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Quitting/Tapering Thread.

Lately I've been taking a day off of any opiates every so often, especially after I've gone a bit all out on oxy or smack. Does anyone know whether this is more effective at reducing tolerance and therefore reducing sickness, than simply consistently taking my usual dose of pst?
 
Ok, back on topic, first of all, I want to thank Footsy for making this thread. ITs another great topic created by you footsy! :)

I started out my meth addict career doing just one point of ice a week every week or every second week on liek a friday or saturday as well. I too was thinking, hmm meh, this is alright, I'm not gonna get hooked/addicted etc etc like everyone else

pretty soon, before I know it, HELLO 5-6day benders how are you today.
and then, again, before I know it, 2yrs+ down the track of 5day benders+ 2day Sleep, REPEAT. etc
getting hooked was easy. getting unhooked, its the cunt part

I'm not gonna lie to everyone and say, oh hai I'm now an ex-meth addict etc. I still do it. but, I have been actively trying my best to cut down on usage and also cut down on the durations of binges. Its hard, but it is working. I've gone from 5day'ers for as long as I can remember to, STRICTLY weekends. Everyweek, I alawys aim for like maybe just 1day a week, but yeah shit happens and meth is just that powerful . Still since I've decided to quit/cutdown, I haven't done a 5day bender at all . The most is like a 3day'er YO

I know I've just copy and pasted the last couple paragraphs from the meth discussion thread. but I think it fits better here in this thread :)

Now lets talk about my love for opiates :p
Yes, I am one of those ppl that love both stims and downers ! ;D

Probably started taking opiates about 18months ago. It used to be just something I did when coming off of a stim binge. As time went on. My love for stims have decreased and my new found love for downers increased. As most people would say, yes I've replaced one drug relationship/love/addiction to another one :). Oxy's are my fav's . Well it used to be CDUB (hihi footsy yes i've just used that word what ya gonna do about it) but this one week, I was lucky enough to try a patch of Fent. I can't remember what dosage the fent patch it was though. I cut the fent patch into strips, I think like 10 strips, and that one patch, lasted me 10 days or so. I was dosing it sublingualy. It was 10days of heaven! Nodding from the moment i got up, and til the moment I went back to bed!. That totally destroyed my tolerance. CDUBS never worked for me since that patch. So then, I found an oxy contact and started to use it more and more and more and more!. This contact was awesome, always had oxys, when ever I needed more, I just txt the person, and if at the time there was no oxys, it'd only be about 1-2hr wait before oxys were available to be picked up. This lasted for a very very long time. Maybe 12months or so. But because I was more of a stim user back then, the oxy use wasn't daily until towards the end of that 12months. I think I was about 3-4months of daily usage at the end when the contact had stopped having oxys. Cold Turkey'd it. Man that was some INTENSE 4-5days of WD's. I do not wish that upon my worst enemys yo. Cold/Hot Flushes, Muscle pain, could not eat, could not get outta bed, felt like death times 50times worse etc.
B
Since then, I haven't been able to get oxys regularly at all. Which is probably a good thing :). But when I do get my hands on em, I smash thru em pretty quick, and even though it'd only be like a short binge like maybe 4-5days. The WD's still come and play games with me. Oh well. The HIGH is def well worth the WD's atm anyways :)

/end rant and plugs another oxy
 
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valium has a long half life, and withdrawal might be delayed for up to 2 weeks i think. does anybody else think he might start his WD soon?
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Heh funny you should say that, day 8/9 now and for the first time had some trouble sleeping last night, and been getting vivid dreams but thats about it. Will see how next couple days go... Can go back to my old GP if it gets too bad.

My main reason I dont want to taper is last time i was taking valium daily for 6 months or so, about 20-25mg daily, then got put on a taper following the ashton method and it seemed so drawn out. I was tapering for 10 months - longer than the actual time I took the drug. The whole time feeling pretty shitty. When I finally just quit from 2.5mgs missing the last few tapers I felt alot better, wishing I had gotten off it months ago.
 
I just realized i never posted an update on this thread as tk my tapering

Long stiry short it failed and i got smackbagain the last couple daysbm
Im trying to find a subocone doctor now though because im realizing that i was trying to do it much faster then ill be capable of sicceding with consideting the facts that i have tk do it while working a fukl time job,; i had a pretty big IV habit and withdrawalvmakes my crohns disease way worse ... so akl that combined ive come to tge conclusion that my original 5 day suboxone detox is defibately too fast
 
