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Thread: Bath salts got me worried - how to tell the difference between meth and salts..

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    Bath salts got me worried - how to tell the difference between meth and salts.. 
    #1
    Ive been hearing a lot of talk about bath salts in the meth smokeing community here in Toronto. someone told me the other day about a huge ;bath salt bust; and im sick of hearing about these crazy bath salts making me second guess my dope! is there any huge indicator that you have been sold bath salts instead of the real thing ... is there a different high does it feel the same... ive heard a lot of fucked up stories about bath salts i dont want to be in the next one!
     

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    #2
    you could find someone you trust to grab off, but if that isn't a possibility for you, and I understand, then you could start grabbing more at a time when you know it's legit. And yes imo there is a difference between salts and ice, which is: the effect, even if you can't distinguish through observation, upon consumption of this substance in question you should immediately know if you have the good stuff or not, this probably means starting off low each time you have a new bag, and maybe it means establishing some better connections. IMO the bath salts thing is totally moral panic, people, and the media eat this shit up, it's like those new rush lyrics, 'blind men in the market place, buying what they're sold' think for yourself mann, I think this is all hype, but both are nasty drugs, maybe look into going to some meetings, maybe you're tired of the tweaker life, it gets old, if you have concerns like this. Bath salts could be anything, if it's 2-FA or something likje that then you might have a harder time telling as this apparently is stronger then meth, but it would still be different it wouldnt feel the way meth does, you probably know that real meth is going to preform almost the same way each time, you should have an idea what your looking for, if you get bunk shit you should know, also by talking to reputable people who u can trust and who arent just feesding u shit, you could get a better idea of what to avoid at the time. If you get meth you would probably know, if you did not get meth then you should also know, you need to be self aware. but i dono, maybe take a bit of time off, or i dont know, the medical system in ontario is great, as long as you realize you want to stop, there are resources out there to help you do so, good luck. I hope u don't encounter those salts. and if you do i hope you are prudent and realize it before using much.
     

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    #3
    shorter high, more like smoking crack, doesn't look like shards just fine white powder or clumpy and tanish looking, trust me you will know after taking one hit.
     

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by R(x)AGE View Post
    you could find someone you trust to grab off, but if that isn't a possibility for you, and I understand, then you could start grabbing more at a time when you know it's legit. And yes imo there is a difference between salts and ice, which is: the effect, even if you can't distinguish through observation, upon consumption of this substance in question you should immediately know if you have the good stuff or not, this probably means starting off low each time you have a new bag, and maybe it means establishing some better connections. IMO the bath salts thing is totally moral panic, people, and the media eat this shit up, it's like those new rush lyrics, 'blind men in the market place, buying what they're sold' think for yourself mann, I think this is all hype, but both are nasty drugs, maybe look into going to some meetings, maybe you're tired of the tweaker life, it gets old, if you have concerns like this. Bath salts could be anything, if it's 2-FA or something likje that then you might have a harder time telling as this apparently is stronger then meth, but it would still be different it wouldnt feel the way meth does, you probably know that real meth is going to preform almost the same way each time, you should have an idea what your looking for, if you get bunk shit you should know, also by talking to reputable people who u can trust and who arent just feesding u shit, you could get a better idea of what to avoid at the time. If you get meth you would probably know, if you did not get meth then you should also know, you need to be self aware. but i dono, maybe take a bit of time off, or i dont know, the medical system in ontario is great, as long as you realize you want to stop, there are resources out there to help you do so, good luck. I hope u don't encounter those salts. and if you do i hope you are prudent and realize it before using much.

    Thanks for the reply. The reason i say this is sometimes when i do pick up it will be that consistant you are talking about, and then others itll be more of a sketchy type paranoid delusional so im like wtf - but then agian it cud of been multiple nights up (I myself cant go past 3) but these bath salts seem crazy and i heard they make you trip that way so i think people might be useing it as cut or something ....... WHO knows. and regards to the quitting - thanks for careing , and i know some people wont agree with me , but i do not withdrawl from meth i stop when i want to stop it sort of like when im in the binge ya get high as u can more more , as soon as i sleep and wake up i dont crave it.. and if i do quote , unquote crave .. its like wanting a reeses peanut butter cup thats sitting on the table sure itd be nice to eat it but you can control yourself.. lol. one of my friends say my ADHD plays a factor in me not craveing it and getting addicted to where i cant control myself.. but who knows. they do say its a mental addiction
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter phactor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R(x)AGE View Post
    if it's 2-FA or something likje that then you might have a harder time telling as this apparently is stronger then meth, .
    I have not taken 2-FA but from what I have heard and read about it the statement made is not correct.
     

