Opioids Methadone brands potency - Mallinckrodt vs Roxanne?

[marienbad]

So I've been taking the Roxanne manufactured methadone (with the 54 / 142 imprint) whenever I've been doing methadone for recreation lately; but now I've come into possession of some Mallinckrodt methadones (rectangular, Xanax bar looking ones with imprint M 57 71). Both kinds are 10mg. My friend told me these Mallinckrodt ones are a good deal stronger than the Roxanne, and he recommended lessening or even halving my typical dose accordingly. What do you guys think, is there any difference between the two brands in terms of potency or is it pretty negligible?

(I know some argue this kind of thing is purely placebo effect, but I've switched brands of klonopin with no particular expectation and noted that the new brand was very noticeably stronger than the old, for example)..

Just to clarify, here's links to the two:
http://www.drugs.com/imprints/54-142-544.html (Roxanne)
http://www.drugs.com/imprints/m-57-71-5107.html (Mallinckrodt)

 

[tricomb]

I usually only get these dirt cheap, I am pretty loyal to Mallinckrodt. I love their morphine sulphate ER, but prefer Roxanne's MS-IR. Malli makes great hydromorphone too, and also my generic 10/325 oxycodones too, IIRC.

I use for pain management though, not recreation or maintenance. There is absolutely nothing recreational about methadone IMO, but I'm not trying to start a debate on that.

One thing I noticed, is yeah, malli's certainly FEEL stronger, if it's placebo idk, but it's VERY convincing placebo if that. With these mallis, I only take like 2.5-5mg and it feels like I took 7.5-10mg of liquid methadose (never had Roxanne methadone)

 

[80mg]

I usually only get these dirt cheap, I am pretty loyal to Mallinckrodt. I love their morphine sulphate ER, but prefer Roxanne's MS-IR. Malli makes great hydromorphone too, and also my generic 10/325 oxycodones too, IIRC.

I use for pain management though, not recreation or maintenance. There is absolutely nothing recreational about methadone IMO, but I'm not trying to start a debate on that.

One thing I noticed, is yeah, malli's certainly FEEL stronger, if it's placebo idk, but it's VERY convincing placebo if that. With these mallis, I only take like 2.5-5mg and it feels like I took 7.5-10mg of liquid methadose (never had Roxanne methadone)

I must second that. The M boxes (as me and my friends call em) are WAY more effective. In every way. There dones, bupe,oxy...everything...and yes dillys are the stronges. Most dealers charge an extra 5 dollars around here for the oxy mboxes cause they KNOW people go NUTS for em.

 

[marienbad]

Bump. Interested in some more opinions...

 

[spunkitteh]

i have to disagree, IME the 54-142s are stronger than M-boxes, and i prefer roxane disket orange wafers to any other clinic 'done

 

[Cloudy]

This same thread has been popping up so fucking often, please use the search feature rather than making a new thread.

Also, I've had both, and they are the same. You might have a slightly different amount of time for the pills to break down in the stomach, but with the amount of time for a oral administered dose to be absorbed to reach peak plasma concentrations, the the time it takes the pill to breakdown will not effect the come up time that significantly.

People want to believe there are huge differences in pills produced in the USA, but the FDA has standards when it comes to production of medication. If there was a significant difference the generics wouldn't be able to be sold/produced. The formula for the inactive ingredients varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, but the active ingrediants HAVE to be what is said on the packaging. If it says 10mg per pill, there is 10mg PER PILL. This isn't india where there may be a variance of .5mg per pill, the government has standards in place to make sure the individual is getting exactly what is being scripted.

If you want to get around any sort of pill break down process in the GI tract, crush your pill, dissolve it in water, and swallow. You will have a faster come up.


edit; also, people dont realize that oral administration of methadone is yes seen to be ~85% BA, but it has been seen to be as low as 50%. Oral administration can have a wider variety of BA compared to other routes of administration. This has to deal with a variety of factors associated with YOU, not the pills

 

[tricomb]

^true story. 10mg methadone = 10mg methadone, the brand name doesn't matter.... as long as your getting them from within the united states, you're good.