good to see everyones still trying to hang in here. i dont think mr ibis meant anything by what he said, he just shoots from the hip. i personally have never got anything off poppy seed tea but i have a couple of friends who have been hooked on the stuff for a couple of years, one went on to get hooked on smack in india but has since cleaned up, the other has just been kicked out of his band because hes too unreliable and forgoes practice to get high. man addiction is sad, when i look back at the last 2 and a half years of my life there is nothing that i am remotely proud of and i have so many regrets. living a drug addicted life is so fucken sad, all the money flushed down the toilet, the sneaking around and hiding it from friends, putting drugs first before pretty much anything, seeing yourself get skinny and sallow and sick and all the worry and hurt you cause for yourself and anyone who loves you. plus run ins with the law, i was soo lucky looking back, being sick and desperate and scoring and using in really bad places and situations. i think the only thing that saved me is i never really looked like your classic junkie/speed freak. i almost got bottled by a guy on the street that shall go unnamed because he had never seen me get searched and thought i was working undercover. thats another thing too i guess, getting the shit kicked out of you by a psycho or getting robbed and bashed. all that just to get high! fucken hell! haha its so easy to say but when you're in the midst of it you just blank all that shit out.

anyway im still in the middle of withdrawals, i had my last 2.5mg of valium last saturday and finished my last .5mg of suboxone last thursday and have since changed onto 160mg codeine CWEs in the evening so i can sleep. i still feel like absolute shite, today was probably the worst day ive had so far and i had work, fuck it suuucked. i see your guys point on tapering but really i think its what works for you, i think you're just as likely to fail or succeed either way depending on whether you actually want to quit. ibis i know you've quit and relapsed a few times times but this last time you stuck it out because you really wanted to, do you think it would have been any different if you didnt have or weren't ready for something else? i've done cold turkey and tapered a few times each and the thought of doing cold turkey again from a high dose really doesnt do it for me, maybe its because im a big girl but i find its just an unnecessary amount of hell to go through for no reason. using codeine takes the edge off for me and means i can sleep and function at work and from what ive experienced it doesnt actually prolong my withdrawals anymore than if id gone cold turkey, i use a pretty low dose (160-200mg) once a day for a week (longer this time because of bupe's arsehole of a half-life) and then reduce my dose quickly over another week and havent suffered any withdrawals when i jump at 30-60mg. heroin withdrawals are almost always 2 weeks long for me when i have a solid habit, maybe because i snort and dont shoot (yeah i know shut up) it takes a wee bit longer to run its course. i dunno thats just slightly educated speculation but the first week is physically fucked and the second is more the the mental side. a solid habit for me would be .5 - .8 a day. not tapering on benzo's would be totally out of the question for me, jumping off after tapering as quickly as i could to 5mg and then to 2.5mg for about 6 days has been rough, i was ok until the day i came off completely but jesus its been brutal since sunday, much worse than i was hoping for. jumping off at 30-40mg daily would have been unbearable even without combined opiate withdrawal. actually i had to go for 5 days without benzos a few months ago because i abused my script, it was hell.

i think i should be back to 80% in 2 weeks from now which seems a mile off but fuck itll be worth it. after being on methadone for 8 months then onto bupe for 5 and valium for about 7 i cant wait to wake up and feel normal. goodluck guys. if anyone wants some friendly ideas on the methadone or suboxone programs and quitting opiates or benzos pm and ill help out if i can.
 
I've removed a few off-topic posts. This thread is not the place for personal attacks. If you don't like a post just report it. Any further posts which contain attacks or refer to the previous ones will receive a warning or infraction.

Play nice and stay on topic please :)
 
at my peak was on 140mg methadone per day. Today at 45mg. Reducing 5mg per week right now, hoping to get off opiates altogether. You guys probably think i am nuts but i honestly am craving to just be 100% normal and sober. It's been so long, i want to feel what it's like to have a 100% drug free mind. :)
 
[snip]

I'll finish this off with a simple statement I hope honestly echoes through the minds of some of you.

Maintenance therapy only holds true a few points of great help, mainly not to just the user - but for the community.
a) maintenance therapies reduce crime on the community, and harm to the user as a result of such crime
b) it may aid in helping the addict reform some of his bad habits.

The underlying issue with such methods of cessation i find are this;
a) by going on a therapy, ideally you just switch one drug for another - this is not optimal in cessation, you need to replace behaviors with the drugs, not drugs.
b) the withdrawal period is greatly increased by taking up such therapies, meaning an eventual cessation is much less likely, at least in the short term (this is proven by people being on methadone/bupe for several years to decades at a time)
c) Ideally you're just replacing the money that goes into a dealers pocket that likely needs such money, with money into pharmaceutical companies profiting off your addiction when they already make more than enough.

So in hindsight, the only clear way off such drugs is with courage, determination, proper therapy and taking a fucking good look at yourself and setting realistic goals.

Or hey, you can try, and fail, and fail, and fail again, deluding yourself all the while that following the status quo helps.

[snip]
 
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Many off-topic and abusive posts removed. I have edited the above post because it also contained a good chunk of on-topic content.