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phactor View Post
    I have not taken 2-FA but from what I have heard and read about it the statement made is not correct.
    Ok well share what you know!! i really want as much info on these salts and how to spot them quick , because i do slam sometimes (I KNOW BAD) but im thinkin if i accidently slam freakin bath salts would it not like kill me lol
     

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    #7
    Bluelighter littlepenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelly900 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. The reason i say this is sometimes when i do pick up it will be that consistant you are talking about, and then others itll be more of a sketchy type paranoid delusional so im like wtf - but then agian it cud of been multiple nights up (I myself cant go past 3) but these bath salts seem crazy and i heard they make you trip that way so i think people might be useing it as cut or something ....... WHO knows. and regards to the quitting - thanks for careing , and i know some people wont agree with me , but i do not withdrawl from meth i stop when i want to stop it sort of like when im in the binge ya get high as u can more more , as soon as i sleep and wake up i dont crave it.. and if i do quote , unquote crave .. its like wanting a reeses peanut butter cup thats sitting on the table sure itd be nice to eat it but you can control yourself.. lol. one of my friends say my ADHD plays a factor in me not craveing it and getting addicted to where i cant control myself.. but who knows. they do say its a mental addiction
    "they" say it's a mental addiction???
    who the eff are "they?"



    In a study, rats that were given methamphetamine had a 2,700% increase in release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens, the region in the middle of the brain that acts as the "reward center." Similarly, rats had a 170% increase in dopamine in response to heroin, a reaction that could be inhibited completely by a higher dose of the drug. Alcohol only produced a 140% increase in dopamine.

    -Dr. Stephen Dewey of Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton, New York, and colleagues


    "It is also no surprise that use of the drug produces dependence and addiction. Methamphetamine is among the most addictive substances ever known to humankind."

    Here is an excellent read on methamphetamine facts; addiction, how it effects the brain in easy to understand terms, and effects on the body:
    NSFW:
    The National Methamphetamine
    Drug Conference

    Treatment: Effects On the Brain and Body

    Alan I. Leshner, Ph. D., Director
    National Institute On Drug Abuse

    The fundamental problem in dealing with any drug is to understand the target. The advances in science over the last 20 years have revolutionized our basic understanding of the nature of drug abuse and the nature of addiction. Research has taught us a tremendous amount, particularly about methamphetamine as an unusual stimulant with some unique effects. In order to understand what drugs are doing and why a drug is a problem, one must understand why people use drugs.

    Most who talk about drug use have a tendency to discuss a wide variety of societal and risk factors for drug abuse and addiction. In fact, there are 72 risk factors for drug abuse and addiction, the same risk factors as for anything else bad that can happen: Poverty, racism, social dysfunction, weak families, poor peer groups. However, those risk factors only influence the possibility an individual might or might not use drugs. When we look at the individual case and ask why someone is using a drug, we need to understand he is using the drug simply because he wants to feel good, and this "feel good" effect has to do with how the drug affects the brain. My presentation outlines this phenomenon.

    People take drugs because they like what it does to their brains; drugs modify mood, perception, and emotional state. To better understand this effect, we have to understand some basic neuroscience about how the brain works. First, the brain is organized into lobes, which are specific areas responsible for specialized functions like cognitive and sensory processes and motor coordination. The brain is also organized into far more complex units called circuits that involve direct connections among the billions of nerve cells that various drugs of abuse affect. Next, we must focus on the limbic reward system from the VTA (ventral tegmental area) to the nucleus accumbens. This little circuit is probably the essence of addiction. Every abusable substance—alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, nicotine, heroin—all have an effect on that system, and substances cause a change in the nucleus accumbens and cause the secretion of a chemical substance named dopamine.