 

[Fire&Water]

Man how I wish it worked for my chronic pain ! Makes sense why it is so inexpensive
It is such a strange opioid that if you have to keep increasing dose the side effects outweigh the benefits. If you can use a steady 20-30 mg's of methadone for pain and it works for you, Regards

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I don't know abut these exact formulations, but personally I noticed a huge difference between liquid methadone and the tablet form. A lot of people do report a difference when they switch brands, sometimes seemingly regardless of which brand they're switching from or to - I think in general it probably has more to do with the individual's body and metabolism, how the methadone is formulated, and any other ingredients in it, as opposed to the quantity or "quality" of methadone in the formulation. Some forms/brands of methadone digest faster/slower and so take effect faster/slower as well.
But I think it's possible that part of the problem with the liquid formulation - in the country where I live - might be because it is not mixed properly? Personally I've found the tablets to be much more consistent than other forms of methadone.

The best idea is to take less than normal just to be on the safe side, especially if you're a recreational user who doesn't have a high tolerance. You can always take more later but you can't un-take it if you've taken too much.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Another thing that I thought of is if you're getting these pills on the street and not from a pharmacy or a friend who actually has a prescription, there's no way to know what's in them. People can just use a pill press to make tablets that look like whatever drug they want. Scary that this is becoming more common :-(

 

[mrflowers00]

no matter what brand of drug you are getting doesn't matter the FDA makes sure that they are all the same or so close that no one would be able to tell the difference

 

[tricomb]

Another thing that I thought of is if you're getting these pills on the street and not from a pharmacy or a friend who actually has a prescription, there's no way to know what's in them. People can just use a pill press to make tablets that look like whatever drug they want. Scary that this is becoming more common :-(

True but I have never heard of methadone being faked, plus it would be DAMN hard to mimic methadone because it has a VERY distinct differences that a fake could not mimic, like it's unique taste, and the absolutely immobilizing pain you get from intranasal use (which supposedly has oneset in 7 minutes according to research I've read).

Also, thank god, most people aren't buying methadone illicitly for recreation, but rather to tide them over until their next fix.

Also, in the USA they do a fairly good job at keeping the diversion of methadone low, most methadone sold on the street is diverted from chronic pain patients.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

no matter what brand of drug you are getting doesn't matter the FDA makes sure that they are all the same or so close that no one would be able to tell the difference

I have to disagree. Do you honestly trust the FDA? And do you believe that just because something (supposedly) contains the same number of mgs of active ingredient that means it's effects will be exactly the same? There are other factors... People report differences between brands of drugs (of all different types of drugs, not referring just to methadone) all the time, are they all just imagining it? However, I think the biggest likelihood in this case is that whoever is selling them said they were way stronger as a marketing tactic, people do that all the time. But I still think that when trying a new brand of a strong drug which has the potential to kill you it's best to take less than usual at first, just to be safe.

True but I have never heard of methadone being faked, plus it would be DAMN hard to mimic methadone because it has a VERY distinct differences that a fake could not mimic, like it's unique taste, and the absolutely immobilizing pain you get from intranasal use (which supposedly has oneset in 7 minutes according to research I've read).

Also, thank god, most people aren't buying methadone illicitly for recreation, but rather to tide them over until their next fix.

Also, in the USA they do a fairly good job at keeping the diversion of methadone low, most methadone sold on the street is diverted from chronic pain patients.

That's true, it's probably much less likely for methadone tablets. I was just thinking about how in this day in age when you can buy pill presses online how can we really be sure that any pills we are getting illicitly are what they appear to be and have the real quantity in them, etc. Methadone tablets probably have a much higher likelihood of being real than the liquid. Often people (desperate for fast cash) will sell liquid methadone on the street which has been diluted or doesn't actually contain methadone.