I shall revise my previous statement: Any further posts which contain attacks or refer to the previous ones will receive an infraction.

Please don't make us close this thread, it has a lot of potential. It isn't, however, here for entertainment or to air personal grievances.
 
I'd also like to thank Footzcrazy for starting this thread. It has potential to be a good resource and already has some interesting accounts in it.

About your occasional 'day off' question...

Lately I've been taking a day off of any opiates every so often, especially after I've gone a bit all out on oxy or smack. Does anyone know whether this is more effective at reducing tolerance and therefore reducing sickness, than simply consistently taking my usual dose of pst?
Click to expand...

To be honest I think the occasional day of abstinence will only slightly slow down the speed at which your tolerance grows, rather than reducing it. Having said that, any occasional day off is better than none.

And are you using oxy and/or smack as well as the PST? Or do you miss the PST when you use other opiates?

Anyway, I would assume that PST withdrawal is likely to a be pretty drawn out affair if PST contains the full spectrum of alkaloids which actual fresh pod tea contains. A few years back I wrapped up a six-month binge (daily use, twice a day) on pod tea quite abruptly (ie. I suddenly ran out of material!) and had a very unpleasant following five days, to put it mildly. During those days I kept telling myself that it wouldn't last much longer and that I was going to feel better soon, and that helped me to get through it.

The problem was that once the acute part was over, the short-lived excitement of not feeling like utter rubbish quickly gave way to a far longer lasting malaise (PAWS) which ended up being worse than the initial withdrawal. I was very determined not to relapse and then have to put myself through the WDs again, so I didn't give in to temptation. What I did do, unfortunately, was try to fill the gap with other substances. Nothing worked but i kept trying in vain and using larger amounts. This was the point where I got into poly drug abuse: combining things in an attempt to get that perfect feeling. That turned out to be really mentally and physically damaging. A four month period of daily stimulant, benzodiazepine, and alcohol use put me into the worst state I've ever been in. Ironically, I saw that I had been comparatively quite healthy and well-balanced while I was addicted to the pods; still socialised, still exercised, still felt that I was myself.

Anyway, being mentally and physically dependent on something is not a good way to be. But for some of us it's not enough to be dependency-free and living a healthy, wholesome life. There always seems something lacking.


And to opi8: Good luck with it. It seems like you've got momentum and the determination to get there this time. I hope it works out for you. I like reading your posts, they're always informative or interesting.
 
Thanks a lot for your reply Halif :)

I use pst daily as mainly a maintenance thing, and with the day off question, I guess I'm wondering if it makes a difference whether I take a consistent dose of pst daily, or whether I take double the amount every second day, for example.

I do use oxy and smack as well as pst rather than missing the pst when I use other opiates. I feel like the effects of smack or oxy are better once I already have some opioids in my system, so I feel like it's a waste not to use them with pst. I'm aware though that this is just compounding my problem/habit, and I'm realising that having a habit is just really a pretty crappy thing. I really don't want a habit but I'm just finding it hard to find the willpower to stop/cut down/taper at the moment, and I'm just a pussy when it comes to the sickness. I appreciate hearing about your wd though, I thought the physical effects might have lasted longer than 5 days, but the long lasting mental effects don't sound great either.

I really relate to that feeling of trying to fill that gap, I feel like I'm kind of at the end of the road substance wise though, having burnt out on most classes so far. Opiates are really the most functional of them all so far, the physical dependence just sucks. I wish that I could find a happy life without anything, but it feels very difficult.
 
1.
I really don't want a habit but I'm just finding it hard to find the willpower to stop/cut down/taper at the moment
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I used to think there was never a good time to start tapering down/going cold turkey. And in a sense that's true; there are bad times and worse times. I have definitely found that there are some periods where the very thought of cutting down puts me into a mini anxiety attack and has me running for the stash. And then there are these rare and precious times where there's a spark of grim determination - and that's my window of chance.

I had to learn to listen to myself and be ready for when that window opened up. Does that make any sense at all? ;)

You're in a tough spot feeling like you've reached the end of the road as far as what substances have to offer. It's kind of a terrifying (albiet a muted, abstract kind of terror) feeling for me when I think that maybe I can't get high anymore. Where am I gonna go then?

To be honest, I don't think I've reached that point, and reading about your past battles with meth makes me think you've had much tougher battles than I have. But the bit I can relate to is that feeling of being stuck in the middle - using too much, but not getting the satisfaction desired. The feeling that there's nowhere else to go but into the pain of withdrawals. Out of the zombie middle ground and into the hellfire.

I'd like to say that the fire of WDs is purifying and renewing - and I guess it could be - but I've never made it far enough through the other end to say so with confidence. I just keep burning myself down, building back up, and burning again.
 
