Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy 2C-B Thread - Stage 2

[Kayokane]

100mg? Dude, that is an insanely high dose. What was it like?

 

[TheBlackPirate]

So far I tried 1.25 mg, 5 mg, and 7.5 mg.

An allergy test, wise move.

 

[Fug]

100mg? Dude, that is an insanely high dose. What was it like?

Dude, he's saying that he dissolved 100mg into 400ml of water so that he could dose volumetrically / without using scales, not that he took 100mg

 

[drseltsam]

Dude, he's saying that he dissolved 100mg into 400ml of water so that he could dose volumetrically / without using scales, not that he took 100mg

You are correct. I took very small mounts of this, as I stated 1.25, 5, and 7.5 mg. Bulb pipettes are amazing and quite affordable for what they do.

An allergy test, wise move.

Yea. It tough me that I am very sensitive towards this compound. Or how Shulgin put it once: I do not like to be surprised. Thus starting with 5mg, then 7.5 mg with some weeks in between. Perhaps I will try 10 mg in some weeks but with at least 6 weeks in between the experiments.

 

[Kayokane]

Dude, he's saying that he dissolved 100mg into 400ml of water so that he could dose volumetrically / without using scales, not that he took 100mg

Oh yeah, sure, I knew that, I was just, uh, testing you guys lol

 

[drseltsam]

As mentioned above, I tried to dissolve 100 mg of 2C-B*HCl in 400 mL of tap water. Not everything went into solution and some colorless sediment remained, even after heating to about 60 °C.

Any idea what this could be? I checked the usual methods for the synthesis of 2C-B in PiKAL and other sources but it is not evident to me what could remain after converting the freebase to the HCl salt. Even the acetate salt should have a good solubility in water. Any ideas here?

For now, I keep the solution frozen but the next time I will filter of the sediment and try to run a Marquis test on it.

 

[Lemon aid man56]

I've been on alpha php it's intense

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

As mentioned above, I tried to dissolve 100 mg of 2C-B*HCl in 400 mL of tap water. Not everything went into solution and some colorless sediment remained, even after heating to about 60 °C.

Any idea what this could be? I checked the usual methods for the synthesis of 2C-B in PiKAL and other sources but it is not evident to me what could remain after converting the freebase to the HCl salt. Even the acetate salt should have a good solubility in water. Any ideas here?

For now, I keep the solution frozen but the next time I will filter of the sediment and try to run a Marquis test on it.

Try adding a few drops of vinegar and it should help any remaining material to go into the solution.
Also, you should be making your solution out of alcohol for long term storage.

 

[drseltsam]

Ballz_Trippington, thanks for the advice. Do you have any idea why adding a bit of acid will force the rest into solution? If there is some freebase left, that would be an oil (which would be on the button of the solution). I guess the people who made this added enough HCl to convert all freebase to the salt.

Thanks for the advice with the alcohol solution for long term storage. I was considering this but I went for water as I do not want to consume alcohol and 2C-B as ethanol has a very strong sedating effect on me, even at low doses. Thus, I created a solution in water and put the bottle in the freezer to prevent it from going bad. What do you think?

Thanks!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also good MDMA will never need more than 150mgs. Doing much more of highly pure MDMA could easily kill you...

No, it can't - couldn't, wouldn't, won't.


The LD-50 for rats is 350 mg/kg even scaling by a factor of 5 makes it 70 mg per kg or 5,000 mg for a 155 lb human. That = 5 grams

In Pihkal , Alexander Shulgin describes a tolerance test where the subjects were given 120-160 mg of MDMA daily for 6 days; on day 6, 160 mg did not even cause pupil dilation. At that point a 300 mg dose would have barely been threshold.

Please don't spread disinformation like that.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Ballz_Trippington, thanks for the advice. Do you have any idea why adding a bit of acid will force the rest into solution? If there is some freebase left, that would be an oil (which would be on the button of the solution). I guess the people who made this added enough HCl to convert all freebase to the salt.

