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Serious Warning about Ethylphenidate aka Ethylcaine - Danger to your testicles?!

benze

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Feb 18, 2007
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I don't know where best to post this, but think this is really important information about a relatively new drug. Please move it as appropriate.

A very close friend of mine recently fell back onto the stimulant train and has tried a whole host of compounds that offer dopamine fun. This friend actually hates stimulants, and is a big fan of psychedelics, but due to a history of cocaine addiction, sometimes falls off the wagon.

He recently discovered ethylphenidate and thoroughly enjoyed the effects of the drug, as long as he was really drunk first. Sober, this drug just makes his chest hurt. With a bit of alcohol, he says he finds it remarkably similar to cocaine (which he also doesn't enjoy, but still managed to get addicted to.)

But the last few times he has done ethylphenidate, as the compound is wearing off, he has noticed a pain in his testicles, ranging from a dull throb, to excruciating stabs. Leaning towards addiction, he has always readily dismissed the pain as unrelated, despite never before EVER having randomly painful testicles.

But it has become blatantly obvious lately that only ethylphenidate causes this severe testicular pain. He googled "ethylphenidate" and "testicle" and found that he is not the first to experience such things.

One such example is here: http://www.legalhighsforum.com/showthread.php?17351-Ethylphenidate-Ethylcaine-SUPER-DETAILED-Report

I do not know if my friend is causing damage to his testicles, but pain usually serves to inform us of the damage being done to our bodies.

Upon learning he was not the first to experience such things, he immediately flushed his stash and came to report... with aching balls.

No drug is worth ruining your source of testosterone and ability to transmit genes.

Be very careful with this one. The testicle pain is DEFINITELY caused specifically by this compound.

The compound used was a racemic blend of shard-like chunks, verified as ethylphenidate by NMR. My friend is a chemist with access to decent equipment and the know-how to use it.

Be ridiculously careful about deciding to use this. If you think it can't happen, look into nefiracetam. This compound is an analogue of the seemingly incredibly safe piracetam, but causes severe and apparently permanent testicular toxicity. We have no reason to believe that simply because it is an analogue of methylphenidate that it is safe.
 
ethylphenidate is nasty stuff imo/e. definately nothing like cocaine
 
ethylphenidate is nasty stuff imo/e. definately nothing like cocaine

its really rough and this shows with repeated use. cocaine is infinitely better, and coca tea truxillense leaves is my best overall cocaine experience in terms of price and amazing high when brewed very strong, plus no sore throat (smoking crack) or blocked nose (powder cocaine), plus the buyers remorse is less suicide inducing
 
its really rough and this shows with repeated use. cocaine is infinitely better, and coca tea truxillense leaves is my best overall cocaine experience in terms of price and amazing high when brewed very strong, plus no sore throat (smoking crack) or blocked nose (powder cocaine), plus the buyers remorse is less suicide inducing

I think any illegal drug is better than any RC's. I find it goes nice with alcohol. :)
 
If anything this smells like unwarranted paranoia combined with vasoconstriction/"blue balls". The most evidence I can find to support your theory is that methylphenidate delays puberty in some boys. And I do know amphetamine/dopaminergic usage can cause tingling in the extremities if overused.

I haven't heard of any studies suggesting testicular damage with stimulant usage, esp. not methylphenidate, which is one of the safer stims out there. At present I think your friend should examine his seating posture and cease intake of stimulants for a while. Maybe even get it checked out by a doctor. Testicular pain can be a sign of other problems going on in your balls...

Also my right testicle aches, I think I just sat on it for 10 mins and didn’t realise but just in case, its worth a mention. BEWARE OF BALL ACHE.

I don't see this being classed as ethylphenidate-induced trauma in the same mode that nefiracetam causes damage (i.e. actual cellular interference). If you sit on your sack all day of course it's gonna hurt. Even nefiracetam is pretty far away from piracetam, by a lot more than one methylene group...

I think if a drug has no hits on PubMed for your ailment, it's either a really fucking novel problem or it's all in your head.
 
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My old kung fu teacher told me that when he took dexedrine in college it felt like someone had punched him in the balls. It may just be an uncommon stimulant side-effect.
 
^ uh yeah cheers for that

anyway ethylphenidate seems very corrosive as a chemical on both your stomach in high doses and your nose. its rough as hell although i initially though it was smooth. with repeated use its dark side comes out and the high just isn't that good (20 minutes of a wannabe cocaine buzz followed by bodyload/ distinct stomach irritation/panic attacks into the early hours- something i never got from methylphenidate/coacaine). as for ball ache most stimulants and prolonged sitting aren't good for your balls, plus stims generally make the need to empty your balls quite intense, maybe its related to this.
 