Been a good 6 weeks without the dreaded pipe... Withdrawals are coming in waves, last couple of weeks have been horrendous, emotionally crippled with manic bouts of aggression and sadness at any given time, woke up today feeling a lot more together. had a great sleep and have been exercising vigorously to keep my brains reward pathway ticking, EXERCISE HELPS SO MUCH WITH METH WITHDRAWAL! This is my number one bit of advice. without this to aid the cravings ( and sex is great for it) i would be a sucker for the pipe again and delve into my old ways. Oh, and smash your fucking pipe or you will be drawn to it like a mousetrap. That "cheese" will destroy your fucking personality, friends, dreams and aspirations. Sounds like a no brainer to quit, the fucked up thing it isnt?!?!
 
^ Congrats man. I dont have any experience with meth myself but its always great to hear someone else has kicked!
 
Halif said:
I used to think there was never a good time to start tapering down/going cold turkey. And in a sense that's true; there are bad times and worse times. I have definitely found that there are some periods where the very thought of cutting down puts me into a mini anxiety attack and has me running for the stash. And then there are these rare and precious times where there's a spark of grim determination - and that's my window of chance.

I had to learn to listen to myself and be ready for when that window opened up. Does that make any sense at all? ;)
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wise words, sir. thanks halif, great post.
 
Great post Halif, can definately relate to this window of opportunity u speak of. Unfortunately for me, i disregarded those opportunities with weak willpower and paid the price with my job, money and healthy relationships. Meth just makes all rational thinking and inkling of self respect disappear into thin air.
 
Wow. My doctor that was tapering me off Xanax is on holiday and the doc I ended up seeing didnt understand what I was saying (in regards to my usual dose) and ended up scripting me 50x2mg bars for 10 days
Now I know that seems like good news but im worry that when my regular doc will think I was taking the piss and cut me off.

But for now this is fucking awesome.
 
^ doesent sound like your quitting or tappering either.

I'm happy to say I've quit nicotine. It all started by acquiring a vaporiser.
Still smoke weed, but for someone whos smoked weed and tobacco together (tobacco through the day) for around 8-10 years, I think it's pritty good.
It's been two weeks since I had a rolly, and one week before that without aswell.
Guess it was just the weed my body wants.
 
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Good stuff Captain. I'm so glad I've never been addicted to ciggies/nicotine because I don't reckon I'd ever be able to quit, it seems like a real tough one. I just imagine if for instance instead of ciggie breaks people were taking puffy breaks and smoking meth how utterly impossible it would've been for me to quit - how common place it is would mean there are triggers everywhere and make it hard to quit, it seems anyway.

Halif, I really appreciate your post, and what you've said makes a lot of sense to me. I definitely do relate to the window of opportunity when I have a shred of motivation. Also I agree about bad times and worse times to quit! You're right that there really is no perfect moment, and with meth at least when I quit it was more a matter of just closing my eyes and doing it, like jumping off the high board, because thinking it through and rationalising it just never works. I don't think that I'll ever be 100% sure I want to quit or 100% sure I want to quit using, so it's just about making a decision and sticking to it, I guess, because the druggie in me will always grab onto that small amount of doubt about whether I should really stop.

Hope everyone is doing well :)
 
^ Absolutely sums it up, footscrazy.

Although my use may not have been as prolonged as some, it was definitely significant enough to impact negatively, very rapidly on my life. 16 months after capturing that 'window of opportunity', I'm still resolute that I made the right decsion. There is never an ideal, or easy time to quit; for me it was a matter of listening to that voice of rationality and conviction that managed to call out through my drug altered mind...and staying true to it. In two seperate periods of my life I gave meth a chance...and both times it took and gave nothing back. I didn't need to grant it a third.
It amazes me how meth changes one's thinking; how we rationalise and justify anything to appease and make acceptable our use. How every rule is broken and how "nevers" become "oftens" or "always".

Quitting was difficult in a sense as there were few I could share the experience with... and no one to completely back me up or reassure me that I was doing the right thing...and not just overreacting or becoming some mega anti-drug prude. After previous attempts to quit in a fairly predictable cycle, I finally tapered slightly, then when my last bit of gear was gone...I didn't buy anymore. I remember coming home in my afternoon break from work, knowing it was all gone...and being desperately inconsolable...thinking, how will I get through this?!

Throughout the withdrawl phase I had to keep working in my hospitality job...and felt like I was dying. Sleep and food helped in the moments I could get them...listening to music...nature...but perhaps having to work and interact with the world was my saving grace. It kept me out of my head (for moments, anyway) and forced me into functionality...
It really wasn't too long until the energy started to return...and with that, the wonderful feeling of a clean body and mind. Wow, how I missed that! Although it was probably a good 2 months or so before I regained my self-confidence and felt "normal" again... it did happen. :)
 
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