But I don't know about methadone being that hard to fake though, especially to an inexperienced user or someone who is not taking it nasally. If you were pretty familiar with methadone and what you'd used before was definitely real (and it's labelled dosage) then you might notice the effects were different, but that would after you'd already taken it. Anyway, it's probably unlikely though as there isn't a huge market for illicit methadone. People sell fake cocaine and fake heroin all the time though. I'm not sure how prevalent fake pills are, but the idea just scares me because we tend to think of pills as being an assurance of authenticity.

It does appear (from this board at least) that more and more people are using methadone recreationally, which personally I find bizarre.

 

[BiggDirty01]

The mallinkcrodt ones are definitely the best and I have had both. Plus the mallie's look like xanax bars which is always a plus.

 

[Cloudy]

I have to disagree. Do you honestly trust the FDA? And do you believe that just because something (supposedly) contains the same number of mgs of active ingredient that means it's effects will be exactly the same? There are other factors... People report differences between brands of drugs (of all different types of drugs, not referring just to methadone) all the time, are they all just imagining it? However, I think the biggest likelihood in this case is that whoever is selling them said they were way stronger as a marketing tactic, people do that all the time. But I still think that when trying a new brand of a strong drug which has the potential to kill you it's best to take less than usual at first, just to be safe.

Yeah I do trust the FDA. It would be silly for people not to. The FDA isn't apart of big pharma. They put laws in place to protect the public and have been molded through out the years.

People can report all they want, but individuals are not reliable sources when it comes to quantitative analysis. And yes, people are imagining it. It's called PLACEBO EFFECT. Your body can't distinguish between .95mg of alprazolam and 1.00mg of alprazolam, so how can someone say "omg this brand is totaly stronger than another". That's just retarded. And if they actually put a noticable amount less of a drug in a product, there would be fall out that would be to be seen and used against them. This doesn't happen because they aren't trying to lose their business or even get shut down for a couple of weeks for violations of the law.

I feel sorry feel people who want to believe in conspiracy theories associated with different manufacturers of drugs, and a lack of understanding of the FDA.

edit: Seriously your body will affect the biological response of a drug more than the differences in inactive ingredients (or even a small amount of difference in active ingredients). Stomach contents, pH, etc., are variables that can make a difference.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah I do trust the FDA. It would be silly for people not to. The FDA isn't apart of big pharma. They put laws in place to protect the public and have been molded through out the years.

People can report all they want, but individuals are not reliable sources when it comes to quantitative analysis. And yes, people are imagining it. It's called PLACEBO EFFECT. Your body can't distinguish between .95mg of alprazolam and 1.00mg of alprazolam, so how can someone say "omg this brand is totaly stronger than another". That's just retarded. And if they actually put a noticable amount less of a drug in a product, there would be fall out that would be to be seen and used against them. This doesn't happen because they aren't trying to lose their business or even get shut down for a couple of weeks for violations of the law.

I feel sorry feel people who want to believe in conspiracy theories associated with different manufacturers of drugs, and a lack of understanding of the FDA.

edit: Seriously your body will affect the biological response of a drug more than the differences in inactive ingredients (or even a small amount of difference in active ingredients). Stomach contents, pH, etc., are variables that can make a difference.

Don't feel sorry for me. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think I understand the FDA and the US "health"care system pretty well. Not everything is placebo effect. For example, I switched to a dif form of methadone with absolutely no expectation that it would be any different as I was told that was "impossible", and I tried to attribute it to anything else before realizing that nothing had changed except for the methadone. It's so dismissive and condescending to say that everyone who disagrees with you is imaging things. I am much more inclined to believe copious anecdotal evidence than the Western medical/pharmaceutical system.

 

[BiggDirty01]

For some reason I've never had this problem except with hydrocodone. When I started out, I was told that we always wanted the watsons versus the others and I until I took the other generic forms did I notice feeling a little different. I don't know if they use different fillers/binders or if that is as regulated as the percentage of the active medication required by the FDA.

