• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!

Cocaine and MDMA

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
1,297
Location
Looking-Glass Land
last friday i had a profound experience with cocaine and MDMA.

i first started snorting a few lines of cocaine before heading out for the evening, and proceeded to pop two very high quality MDMA pills and thats for sure.

it seemed as if i had NO effects from the MDMA apart from people commenting on my ridiculous large pupils.

i returned about 3-4 hours later after ingesting the MDMA which i thought was a complete dud, and continued to snort more lines of cocaine with a bit of booze.

it seemed as if the MDMA hit me like a truck at this point, i was rolling my tits off. even 4 hours after taking the MDMA, surely it should have passed through my system by then? the MDMA/coke continued to work, and got more and more intense every line of coke i did, honestly it was like being god all evening long. i can hardly remember most of it because of the alcohol , but the parts i do i was king of the world.

does anyone know why this happened? is it due to the fact that cocaine is a reuptake regulator and stopped me from using the excess serrotonin?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I combined coke and MDMA once and loved it, but the hangover was so bad I never did it again.

I'm not a biochemist but I don't think cocaine has any serotonin action.
 
Cocaine is a serotonin-dopamine-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Coke competes with MDMA on some receptors. Coke will kill an MDMA high if they're both taken at the same time. That's why you didn't feel anything at first. When you did roll you probably weren't snorting coke. The MDMA is still in your system, it's just it doesn't really release the serotonin with the coke inside. Once the coke is gone, that's when the MDMA works and BOOM, you roll.
 
but did you take cocaine before you took the MDMA? i think that cocaine is a potent serotonin uptake inhibitor but i could stand corrected by you. surely this is the reason behind its addictive potential , the fact that it affects serotonin and dopamine at the same time?

ah yes, i believe so, but still, even 4-5 hours after dosing MDMA would i still have significant amounts of serotonin left in my brain for the cocaine to reuptake once i snorted the cocaine for the second time in the evening? thats where i get a little fuzzy - in fact, surely the amounts of serotonin left in my brain should have depleted by the time i took cocaine once more, and as such should mot have provided an MDMA high along with cocaine, but again i could be wrong.

although it competes with serotonin, surely the levels of serotonin would have provided my synapses with an increased amount resulting in an MDMA high, regardless if i took it beforehand or not... as serotonin is inhibited by cocaine, and MDMA provides more than you originally have, surely you should experience a greater MDMA high, as it is an antagonist of the region..? surely cocaine inhibits the release of serotonin gradually, leaving more in the serotonin synapses, and as such, MDMA which is proven to provide more serotonin to the regions of the brain should just be left there, or something along those lines?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Serotonin-acting drugs are not addictive by themselves.
The high dopamine affinity is what gives Cocaine it's addictive potential.
Dopamine is part of our primitive reward system... Food, sex gives out dopamine. Making a good joke and seeing people laughing gives dopamine. Shit, even posting on bluelight can give you dopamine. Usually stuff that are associated with goals in life (or just generally stuff that are considered "good") give dopamine. Like, if you set out to be an MMA fighter, you really will get the kicks at first by just hitting the sack. But after a little while, that won't do it. You'd still wanna be an MMA fighter, but hitting the sack just won't give you the kicks, you'll have to start beating people to get the same dopamine rush.

Same thing with driving cars. At first, driving a car really slow is nice. But as you get more experienced, driving a car isn't as fun anymore. Unless you go really fast. But then, after driving like a maniac all the time everyday, that gets old too and doesn't feel as fun. That's when you have to drive even faster to get the same rush, and you'll probably die.

Same thing with cocaine, and any dopamine-acting drugs.

And when you don't get that dopamine, you go into withdrawal and CRAVE CRAVE CRAVE.
It's just basic shit, really.
 
so why don't we have the same with serotonin reactive drugs? its simply unreasonable to say that a person cannot be addicted to the feeling of wellbeing that MDMA gives out for example. i know i went through a honey moon phase with MDMA under which i thought MDMA was the solution to all my problems, but soon found it wasn't due to the rapid tolerance that it brings. i think that cocaine in itself is both, dopamine and serotonin, which makes it so addictive in personality compared to say amphetamines, which only give a temporal dopamine boost and a low serotonin boost at the same time. what about withdrawal from serotonin?? SSRI's have been shown to give brain zaps etc when tapering down from them, and they are said to be serotonin boosting agents, of which are clinically proven to decrease serotonin levels in the brain but w/e.

