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    Fentanyl vs morphine (no IV) 
    #1
    hi i'm keen to try one of the above but can't decide whats going to suit me best... I have a low tolerance and normally snort 30mg of oxycontin at a time... clearly fentanyl is much stronger (they're the 100mcg) but I can also get my hands on 100mg morphine sulphate pills. i've seen the opiod conversion table so I know both are much stronger than the oxy i'm doing now so would need to adjust accordingly. After reading royalty of painkillers and other threads i couldn't come up with a clear answer - and many of the posts referred to IVing which I'm not interested in (sounds too good - don't trust myself!) but am keen to snort, smoke, swallow, plug as required... love the oxy high but keen try something different. what do you guys recommend?

    my main concern about fentanyl is how to administer safely without od and my worry about morphine (from many of the posts I read) is it won't get me buzzed. i've mostly done oxy, a little codeine and smoked some h - loved them all... been a long term stoner so love the warm, euphoric buz. because i can get strong morphine it doesn't seem to me that the difference in potency should be the deciding factor - more important is what will give me the best high given i won't IV... and if fentanyl is the way to go how do I go about taking it safely given my low tolerance? oh and i'm not interested in using the patches as designed - as fun as it sounds I can't be messed up for 3 days straight... any advice/experiences would be greatly appreciated.
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    #2
    Bluelighter Venrak's Avatar
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    Due to fentanyl's sub-milligram dose range, the apparent lack of euphoria caused by the substance, and your tolerance, I would opt for the morphine.

    There really is no safe way for you to dose fentanyl with your tolerance level.
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    #3
    Probably most ppl would agree morphine.
    Many would also say to plug it.

    I think you jumping to fentanyl is a horrible idea
    It's like a kid riding a bike for the first time, and trying to compete in the X games.
    They'd be screwed and probably F*** themselves up pretty good in the process.

    Oxy's a much more euphoric high than M or F.
    Especially if you don't IV.
    Which I don't either.

    Be careful kids!
    token
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    #4
    Bluelighter madog11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenname View Post
    Probably most ppl would agree morphine.
    Many would also say to plug it.

    I think you jumping to fentanyl is a horrible idea
    It's like a kid riding a bike for the first time, and trying to compete in the X games.
    They'd be screwed and probably F*** themselves up pretty good in the process.

    Oxy's a much more euphoric high than M or F.
    Especially if you don't IV.
    Which I don't either.

    Be careful kids!
    token
    ^^ This. Morphine is a total waste orally.
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    #5
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Morphine all the way! Stronger effects (more euphoria, more nodding, etc) and longer lasting.
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    #6
    If your only choices are fentanyl or morphine go with the morphine. Being just a little bit off on your dose with fentanyl can literally kill you. That 100mcg patch has the potential to be as strong as 1440mg oxy or 2160mg morphine.
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    #7
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPC123 View Post
    If your only choices are fentanyl or morphine go with the morphine. Being just a little bit off on your dose with fentanyl can literally kill you. That 100mcg patch has the potential to be as strong as 1440mg oxy or 2160mg morphine.
    Where are you getting your measurements from? Morphine is 2x more potent than oxycodone through the IV route, while oxycodone is only 1.5x more potent than morphine through the oral route - it isn't actually more potent orally either, it just has a higher BA. Drug for drug, morphine is more potent than oxycodone.
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    #8
    The measurements are for oral oxycodone and oral morphine. It takes 2160mg oral morphine to equate to 1440mg oral oxycodone due to morphines poor oral bioavailability and oxycodones almost perfect oral bioavailability. Conservatively oxy is 1.5 times stronger than morphine when administred orally, and morphine is 1.5 times stronger than oxycodone when administered intramuscularly. The OP is working with morphine phosphate pills, so I kept everything oral for comparison sake.
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    #9
    Peace
    Quote Originally Posted by goodtimes... View Post
    my main concern about fentanyl is how to administer safely without od and my worry about morphine (from many of the posts I read) is it won't get me buzzed.
    I appreciate how intelligent everyone is here..
    but I don't understand why members insist on trying to outsmart one another.

    It doesn't seem as though the OP is looking to study the oral BA of oxy vs. morphine.

    I'm pretty sure he/she just wants to catch a buzz w/o od'ing.

    token
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    #10
    I only compared fentanyl to oxy and morphine to give the OP an idea of exactly how dangerous a 100mcg fentanyl patch can be. It can't really be overstated. I'd hate for the person the stick half a patch in their cheek only to pass out minutes later and die minutes after that.
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    #11
    I would not recomend morphine unless you iv it. I have had some very dissapointing experiences with it. Took about 90mg feeling nothin but nodding. It also gave me stomach cramps
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    #12
    Thanks to everyone for their replies.