    Upon examining the brain, the connection between individual nerve cells and the neurons is important. The action of drugs occurs at a connection between two neurons called the synapse; what happens in this connection is the essence of what drugs do to the brain. An electrical signal comes from the axon to the first neuron and causes the release of a chemical substance called the neurotransmitter into the synapse. The neurotransmitter dopamine then moves to the next neuron where it is taken up by a receptor, or it is brought back by the dopamine reuptake transporter. This is very important because the transporter causes these chemical substances to be brought back into the brain.

    Drugs of abuse modify the way in which those chemical substances are released into the space synapse and modify the activity of the receptors on one end or the other. Methamphetamine causes a tremendous release of dopamine into the synapse and causes displacement in little sacs of the dopamine transmitters. For the lay person, Time Magazine published an excellent description of what drugs do to the brain, and I commend the article for your reading.


    Dr. Alan Leshner, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), speaks about the dangerous effects of methamphetamine on the brain and body.
    Various drugs of abuse modify dopamine neurotransmission. Methamphetamine produces a "spike" (an increase) in dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. Drug abusers love that spike; the more drug they take, the bigger the spike, and so the purpose of taking methamphetamine is, literally, to produce that spike. Studies at Brookhaven National Laboratories show the duration and intensity of the dopamine spike is directly related to the intensity of the high. This is a very important finding because it shows methamphetamine is different from other stimulants. Though stimulants might all produce a spike, methamphetamine has a gradual falloff in dopamine while cocaine has a more rapid falloff. Drug users binge crack cocaine to keep pushing their dopamine levels up, whereas the methamphetamine addict does not have to binge as much to keep a high.

    Use is not just a chemical event. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter substance involving all pleasurable experiences and has a very widespread effect, even though its activity is in a relatively limited circuit in the brain. Some of the effects on the brain and on the behavior produced by acute methamphetamine use include: Increase in tension, decrease in fatigue, decrease in appetite, euphoria and rush, obvious increase in heart rate, and very complicated effects on motor functions. Methamphetamine is one of the most powerful acute stimulants available.

    Methamphetamine use can not only modify behavior in an acute state, but, after taking it for a long time, the drug literally changes the brain in fundamental and long-lasting ways. This change in the brain is the problem with methamphetamine addiction—not physical dependence or the withdrawal symptoms one acquires after one stops taking a drug—and it is a very dramatic and more long-lasting change. We know a tremendous amount about how chronic methamphetamine use affects the secretion of various neurotransmitter substances, particularly dopamine and serotonin.

    In the March issue of Behavioral Brain Research, William Melega and Mike Phelps from UCLA discuss a study performed on rhesus monkeys about amphetamine effects on the brain. PET (positron emission tomography) scans demonstrate that pre-amphetamine control is a measure of the ability to produce dopamine, and FDOPA dopamine is an indication of the ability to produce the chemical dopamine. Before a monkey was injected with amphetamine, there was an effective ability to produce dopamine in the area of the nucleus accumbens. The monkey then got two shots of amphetamine a day for 10 days. Four weeks after the injections had stopped, there was a tremendous decrease in the ability to produce dopamine. This problem persisted six months later. At one year, the brain was 90% functional, and, by two years later, the brain returned to normal dopamine production.

    Prolonged use of amphetamine or heavy use of amphetamines produces a very dramatic change in the brain's ability to manufacture a chemical substance essential for the normal experience of pleasure and for normal psychological functioning. Chronic use has decreased the ability to produce that substance, and this effect may persist for up to a year after the individual has stopped taking the drug. We believe those changes in dopamine and the damage produced to dopamine and serotonin neurons are responsible for the much more dramatic chronic effects of methamphetamine use than the acute effects. Anyone who treats methamphetamine-addicted individuals or heavy users knows there are a wide array of behavior changes that are very dramatic, very persistent and very resistant to any kind of rational discourse. These behaviors are a direct result of what the drug is doing to the brain.


    Source: C. Edgar Cook, NIDA Research Monograph 115: 6-23, 1991
    It is also no surprise that use of the drug produces dependence and addiction. Methamphetamine is among the most addictive substances ever known to humankind. It is also dangerous because it can cause stroke or create methamphetamine psychosis, a mental disorder that may be pure paranoid psychosis or may mimic schizophrenia. It is difficult to define, but it is important for the lay person to understand these people act in a bizarre way, and they act this way because their brains are altered. The truth is that prolonged use of methamphetamine modifies the brain's systematic waves. This is a dangerous consequence, and the public must be educated about it.