MDMA is of a different nature in that it primarily effects serotonin, and that it doesn't affect dopamine transmission. are you essentially saying that dopamine is more powerful than serotonin? i don't know if this were the case - as many people do abuse MDMA and suffer drastically under the influence of the drug and otherwise. i know that personally for the week after i wanted i commit suicide, and even if i took MDMA, i could not recover from the underlying cause of depression, which was to begin with, MDMA, until i had waited at least a good week after taking it. could this also be a reason to suicidality of SSRI's? people simply bombarded with serotonin to begin with, although not of the same nature of MDMA, as it affects different receptors of serrotinin, most notably 5-HT2A receptors which are targeted when MDMA is taken as a direct cause of breakdown of MDMA into mda.
 
You're wrong about MDMA. MDMA releases huge amounts of dopamine along with serotonin. It releases more serotonin than dopamine but it's still quite a lot of dopamine.
You wouldn't have that huge, i-feel-like-I-am-god self-confidence on MDMA if it wasn't for the dopamine ;)
Yeah. I am saying dopamine is more powerful than serotonin when it comes to addictive/compulsive behaviour. And it's really easy to tell the difference between dopamine and serotonin and which does what. Take enough of a good stim (like MDPV, well... not really a "good" stim, but it's good) and you'll end up compulsively re-dosing (just one more bump, that would be fucking GREAT, oh yeah one more bump is exactly what I need, HAHAHA I'll never stop) until you realize 7 days have passed where you haven't slept and eaten very little and your supply of MDPV is gone and you're fucking shaking but you want more but can't get more and it's bad.

But you're probably making confusions here.

You're confusing addiction to a drug (like cocaine,speed) with just liking something so much that you wanna do it all the time.

God knows, I love MDMA, If I didn't "give away" the remaining 800mg's of crystal I had after that first time I tried E, I would have probably ended up doing it a week after. Which I am so fucking glad I didn't. Because I might have lost some magic :)

I guess there's a few degrees of seriousness when it comes to psychological addiction. You can be addicted to playing football every weekend. It's a habit. Of course if you like it, it can be addictive. You can be addicted to scratching your face, like a tic. But that's mostly like a light habit that you could easily break if you wanted to.
Real psychological addiction to a drug is much much worse. You wake up in the morning with one thing in mind: to get money so you can get drugs. You get the money but you call your dealer and he says he can't see you that day. That's when you go into horrible depressions and get feelings of uselessness and hopelessness cause you know you won't get your "thing" for the day. But even though you know you can't get it, you feel like you can't live another day without it. So you keep trying and trying to figure some way you can get some, you call him again and he explains again. Then you start panicking... "Oh shit, this is really happening" Running in circles in your room. Pulling out your hair, scratching the walls, crying, thinking about what a fucking loser junkie you are and how you failed your family. Crying because you know your mother would die inside if she only knew what you were doing. Wish you were fucking dead. Wonder what the fuck happened to your life and how you got there? You used to be a much more happy person.

Now that's fucking addiction.

About the serotonin withdrawal. You're usually just depressed & shit.
 
Last edited:
really? i don't think it acts on dopamine as actively as serotonin in the brain frankly. when i take amps and MDMA together it gives a profound experience which can only be described by someone who is under the influence of both drugs. i believe that MDMA plays the part in serotonin release and a minimal amount of dopamine at the same time, rather than a large amount of dopa- otherwise why would people not suffer from psychosis under the influence of MDMA at a higher dosage? psychosis is prevalent amongst people with a high dopamine level, and my self, having taken a good 2 grams of MDMA in a night can safely say that i didn't experience psychosis/scitzophrenic symptoms, but rather those of being low on serotonin - depressed. i'm still not sure on the exact mechanism of MDMA however, and stand to be corrected, but if MDMA is a potent dopamagenic producer, how come i don't experience any psychotic symptoms even after injesting an extremely large amount of MDMA through the course of an evening, and how is it that when i injest cocaine simulationusly, i experience the MDMA symptoms, after it being an inhibitor of serotonin?
 
MDMA doesn't even work like that. Less is more. I doubt 2 grams would be any better than 250mg's of pure MDMA. That would have you fucking floored not being able to move because "Shit, it's all so beautiful oh I love myself what?? fluffy oh yeah mmmm god this is nice".

2 grams is a shitload. How did you not faint, get sick, suffer brain damage? I think it would most likely do some brain damage... Either that or it was cut to shit.
You can't really say MDMA doesn't release much dopamine because you don't get psychosis from it. How did you come up with that? It's different in it's pharmacology than other drugs like speed or mdpv, maybe it affects the dopamine receptors in a different way. Or, you actually can get psychosis from mdma, but that you had shit mdma. Or, that you will suffer other worse side-effects before reaching psychosis. Or that after exceeding a certain dose, it doesn't have an increased effect which I think is the reason.

