simply in benzo withdrawal (it sounds horrific, I'm not playing it down). There's nothing wrong with breaking the WDs up with something longer acting, just to get some sleep and food in you. Poor guy. Wish I could speak to him directly.

The ear stuff is particularly interesting. I used to get at least one ear infection a year, before I first took G, and now, after all the weird pressure and ear pain (during use and withdrawals), I no longer get them. Another member, who is no longer with us, was fitted with hearing aids, because of deafness he developed - due to G.

It's crazy, seductive and often, all-consuming. Moderation isn't the word, with this stuff. Treat it like crack.

 

[Treacle]

Btw: Pregabalin and gabapentin increase neuronal GABA levels by producing a dose-dependent increase in glutamic acid decarboxylase activity.
(L)-Aspartic acid undergoes decarboxylation to beta-Alanine by Glutamate decarboxylase.
Do you now see the link here? Beta-alanine is the way to go.

Soon it's been 45 hours since the last dose. I have severe insomnia, had to drink a bottle of wine to get a decent 6 hour sleep and atm I feel again very dandy except the mild hangover and tachycardia (which is actually the cause for the insomnia... just keep listening and feeling the heartbeat.. annoying)

Just remember to supplement!
Beta-alanine chelates zinc and copper lowering levels of both.
It also depletes your brain of Taurine and this causes loss of magnesium also.

Ony thing that bothers me is that in general, receptor up/down-regulation at brain level (humans) can vary from seconds to weeks, growing new axons between neurons more than 4 weeks and reaching the final balance can sometimes take as long as 6 months.

How long does it take for the gabab to upregulate and the glutamate receptors to downregulate?

Anyway, I hope you now believe beta-alanine can be used for the WD very efficiently. Other people have claimed correctly in other forums "Beta-Alanine binds to both the Glycine and GABA receptors in the brain. By doing so, it can block GABA uptake, and decrease Glutamatergic excitation. Glutamate is the most important excitatory transmitter in the brain and the NMDA receptor is a receptor for Glutamate. As the Glutamate site is often flooded, the diffusion of Beta-Alanine in the brain will augment the activation of the NMDA receptor increasing synaptic activity [.. this causes the parasthesia (tingling feeling) as well]".

This stuff sounds too good to be true. What you're saying surely means this stuff can be used for anxiety, just as pregabalin is. Why is it not well-known, or is it just not?

 

[m00t]

Found myself with a couple days off and stupidly wound up in a cycle of dosing 24/7 for two days straight . Have to go to work tomorrow and wondering if I can expect any nasty symptoms? I have a klonopin and phenibut on hand.. It's been four hours since my last cap and I plan to give it a good break.

Would it be safe to take the kpin tonight if I run into insomnia? I started reading horror stories about withdrawals here a couple hours ago.. Didn't really know ghb withdrawals where a thing. Thought tons of bodybuilders used it back in the day without repercussions. I have no real history of use with G besides these two days, only done a couple caps before that.

 

[Shambles]

If it's only been a couple days of 24/7 you shouldn't have any problems whatsoever. Perhaps a bit of insomnia and some mild rebound anxiety but nothing serious. You almost certainly won't notice a thing. Benzos don't actually make much difference to G w/d anyway as far as I can tell (different part of the GABA system I do believe although Treacle is yer man for those kinda details). Oddly enough, booze works better (but not recommended - especially at work ). Phenibut can be used for w/d but has an incredibly vicious w/d all of its own so I'd recommend against that. One or two days use max if you ever do need to use it. But after just a couple days 24/7 dosing of G you'll be fine. It generally takes weeks - if not months - of 24/7 to develop an actual dependence and w/d symptoms.

Incidentally, my toptip to avoid G w/d even with 24/7 dosing is to never ever use KO doses. I can't promise it will avoid w/d for others but it has always been the case for me. I can dose 24/7 for months at a stretch and get essentially no w/d symptoms beyond a bit of insomnia and rebound anxiety for a few days upon stopping. If I take KO doses - whether they be intentional or not - I get w/d symptoms same as anybody else.

But you really have nothing to worry about after so brief a period of heavy use. Obviously it's not wise to overuse G even if you can avoid w/d symptoms, but it's really KO dosing that causes the serious problems (imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc). I suspect this would also explain why bodybuilders avoided w/d symptoms - they would not be taking KO doses cos they presumably want to make use of the energy to work out so would be using lighter, more stimulating doses rather than heavy, sedating ones.

 

[m00t]

Thanks for the quick and informative response. I can see how things can get nasty fast with this drug, glad I'm not in for any withdrawals really. I'll treat it with more respect next time around.

Also if I only used it for KO dosages two days a week do you think I'd run into problems? I'm an insomniac normally so having a guaranteed sleep mechanism is handy.

Also what do you consider a safe non KO dose to take? I need to start measuring the G out properly and Consistently.

 

[Shambles]

One other thing, 'caps' is really not a very reliable way of measuring G. I presume you mean GHB? I've only ever heard of that being measured in caps. Presumably cos a capful of GBL would be a surefire OD. It's tricky with GHB unless you've either made it yourself or acquired it from somebody who has so you know the concentration. If at all possible it's well worth knowing the concentration you have so you can judge doses appropriately. GHB concentration can vary wildly and a cap from one batch could do nothing whilst a cap from the next batch could have you spazzing around on the floor like a fish outta water. I know it's not always possible, but it's well worth trying to find out what concentration you have each time and measuring doses properly with oral syringe or similar.

On the offchance you meant GBL, it clearly can't be actual capfuls you mean unless it's incredibly watered down. GBL absolutely has to be measured precisely with syringe, pippette or similar.

That sounds a bit lecturey doesn't it? Don't mind me, am knackered and off to bed. I'm sure you know what you're doing but do please bear in mind concentrations and precise measurements when working with GHB or GBL. It really can be the difference between life and death. Or at the very least the difference between having fun and passing out :D

 

[m00t]

I'm told it's ghb. You're right I do need to be more accurate about my dosing if I want to continue to use it.

 

[m00t]

One more question. It's been about seven hours since my last dose, would it be safe to take 1mg Klonopin tonight?

 

[DS_]

I fancy getting addicted to GBl again. I say this with complete onestly as I'm 100% aware that it'll get addicted once again and have go at my 25th+ physical withdrawal.

 

[Transform]

Don't you worry about the damage those withdrawals are doing to you?

GHB is out and gone within 5 hours so other drugs after that won't interact.

 

[zeeahh]

Edit:Again, no asking how to buy or make drugs regardless of legality. We don't want to draw that kind of attention to our site. Thanks.

 

[Ravensight]

I'd like to know how pregabalin helps with G withdraws? How do you take it and for how long to alleviate the symptoms? Does it do anything at all?

 

[TheSelfImage]

Thank you for all of the above information. A friend of mine had been struggling with bad GHB withdrawals and Beta Alanine saved the day.