    What is particularly frightening about methamphetamine, more so than crack cocaine, is methamphetamine produces neurotoxicity. In animal models, and there is some evidence in humans as well, methamphetamine produces nerve toxicity to dopamine and serotonin neurons. To understand this fact is important, because antipsychotic medications work by changing the activities of the dopamine and serotonin neurons. We treat schizophrenics and psychotic individuals with drugs to reverse or return their brain function to normal. There have been a few studies investigating antipsychotic medications in the treatment of methamphetamine.

    So we do understand there are very dramatic brain changes, and the changes persist long after a user stops taking the drug. We know brains in addicts are different from brains of nonaddicts, and those differences are an essential element of addiction. We are beginning to understand there are common brain changes characteristic to every addicting substance. Some of these changes are at a molecular level. After prolonged drug use, the individual moves from a state of drug use into a qualitatively different state of addiction because of what has happened in the brain. Drug use is voluntary behavior; addiction is not.

    Addiction is a state of compulsive, uncontrollable drug use—the person is literally in a different brain state. Fundamentally and at its core, addiction is actually a brain disease. It is not a brain disease in which one develops a magic bullet to solve the problem; addiction is much more complex. The final common path to the brain that is influenced by the individual's physiological state, his or her genetics, environmental and societal situation, and how he or she is embedded into society comes together in the end. Addiction is a brain disease that has literally-embedded behavioral and social context aspects.

    Perhaps the most important message I could leave is this: We need to face the fact that, when we are dealing with methamphetamine addicts, we are dealing with people whose brains have been changed by drugs and who are literally in a different brain state. Law enforcement officers on the street understand this problem from experience, but we all must understand this fact at a core level if we are to solve the problem. This educational shortfall can be overcome; we learned from Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia. When I was a graduate student, schizophrenia was believed to be caused by "refrigerator" parents. In 1988, we decided to educate the public that schizophrenia was a brain disease, and we succeeded. We need to do the same with methamphetamine. We need to understand these brains are different, and we need to fix them. That is what treatment is for, and that is what treatment is about—either to change the brain back or to somehow compensate for that brain change.

    Addiction is a psychobiological phenomenon of brain disease with behavioral and social context aspects. That tells us the most effective treatments will deal with all of those aspects: Biological, behavioral, environmental and social. Combined treatments that bring all of those together do well. The problem is that we have virtually no biological treatments for methamphetamine addiction. This is a terrible problem. The absence of medications for stimulant addiction is probably at the core of our inability to get a handle on this issue in this country, and I have declared the development of anti-stimulant addiction medications in my institution as a top priority.

    On the other hand, we have tremendously effective behavioral techniques, and I hope at the workshops you will have the opportunity to talk about them. We have in our toolbox more clinical trial case treatments for drug addiction than we do for virtually any other mental or addictive state. We have some effective treatments, if used and applied in a systematic way. The Center for Substance Abuse Treatment (CSAT) recently published a very important study about the efficacy of treatment. Science is providing molecular targets at which to direct our efforts. These advances are helping us in our goal of developing medications.

    We at NIDA are making progress. We have declared a methamphetamine research initiative to try to answer questions about this drug and its effects. We are committed to doing our part in the scientific community to increase our understanding of the phenomenon. Let me close with this core message: To a very large degree, the use of this drug is about its effect on the brain. To fix the problem, we will have to address those brain changes, and we will have to do so in systematic and fundamental ways. Thank you very much.

    Q: You mentioned research on an anti-serum and anti-addiction-type serum. Where are we on this research, and what timeline do you see for research development?


    A: This is what I call a multiple-strategy approach to an anti-addiction medication. We actually have 26 compounds in various stages of clinical trials at the moment. We are making progress; we certainly have more and more compounds that are candidates. Some of these clinical trials are giving us positive results, but the typical time it takes the pharmaceutical industry to develop a medication is 5 to 10 years. I cannot give an exact date of completion, but I certainly hope to move faster.


    Q: What about ultra-rapid opioid detoxification (UROD)?