I'm with sekio: this is vasoconstriction + post-stimulant anxiety and cardiovascular strain + paranoia. And what the hell is "ethylcaine"?

ebola
 
remember contaminants might be responsible as well. what these chinese labs are pumping out is preposterous. ive had a substance which was 98% pure according to analysis. dissolving it in water resulted in a brown milky liquid. filtering it through some cotton resulted in a transparent light yellow liquid. im really wondering: do they bother to clean their shit at all? some activated charcoal got rid of the last yellow, a recrystallization resulted in nice crystals. few hours work, they couldve easily done that in the lab sigh...

im just saying, just cause a mix of substances causes your balls to hurt, doesnt necessarily allow you to deduce the main ingredient was responsible. that being said, why do people even use those crappy rc's? poor access to proper drugs? im not suggesting anyone should be using cocaine, but methylphenidate can easily be prescribed and seems to both be far superior to ethylphenidate and not have caused any serious cause for concern when it comes to side effects...

if i (would) want a stimulant, i (would) get an oz of street amphetamine from a trusted source, meaning it should be above 10% "purity" lol. Then just basify, pull with diethylether. id dry that, dissolve it in acetone (anhydrous or not, doesnt really make a huge difference in output), slowly drop some orthophosphoric acid in (again, the water doesnt really hurt much, you can still repeat the procedure after evapping the last but of acetone) and see beautiful crystals pop up out of nowhere. wash this a few times or clean by other means and enjoy your pure amphetamine phosphate. :) that would result in a price of <30eur per g here in germany.
 
I'm with sekio: this is vasoconstriction + post-stimulant anxiety and cardiovascular strain + paranoia. And what the hell is "ethylcaine"?

ebola
dont be so quick to judge. this is harm reduction after all and if this occured after a patient has been prescribed ethylphenidate, im pretty sure itd have to be included in the side effects one way or another. id like to agree to you but the chance that these people are onto something is not zero. imho: hands off that crap!

I think if a drug has no hits on PubMed for your ailment, it's either a really fucking novel problem or it's all in your head.
Excuse me, but that is absolutely ABSURD. Rethink what you said there. Take ketamine for example, think long and hard how long it took for bladder and gall bladder problems to occur on pubmed. 2007? That's how many years after the drug was introduced and used in clinical settings all over the world? The dosages some people use stimulants at are ridiculously high. For me this is enough to avoid the shit like the plague. I had it before and it burnt my nose as if I was snorting chilli powder anyway, so fuck that.

anecdotal evidence > no evidence ;)
 
I find it very curious that it took so long for ketamine-induced bladder damge to show up too, but do recall that it seems to be a rather niche problem that keeps itself to people who blow through grams+ a day wthout ceasing usage, and even then it's not much of an issue in terms of risk (look at the # of annual ketamine users and the # with bloody bladders, I would wager it's not even 1 part per million).

methylphenidate can easily be prescribed and seems to both be far superior to ethylphenidate and not have caused any serious cause for concern when it comes to side effects...

Obviously you haven't seen methylphenidate abusers, then. It can produce quite the comedown if you don't know what you're doing.


I'm not here to argue stimulant safety tips here, but I think you'd have to dig pretty hard to come up with a mechanism that would result in ethylphenidate causing actual damage and methylphenidate not.

I bet most of the side f/x are just from the dopaminergic effects making everyone paranoid.

Also, most people who "indulge" in research chemicals can't just walk into their local chemist and buy pure ether/phosphoric acid. It would be wonderful if they could, but it's just not seen in thne world.
 
I find it very curious that it took so long for ketamine-induced bladder damge to show up too, but do recall that it seems to be a rather niche problem that keeps itself to people who blow through grams+ a day wthout ceasing usage, and even then it's not much of an issue in terms of risk (look at the # of annual ketamine users and the # with bloody bladders, I would wager it's not even 1 part per million).



Obviously you haven't seen methylphenidate abusers, then. It can produce quite the comedown if you don't know what you're doing.


I'm not here to argue stimulant safety tips here, but I think you'd have to dig pretty hard to come up with a mechanism that would result in ethylphenidate causing actual damage and methylphenidate not.

I bet most of the side f/x are just from the dopaminergic effects making everyone paranoid.

Also, most people who "indulge" in research chemicals can't just walk into their local chemist and buy pure ether/phosphoric acid. It would be wonderful if they could, but it's just not seen in thne world.