    Given the the dosage dangers of fentanyl especially with my lack of tolerance i think morphine is the clear winner - although i see that morphine doesn't work that well for everyone.... At the end of the day I'd prefer to get a disappointing buz then od!

    ok so as far as dosing goes...

    if oxy is 1.5 times stronger than morphine and i usually take 30mg oxy then 50mg or half a ms should be ok to start (if swallowed)? What about if plugging? thanks again everyone for your help.
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    #13
    You will not feel much with 50mg. I weigh only 115lbs and i took 90mg but ony felt a weak buzz. I also had no tolerance
    -correction, i snorted 90mg after an experience in which i ate 60mg and felt nothing
    Last edited by Tortiees; 12-04-2012 at 02:39. Reason: Correction
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    #14
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodtimes... View Post
    Thanks to everyone for their replies.

    Given the the dosage dangers of fentanyl especially with my lack of tolerance i think morphine is the clear winner - although i see that morphine doesn't work that well for everyone.... At the end of the day I'd prefer to get a disappointing buz then od!

    ok so as far as dosing goes...

    if oxy is 1.5 times stronger than morphine and i usually take 30mg oxy then 50mg or half a ms should be ok to start (if swallowed)? What about if plugging? thanks again everyone for your help.
    Plugging morphine is stronger than oral oxycodone. Here is the deal with oxycodone vs morphine. Oxycodone IS NOT more potent than morphine. When given at equal BA (100% ), morphine is 2x more potent - 10 mg IV morphine = 20 mg IV oxycodone. Oxycodone just happens to have a much higher oral BA, so therefore because of the way the drugs are metabolized, you would require more morphine than oxycodone orally (30 mg morphine PO = 20 mg oxycodone PO). Plugging morphine gives you a higher BA than oral morphine, so plugging morphine is slightly stronger than oral ingestion of oxycodone.
    Last edited by kokaino; 12-04-2012 at 03:32.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by goodtimes... View Post
    What about if plugging?
    On plugging morphine:

    "The Bioavailability of Rectally Administered Morphine", Torsten Jonsson, Christian Broen Christensen, Henrik Jordening, Carsten Frølund
    Abstract: Plasma concentrations of morphine were followed for 24 hours in eight patients after intravenous and rectal administration of 10 mg morphine chloride. The plasma levels of morphine were determined by a sensitive and specific radioimmunoassay based upon an extraction procedure which separates morphine from its major polar metabolites. The bioavailability of morphine after rectal administration was found to be 53.3 ± 17.8% (mean ± S.D.). Peak concentrations of 16.3 ± 8.7 ng ml-1 were reached after 59 ± 16 min. The study indicates that first pass elimination of morphine may be partially avoided by rectal administration.
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    #16
    Bluelighter GABAking's Avatar
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    A lot of people don't really like the high from fentanyl, or at least think it's one of the worst of the opiates. I personally love em, and those 100 mcg patches are so good....

    But with your tolerance, I wouldn't step near it without really being careful. Really.

    At the same time, I think morphine is a waste unless it's IVed (hospital setting, I don't IV). Never plugged it though. I had my first opiate plugging experience today and it was amazing. I was really, really impressed
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    #17
    Bluelighter epiks's Avatar
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    Fentanyl is like you said, insanely strong. Probably a little too strong for you just yet..Enjoy the oxy bliss while you have such a low tolerance! I'd KILL for that! And as far as morphine goes..I've never known anyone (including myself) that got any desirable effects from it.
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    #18
    Bluelighter Beefy's Avatar
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    I just got a 75mg patch and i think i'm regreting not smoking it. I'm on 80mg of done a day. today i missed my dose. so a friend of mine had a patch so i got one. I checked one of the conversion charts and it says it's about the same dose as 80mg of 'Done. I need about 300mg of done to nod off. So i'm wondering if i should just take out the patch, make a little cut and smoke the goo to get a good buzz since i don't think that not much is going to come from it. It's been like 2.5 hrs already of me wearing it and i don't feel much.
    Should i just smoke it? Is it too late? and then later just buy a couple of bags of diesel to make up the difference?
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    #19
    It takes at least 7-8 hours of wearing a fentanyl patch to begin to feel it. I did a write up on it in another thread. Let me copy and paste here.

    Say you take a full 50mcg patch, this is (very roughly) what happens. This is VERY rough, just to give you an idea of the process. The drug releases from the patch into fat cells. After 8-10 hours is begins releasing into the blood stream from fat while still releasing into fat from the patch. About 2 hours after it releases into your blood you metabolize it and poof, it's gone. So the drug only lasts a couple of hours, but the process is long and relatively complex compared to just popping a pill.