As I said, less is more.
 
in the simple fact that dopamine receptors being flooded with excess dopamine is what causes psychosis, hence amptheamine psychosis and even schizophrenia in some. how can dopamine affect a dopamine receptor in a different way? if it were provided with excess dopamine (which is the leading cause of meth/amphetamine psychosis) then it would occur. MDMA doesn't have this effect on myself, and from what you are telling me, it doesn't inhibit uptake of dopamine to the synapses occurrent in psychosis, which would possibly prevent psychosis, but cause and excess to build formulating an excess release once the drug had cleared from my system. ingesting more MDMA leads to a state of hallucinations personally, as mda builds up, leading to excess 5-ht3 formulating, which causes temporary visual hallucinations and auditory ones.
 
I will have to leave this question for a more experienced neurologist than me.
 
i believe that due to the inhibitory effects of cocaine on the brains receptors on serotonin, this effect can become apparent, in that if you have used cocaine before you have taken an MDMA tablet or powder, it will not affect you, as serotonin levels are halted within the synapses while under the influence of cocaine. when you take another hit/line of cociane, it re-upregulates further into the synapses, and considering the excess amount of serotonin that is produced by MDMA, it is then processed... i don't know if this is a definitive answer as to how i experienced the high several hours later with the use of cocaine, as the serotonin had been built up, but not allowed to be regulated within the synaptic clefts, but maybe someone could shed some light on the subject? thank you all for contribution to this thread.
 
synthetix said:
so why don't we have the same with serotonin reactive drugs? its simply unreasonable to say that a person cannot be addicted to the feeling of wellbeing that MDMA gives out for example. i know i went through a honey moon phase with MDMA under which i thought MDMA was the solution to all my problems, but soon found it wasn't due to the rapid tolerance that it brings. i think that cocaine in itself is both, dopamine and serotonin, which makes it so addictive in personality compared to say amphetamines, which only give a temporal dopamine boost and a low serotonin boost at the same time. what about withdrawal from serotonin?? SSRI's have been shown to give brain zaps etc when tapering down from them, and they are said to be serotonin boosting agents, of which are clinically proven to decrease serotonin levels in the brain but w/e.

MDMA is of a different nature in that it primarily effects serotonin, and that it doesn't affect dopamine transmission. are you essentially saying that dopamine is more powerful than serotonin? i don't know if this were the case - as many people do abuse MDMA and suffer drastically under the influence of the drug and otherwise. i know that personally for the week after i wanted i commit suicide, and even if i took MDMA, i could not recover from the underlying cause of depression, which was to begin with, MDMA, until i had waited at least a good week after taking it. could this also be a reason to suicidality of SSRI's? people simply bombarded with serotonin to begin with, although not of the same nature of MDMA, as it affects different receptors of serrotinin, most notably 5-HT2A receptors which are targeted when MDMA is taken as a direct cause of breakdown of MDMA into mda.
Click to expand...

yes this is a well known difference between MDMA and cocaine... e.g. cocaine is known to be highly addictive, and the primary reason why is because how active it is in the dopamine pathway.. with MDMA there simply is not the same incidence of abuse (e.g. there are certainly people that roll way too much but you dont see people going on week long MDMA binges like you do with cocaine...) the main reason for this is because MDMA only releases a small amount of dopamine compared to the full dumping of serotonin... and because of this the brain doesnt get stuck in the reward cycle....
 
Last week i made the big mistake of snorting two big lines of coke on a MDMA comedown... first off i was suprised as hell not to feel the coke in a good way and second the mdma+cocaine crash was MASSIVE (depression/anxiety and in such a bad mood i ended up arguing non stop with one bloke) :// Uhhh, next time i'm taking whatever is necessary to fall asleep straight away and avoid that terrible comedown.

That was my only experience with this combination, if both drugs can actually blend i suppose the timing is vital..
 
after reading this i'm a little bit confused about taking cocaine/mdma this evening...going to a party i waited half a year to show up and got some crystals and 0,5g of very good cocaine. my plan was to go to a "preparty" with friends, take some cocaine there and some hours later drop the mdma before going to that big party. (loo&placido) :D
i absolutely LOVE mdma and take it very unfrequent but if the cocaine blocks my brain-receptors and the mdma won't work or hits me when the party is over this would be a little bit messed up...

maybe i try to take the last line at least 2h before dropping the mdma. hope this works :-/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top