Ether and phosphoric acid are both commonly available here in Germany. If you don't look overly shady (I have a proper beard decorating my face) it can be acquired in the pharmacy. I don't know about other countries laws, but I guess it'll be hard to acquire these chemicals in some countries. Germany is pretty strict when it comes to chemicals, but many pharmacies will make exceptions. At least ether is always a little tricky to acquire ("Iunno what it's for exactly, why are you asking? Is that the ether that people drink to get high? My wife has a nail studio, think she needs it for cleaning equipment or something" "I use phosphoric acid to clean my bathtub, I just can't stand the acetic acid fumes due to my asthma/bronchitis"). Either way, if one wants a safe stimulant, I'd vote for a prescription of methylphenidate/amphetamine (the latter is near impossible to acquire over here), or alternatively street amphetamine which the user performs an extraction on.

I really don't want this to turn into one of those stupid arguements and I apologize if my phrasing seemed a little aggressive earlier. Still I would be very careful with a novel substance that has never seen clinical trials when 2 people start reporting the same sides independently... Even if it's just one more carbon atom on the ethylphenidate, this allows very few deductions about it's effects on your health, unless you're an expert on the pharmacology and even then you won't be able to predict the unpredictable. ;)

Methylphenidate isn't a great drug to binge on, I agree. While it might not have been "obvious" to you, I have experiences with various roa's and dosages and the comedown is indeed pure psychological torture to me personally. Nonetheless most users tolerate it very well as long as they stick to the recommended dosing schedules. If you dose it recreationally, I agree that the comedown can be hell (worse than cocaine to me), but nonetheless it's safety is established unlike that of ethylphenidate... This simply cannot be argued over and I hope we are not heading there.

I will stick to what I said: Hands off the stuff! I explained earlier that the sides might not necessarily be due to the substance in question itself, but instead related to impurities or cutting agents. Assuming that it is a nocebo effect or a physiological reaction to high dopaminergic activity leads nowhere (btw I don't think we have dopamine receptors in our testicles at all, if I'm not mistaken it'd be an indirect effect at best). Wild speculations what the substance has done in those two users' bodies are just that - pure speculation. This is a harm reduction board and when we find anecdotal evidence about a substance we should not just play it down like that. That's the job of pharmaceutical companies who are making money with these substances. That being said, I simply don't understand why anyone would ignore these reports and simply attribute them to a nocebo or dopaminergic activity. Imho that is plain reckless and not in the spirit of harm reduction. Then again you have a good point about clean stimulants not being available to the public... <3

If someone really is very experienced with stimulant use and feels he has an advantage in taking ethylphenidate over another stimulant that is available to that person, then I won't try to argue with that person. But we need to keep in mind that there simply is no reliable information about the safety profile of this substance. That is a motherfucking fact.

Arguing over the ketamine analogy will lead nowhere either. I'll skip naming whatever arguements I had laid out, but in the end it'll feel like a game of squash without contributing to the subject matter. I was just trying to draw an analogy.
 
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my experience of ehtylphenidate is that in a large dose 70mg oral (i was fine with that amount of oral methylphenidate in the past and more) its quite physically harsh to your body- my somach was terrible the next day and my nose was burnt. never again.

maybe its safe for your balls BUT they are kind of important as is the BLADDER (ketamine) so even if only a small number of users experience these different problems it is a big cause for concern due to the importance of the area experiencing the pain. and ketamine knowledge annecdotally originally began with bladder "ket pains" after binges before research was done into it after people started ending up in hospitals with incontinence.

better drugs OUT THERE. coca tea for example (not great for your heart but in moderation easy on the mind and a great source of concentration at low doses.
 
Probably another case where one isomer has the good effects and another one has unwanted effects. This is a huge problem with RCs since, even if you are lucky enough to get a relatively pure chemical that is correctly identified, you still have no idea what synthesis was used and therefore what isomers of the substance might be present. When d-threo-methylphenidate started coming out, it was obviously a much better drug than standard ritalin. One of the RC vendors was actually admittedly selling l-threo-ethylphenidate for a while. Anyone who knowingly bought that crap got something that was very unimpressive.

I wonder what the likelihood that a chinese lab who makes this stuff even knows what isomer they are ending up with? How expert are these guys? That would be interesting to know.
 
I wonder what the likelihood that a chinese lab who makes this stuff even knows what isomer they are ending up with?

100 percent. Procedures that are enantiomer specific, enantiomer preserving, and those that produce racemates are quite obvious. If someone can handle synthesizing ethylphenidate, they can handle navigating stereochemistry.

ebola
 
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