    Hour
    1 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 50mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    2 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 100mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    3 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 150mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    4 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 200mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    5 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 250mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    6 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 300mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    7 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 350mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    8 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 400mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    9 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
    10 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 50mcg in blood
    11 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 0mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    12 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    13 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    14 - 50mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 450mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood

    ***Here we'll assume you take off the patch or it runs out of drug (in reality the patch will keep absorbing 50mcg per hour into fat for 48-72 hours).

    15 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 400mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    16 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 350mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    17 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 300mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    18 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 250mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    19 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 200mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    20 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 150mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    21 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 100mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    22 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 50mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    23 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 50mcg released into blood, 0mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 100mcg in blood
    24 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 0mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 50mcg in blood
    25 - 0mcg absorbed by fat, 0mcg released into blood, 0mcg total in fat, 50mcg metabolized, 0mcg in blood
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    #20
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madog11 View Post
    ^^ This. Morphine is a total waste orally.

    LMAO.........no its not, thing is your body doesnt metabolize it like others.
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    #21
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPC123 View Post
    On plugging morphine:

    "The Bioavailability of Rectally Administered Morphine", Torsten Jonsson, Christian Broen Christensen, Henrik Jordening, Carsten Frølund
    Abstract: Plasma concentrations of morphine were followed for 24 hours in eight patients after intravenous and rectal administration of 10 mg morphine chloride. The plasma levels of morphine were determined by a sensitive and specific radioimmunoassay based upon an extraction procedure which separates morphine from its major polar metabolites. The bioavailability of morphine after rectal administration was found to be 53.3 ± 17.8% (mean ± S.D.). Peak concentrations of 16.3 ± 8.7 ng ml-1 were reached after 59 ± 16 min. The study indicates that first pass elimination of morphine may be partially avoided by rectal administration.
    That's a range of 36-71 mg BA rectally. It says it right on Wiki with the exact same study cited. It's an old study, more recent studies have given the rectal administration of morphine slightly higher . Either way, at those BA levels, rectal morphine would be stronger than oral oxycodone.
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    #22
    Potentially, not absolutely. This is the problem. The deviation for morphine is greater than that for oxycodone, which means for some morphine will have a much lower BA (rectally) than oxycodone will have orally. For some it will be the same, for some better. All you can say for certain is that rectal administration of morphine will have a higher BA than oral administration. Anything else is purely speculation, and entirely dependant on the metabolic idiosyncrasies of the individual.
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    #23
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPC123 View Post
    Potentially, not absolutely. This is the problem. The deviation for morphine is greater than that for oxycodone, which means for some morphine will have a much lower BA (rectally) than oxycodone will have orally. For some it will be the same, for some better. All you can say for certain is that rectal administration of morphine will have a higher BA than oral administration. Anything else is purely speculation, and entirely dependant on the metabolic idiosyncrasies of the individual.
    I agree. Assuming the BA is on the lower end then oral oxycodone may be the better choice. But if we assume that the BA will be on the higher end, then the rectal morphine will be stronger.
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    #24
    Well just to tidy up the story - I was actually able to avoid morphine for a while as I could swap them for oxys. usually have 2 x 30mgs oxys over a night. so couldnt get any oxys this weekend so despite advice otherwise i snorted half a 100mg ms contin - nothing really, not close to even 10mg oxy in my opinion. then i smoked the other half on foil (haha yeah i know i shouldnt have done that either but i read somewhere you could!) anyway nothing from that either - shit. next day i decided to plug half but couldnt get access to a syringe so tried the toilet paper method: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/1...ethod-Revealed!

    I plugged 50mg - felt a bit floaty soon after but not really high and nothing like the oxy buz. left it an hour and a half then plugged the second half. same feeling (more like sedation than euphoric) but just intensified a bit, also a reasonable bit of nausea (did i have too much?), that maintained probably for like 6 hours at which stage it really started to kick in.. quite itchy, nice warm buz, body tingling -a bit nauseas but not too bad...

    maybe the nausea was because i had too much - or maybe i should have taken an an anti nausea. anyway, from my two experiences i much prefer the oxy high. much cleaner, more euphoric, comes on a lot quicker!! sounds like iv morphine is a different story.

    why would the morphine take so long to kick in? could it be that i just dont respond to morphine very well?

    thanks for everyones feedback - who ever said "stick with the oxy" was right!
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    #25
    Bluelighter opiatekrzy's Avatar
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    what is the hyp with fentanyl besides its powerful painkiller effects and extreme side effefcts (nausea, vomiting, intense tiching, hiccups)?? it produces to euphoria whatsoever!!! morphine on the other hand provides euphoria, keepd me high all fucking day, event he next day i feel the after glow, fentanyl is powerful, non euphoric and only good for putting people under and killing pain with alot of side effects and no euphoria
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