Thanks for the advice with the alcohol solution for long term storage. I was considering this but I went for water as I do not want to consume alcohol and 2C-B as ethanol has a very strong sedating effect on me, even at low doses. Thus, I created a solution in water and put the bottle in the freezer to prevent it from going bad. What do you think?

Thanks!

Your 2C-B hcl should be entirely HCL with no freebase in it. When I've had problems getting the last bit of chemical into solution a bit of vinegar seems to always do the trick.
You should also be able to get your 2C-B to go into a higher concentration per ml with alcohol rather than water and alcohol will prevent bacteria from developing in your solution.
I understand the dilemma about using alcohol if you don't wish to injest it though!

 

[drseltsam]

Your 2C-B hcl should be entirely HCL with no freebase in it. When I've had problems getting the last bit of chemical into solution a bit of vinegar seems to always do the trick.
You should also be able to get your 2C-B to go into a higher concentration per ml with alcohol rather than water and alcohol will prevent bacteria from developing in your solution.
I understand the dilemma about using alcohol if you don't wish to injest it though!

My apologies for my late reply. I did some research and there seems to be a rationale that lowering the pH can help to force salts into solution. Specifically I had a look at this paper: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1016382426347

I will go for citric acid as you can buy it in high quality and use it as a power. First I will test with Marquis if the sediment is really 2C-B, then add some citric acid to force everything into solution.

Do you think storing in water and freezing is not as good as storing in an ethanol water mixture?

Thanks!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

My apologies for my late reply. I did some research and there seems to be a rationale that lowering the pH can help to force salts into solution. Specifically I had a look at this paper: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1016382426347

I will go for citric acid as you can buy it in high quality and use it as a power. First I will test with Marquis if the sediment is really 2C-B, then add some citric acid to force everything into solution.

Do you think storing in water and freezing is not as good as storing in an ethanol water mixture?

Thanks!

Firstly, I must say that it really looks like you are truly doing your due diligence here and I must commend you!!
I do feel that an alcohol solution is superior to water for storage ( in both situations I would still store in the freezer though).
Putting the solution in the freezer should cause it to store less material as it gets cold so you might see that crystals have formed when you take it out of the freezer and you might have to shake it up after it returns to room temperature to get it all back into solution.
I find most chemicals are more soluable in ethanol over water but there are a few exceptions. So you should be able to concentrate it down to a dose being even just a few drops to a couple ml. Not even close to a shot.
I also find that alcohol helps preserve your chemical from degradation over water but that should be less of a problem with Phenethylamines than with Tryptamines.

 

[Xorkoth]

I also recommend alcohol, you make it concentrated so the dose of alcohol is minute, far below the threshold for effects. I'd probably go for 10mg/mL. The main advantage to alcohol is that it's antibiotic/antimicrobial... your solution won't become contaminated after any length of time.

 

[drseltsam]

Firstly, I must say that it really looks like you are truly doing your due diligence here and I must commend you!!
I do feel that an alcohol solution is superior to water for storage ( in both situations I would still store in the freezer though).
Putting the solution in the freezer should cause it to store less material as it gets cold so you might see that crystals have formed when you take it out of the freezer and you might have to shake it up after it returns to room temperature to get it all back into solution.
I find most chemicals are more soluable in ethanol over water but there are a few exceptions. So you should be able to concentrate it down to a dose being even just a few drops to a couple ml. Not even close to a shot.
I also find that alcohol helps preserve your chemical from degradation over water but that should be less of a problem with Phenethylamines than with Tryptamines.

Thanks for the compliment! In my mother tongue there is a word that is very hard to translate. It basically means that you have the maturity to deal with drugs (Drogenmündigkeit). This is what I try to do here. Having a PhD in chemistry helps (not in experimental chemistry though)

I do not think that either water or ethanol has an advantage as a solvent for Phenethylamines when you freeze it. They are both very weak acids and the drug, being protonated by the HCl should no longer react with either for them. It is more important to lower the temperature to reduce the energy for reactions.