Nowadays however I am noticing that these Mallie fentanyl patches suck and will definitely asking the pharmacist to order the watson or similar type patch. Plus some patches dont even come close to working for 72hrs! And thats a huge issue because say you have some noob old lady with cancer...gets these patches one time that are different brand and all of a sudden she is getting dopesick because her patch isnt as good as some of the others.

FDA you shmucks are being way too lenient on CQ procedures when it comes to powerful narcotics...!!

 

[HYDRO_CHRONIC]

uh,there is a difference , i dont know what it is but the M's are the way to go ,ive used it every way possble ,those round one get almost three times as big when water is added

the 54-142 break down almost imediatley when they hit liquid so i dont think its the breakdown time

everybody i know hates the 54-142's

i swear the feeling i get from them has a "dirty" feel to it..,....

 

[marienbad]

Wow, some interesting posts all around... I certainly see where Cloudy is coming from, if there was really this huge difference in quality or the amount of actual methadone in different brands, it would be widely noticed and the lesser brand wouldn't (probably) still be around.

But... whether it's a placebo effect or not, there are definitely very noticeable differences between different brands of this drug (and others). I'm on 20mg on the Mallie 57-71's at the moment; I normally would take 30mg or at least 25mg of the Roxane ones, but I don't feel the need now to take that much. 20mg is satisfactory; it feels somehow smoother, a little "cleaner" (as the above poster said) and generally more of a euphoric opiate high than a heavy body-load opiate high. The Roxanes, especially at higher doses, gave a more physically "heavy" feeling that could be irritating sometimes.

So I see a difference. I prefer the M-boxes to Roxannes, if only cause I can get more bang for my buck. (These are from a friend's prescription, so certainly not some kind of fake 'dones like a poster here worried).

If it is placebo, then cool. I don't mind. It's damn good placebo.

As an aside -- I guess using methadone for recreation isn't very common? Or just incomprehensible to a lot of people? I don't know; I really, really enjoy it. Oh sure, the euphoria and overall high isn't as powerful and orgasmic as the rush from heroin or oxymorphone or whatever. But the extremely long-lasting high, which doesn't lessen for as much as 10 hours, is amazing, and for me it's strong enough (especially ofc on higher doses). It's the kind of thing you take to complement the day and just have in the background as a great mood lifter rather than something you take to get immediately fucked up and nod off like crazy etc (strangely, I find I rarely nod at all on 'done, or when I do it's usually the next day when I'm maybe half as high and more sort of tired/lazy-feeling than opiated). It's something one has to sort of plan for, because of the long duration and after-effects. But I love those effects. Honestly, the only opiate I've tried that I'd rank higher is heroin; certainly, oxymorphone has amazing euphoria, but I don't dig the speediness of it and it always gives me a terrible hangover the next day. Hydromorphone has an amazing rush as well but much of the high dissipates way to quickly for my tastes. Less potent stuff like Hydrocodone and tramadol are naturally just not as good imo (though I feel weird lumping those two together as hydro is far far better and more of an actual opiate). And so on. See, I'm rambling now; a certain sign of being very opiated.

 

[Znegative]

^i think that for a lot of people that are new to opiates, methadone appears to be a very attractive drug as it is long acting and very potent. In truth, I preferred it to heroin for a brief period of time, as it is capable of producing a very similar high. However, I think anyone that has ever taken methadone chronically quickly learns that it is not recreational in the long run, and is best used for what it is prescribed for (maintenance, pain, detox).

As far as this whole debate goes, I have to agree that I've found the Malli's to feel more potent than the liquid methadose which is more common to obtain, and is also what is most often given out at clinics around me. I remember when I was on MMT the last time around, and I had to go into the hospital for some reason or another, and I was given the mallinckrodt pills, equivalent dosage to the cherry flavored methadose I had been taking. I definately felt way more of a buzz off of them, and also felt as though they kicked in a hell of a lot faster..however, it could have easily been placebo, as I had always heard street junky's praising the pills over the liquid.