    A: Literal detoxification is not drug treatment. Literal detoxification addresses the minimal physical dependence aspects of only those substances that cause physical dependence accompanied by dramatic withdrawal symptoms. It is necessary to detoxify people. But after they are detoxified, they must complete drug treatment, or they will not return to functional status in society, which is the goal.


    Q: How many months or years must a person be in treatment to guarantee some success in the drug court system?


    A: Addiction is a chronic, relapsing disorder. It is not like breaking a bone. It is more like diabetes and chronic hypertension where there will be or is a high risk of occasional relapse. Addicts must be followed for a very long period and must have access to needed resources if they are to recover. They can become productive members of the community, but that does not negate a booster session some time later. Most people need help managing this disorder for a long time.


    *I copied/pasted the article instead of linking because it was a gov site. If anyone would like the link, ask me.
     

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by littlepenguin View Post
    "they" say it's a mental addiction???
    who the eff are "they?"


    Well for example - i use to be addicted to HEROIN. when you stop takeing it you throw up you shake you get SICK you ache. With meth that doesnt happen when you stop takeing it... Physical addiction is what you get from heroin where your body needs it , + mental, With meth your not physicly addicted to it its a mental thing. when your mentally addicted Its because (TOTALLY MY OPINION) Your useing the meth to BETTER something in life such as make you happy, give you the courage to meet new people..or the people who have orgies relate it with sex feeling ;better; so they take it all the time because ;SEX without it just ISNT the same or WORTH it; same goes for the happiness, if you mind fuck yourself into thinking you cant be happy without it and it makes your life 100% better etc etc of course its going to be hard to quit and your going to be depressed because ur convinced your nothing without it. i dunno i totally respect it ruions lives, i feel for everyone whos struggleing out there. but in my opinion its mental.. i have a strong mind i can control myself, it boils down to self control and self discipline. but hey thats just my view, free speech
     

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    #9
    ^
    How much do you usually use, for how many days, with how much sleep, and how often? Just curious. I've seen people on here say they've used 9 years and don't believe they have negative effects, and others say quitting (from daily use, granted) is harder than quitting heroin, where after the WDs you may recover much quicker(with H), where with meth they're left feeling awful for much longer. Must be subjective from person to person..
     

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    #10
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    tell the dude that ate the homeless mans face that that bath salts in the media is just hype
     

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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrflowers00 View Post
    tell the dude that ate the homeless mans face that that bath salts in the media is just hype
    Actually it is just a media hype as we are discussing here.

    I guess you didn't see this headline:

    No bath salts detected: Causeway attacker Rudy Eugene had only pot in his system, medical examiner reports

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/2...#storylink=cpy
     

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    #12
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    well that shit is still hella bad for you and dangerous even if that shit didn't really go down like they said it did
     

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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrflowers00 View Post
    well that shit is still hella bad for you and dangerous even if that shit didn't really go down like they said it did
    While I agree that these 'bath salt' drugs are dangerous (we don't even know the extent of long-term damage since a lot of these drugs are new, so only time will tell since 'users' are essentially 'guinea pigs') a lot of the issues that arise from these drugs are due to them being new.

    It will take time (as with all new drugs) before they are treated with the respect they deserve. Some of the dangers can be prevented from exercising proper caution such as accurately measuring doses, testing the substances to know exactly what it is you are ingesting, and not going on binges due to re-dosing too much.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kelly900 View Post
    Ok well share what you know!! i really want as much info on these salts and how to spot them quick , because i do slam sometimes (I KNOW BAD) but im thinkin if i accidently slam freakin bath salts would it not like kill me lol
    sigh...

    the title "bath salt" is simply a front for psycho-active chemicals that are being made in labs that work with similar MOA as hard drugs like cocaine, crack, meth, etc. but are not yet scheduled drugs, so by labeling the product as a "bath-salt" and having a warning saying "not for human consumption", they avoid law suits and such.
     

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    #15
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    Meth is probably about similar in terms of dangerousness and effects. They're relatively similar drugs so it really shouldn't matter what you get honestly. Bath salts are talked about more, but meth is probably just as bad and then some
     

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    #16
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    Testing kits, lab tests, any number of things.

    Do some research.
    Guidelines for OD ||| OD Standards ||| OD Directory Read Me First! ||| NPD Rules
    Please read the links above or PM me if I lock your post. R.I.P. F28
     

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