Xorkoth: I agree with you and I can see your point. It is a practical reason why I choose to go with 0.25 mg/ml as the smallest bulb pipette I had was 5 ml, which corresponds to 1.25 mg. As I *really* want to do low doses, it was the most practical thing to do. If you freeze the solution 2C-B will crystallize anyways and will go back into solution when you warm it up again.

What worries me is that people report that they made solution with far more than 0.25 mg/ml. When you read PIKAL, Shulgin describes that they dissolved 16 mg in a glass of juice with a little help of heat, which would correspond to something much higher as what I do here. I will test if the stuff that does not go into solution is really 2C-B or not and report back.

 

[drseltsam]

A bit of a different question: as pointed out above, my threshold does seems to be about 1 mg as I tried 1.25 mg as an allergy dose and got a very, very mild response. My girlfriend tried 2.5 and 5 mg and did not get any noticeable effects from it. We both took it for a sexual boost, not to have visuals.

Thus my question: She was thinking of taking 10 mg the next time but she is not sure if that would be too much as she is very inexperienced with psychedelics. What is your experience with people with a higher threshold? Say that her threshold is 10 mg, would that mean that she would get the same effects with 10 mg as I get with 1 mg? Or does it more work like this that once the threshold is reached, she would get the same effects with 10 as I do?

Thanks for your opinions!

 

[drseltsam]

Shall I rephrase the question? Perhaps I was not clear enough?

 

[Solipsis]

It's very hard to compare intensity of effects between individuals, and hopefully she knows what to pay attention to notice subtle threshold effects (it is common for people doing LSD the first time to take a while to realize what the effects are)..

That said, I realize what you are asking, and no I really don't believe the threshold works in such a way that if she crosses it, suddenly she gets the same effects as you do. If she does, it will be because she had trouble noticing subtle effects at lower doses that were noticeable to you because you may have learned to notice them... There is some linearity to the dose-response, or if not, a curve. With some drugs there can be a dosage range where small increments can dramatically increase effects - the knee of a curve (2C-E has this potential but 2C-B not really), but it wouldn't be logical if your girlfriend would catch up to you suddenly in that 5-10 mg range, only if at that point she would have a steep knee in her dose-response curve. That would not be normal or reasonable since drug effects don't tend to vary by that much.. at least the shape of the curve shouldn't.

I think doubling the dose if she really had no noticeable effects is fine and rather typical for titration in such a case, I can't imagine that she would overshoot the empathogenic phase / dose-range of 2C-B right into the psychedelic zone... although for sensitive individuals some of the psychedelic potential may start right about there at 10.

IMO, 2C-B is so friendly and non-threatening that it wouldn't really be a problem, even if 10 mg turns out to be moderately pronounced. It should still be beautiful, pleasant and intimate and not mindfuck-y... possibly she will learn that around 8 is a better bet for her for your purposes, but that's about it.

If you worry about it despite all of this, of course you can opt for the next linear increment and give her 7.5 mg, if it's not worth her fears of psychedelics and you feel like it wouldn't matter because you have fun and good sex with or without the stuff.. so depends on whether it is an investment to try and find this active dose. As it is not expected at all you will have to go over 20 mg or even 15 mg, you are nearly there... so it kind of depends on you insist on the certainty rather than predictions.

Hope you both enjoy..

 

[drseltsam]

Thanks for your very detailed answer and the time you invested writing this.

The question if she notices the effects is interesting and may really contribute. But wouldn't I notice that she is different e.g. easier to stimulate?
I mainly thought that it is due to different biochemistry that we need different doses. For example she has a far better tolerance in drinking alcohol than I have.
Maybe it is a combination of both

 

[drseltsam]

As mentioned above, I tried to dissolve 100 mg of 2C-B*HCl in 400 mL of tap water. Not everything went into solution and some colorless sediment remained, even after heating to about 60 °C.

For now, I keep the solution frozen but the next time I will filter of the sediment and try to run a Marquis test on it.

I used a coffee filter to remove the sediments, air dryed it, and ran a Marquis and a Madelin test of the little white flakes. None of them showed any reaction.

Without a GC/MS I will never know. In the banana republic I life in, drug checking is not even legal. I would need to smuggle the substance to the Netherlands.