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Opioids Tramadol IR and Tramadol ER

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Xamkou

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Jun 14, 2010
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I usually take the 50mg Tramadol capsules to get high. I have come into posession of 100mg extended release tablets. What's the difference in terms of effects?

Also, in terms effects, is 2x 50mg IR equivalent to 1x 100mg ER?
 
I actually found the ER 100mg capsules, once you crush them up and parachute them at least, to provide a much nicer high than the 50mg IR pills. Basically same effects, but the ER seems to feel a bit "cleaner" if that makes any sense. Like, they're just as stimulating, if not a little more so, than IR, but it's a very subtle stimulation that really lends itself well to exercise. And the opioid feeling also seems a bit stronger, if more subtle as well.

I'd take 400mg of the crushed up ER over 400mg of the normal IR any day.

Technically, I do believe 2x 50mg IR would be the equivalent of 1x 100mg ER (assuming you crush it up; if you don't crush it up the different is obviously that it will take longer to fully effect you and the effects will be more mild although they will continue over a great amount of time)
 
You're very welcome. ENJOY! (and maybe even come back and let us know how it's working out for you)
 
It's interesting why the ER has this effect (I noticed it also---I crushed the pill with my teeth and it was a rotten taste but I got used to it). I suspect it is due in part to the racemic mixture used: one enantiomer has a 4 fold greater affinity for the mu opioid receptor than the other but the combined affinity of the racemic mixture is 1/6000th of morphine to the mu opioid receptor. And in part (consequently?) due to the rate at which this racemic mixture is converted into its major metabolite (M1) O-desmethyltramadol which has a 30 fold potency over the (+)- tramadol.

O-desmethyltramadol is 1/200th the potency of morphine in terms of binding affinity to the mu opioid receptor, whereas the racemic mixture of "tramadol" is 1/6000th. The former also as a longer half-life of 9 hours as opposed to 6 hours for tramadol itself. The M1 metabolite at any point represents 10-20% of the tramadol in normal metabolisers (i.e., without a defective CYP2D6). So if you take 400mg of tramadol, the maximum daily recommended dose (for IR I think this is fine), you have about 40-80mg of the M1 metabolite, which equals to about 0.2% to 0.4% of a mg of morphine?!? So you can see why in general it has a low abuse potential, and for those who manage to get the CYP2D6 going (there are inducers) you can feel more euphoric and perhaps consequently get addicted. Who knows?

This is all old hat, and can be gotten from the Wikipedia page on tramadol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol). I just wrote about that to summarise what I think is interesting about tramadol. I'll leave with this final quote (one of the few sentences there without a citation): "The extended-release formulation of tramadol—which, amongst other factors—was intended to be more abuse-deterrent than the instant release) allegedly possesses more abuse liability than the instant release formulation."

--

I myself have never really euphoric on tramadol IR (I've tried a variety of brands). But I did on the ER crushed with my teeth. Hmm.

Also I am not sure 100% sure, but if you look at the seizure reports on Erowid, especially at low doses, it is Ultram that is causing the problem. At high doses it doesn't seem to matter. Thus the 400mg limit. It actually starts around 500mg but below 500mg it seems to be aggravated by another factor. Males tend to ingest higher doses and consequently tend to report higher seizure rates than females.

I have had one seizure I can attribute to tramadol (I was pushing the 400mg limit---I may have taken only 400mg that "day" but I might've exceeded that by 50-100mg if you count it as a 24 hour period---I really wasn't keeping careful track is my point). This came after one seizure I can attribute to hyponatremia caused by drinking too much water only (due to what? :). The first two seizures were a year apart. Before both seizures I had stopped drinking alcohol for several months (though I was physically addicted to alcohol). A year later approximately I had one more seizure, this time I was drinking a LOT. I then drank 24/7, had all kinds of things happen (including seizures), went to detox and treatment and have stayed clean from alcohol for 3 years. Never want to touch it again. I've also been on a low dose of carbamazapene for 3 years and have not had a single seizure (crossed fingers).

toothpastedog said:
I actually found the ER 100mg capsules, once you crush them up and parachute them at least, to provide a much nicer high than the 50mg IR pills. Basically same effects, but the ER seems to feel a bit "cleaner" if that makes any sense. Like, they're just as stimulating, if not a little more so, than IR, but it's a very subtle stimulation that really lends itself well to exercise. And the opioid feeling also seems a bit stronger, if more subtle as well.

I'd take 400mg of the crushed up ER over 400mg of the normal IR any day.

Technically, I do believe 2x 50mg IR would be the equivalent of 1x 100mg ER (assuming you crush it up; if you don't crush it up the different is obviously that it will take longer to fully effect you and the effects will be more mild although they will continue over a great amount of time)
Click to expand...
 
I've had two seizures from Tramadol, both caused by doses >500mg. Both times I bit the fuck out of my tounge aswell, ouch! :(

Thanks for the advice people and the stories of your own experiences. I too am finding the ER not only longer lasting, but also more euphoric! Awesome. :)
 
Well that's nice to hear OP! As far as seizing goes, whether or not you're at risk has at least as much to do with any history you have with seizures than it does your dose. Someone who's prone to or has had seizures in the past is at risk even in the 150-250mg range, while someone who isn't prone to an has not had a seizure will most likely not have problems with 300-400mg. Again, it is very important to stress the need to start low with a drug like this, as just because not having had a seizure before doesn't guarantee against having on in the future, especially if the tramadol is mixed with other drugs such as amphetamines or alcohol.

Anyhoo, glad to hear you're doing well op!
 
I totally respect how a lot of people DO like Tramadol. But for me, even within this thread you see that Tramadol really does induce seizures. My only response: FUCK THAT!!

I'm far more nervous of suffering a seizure on my 120mile daily commute from higher doses of Tramadol than I am curious about using 400ishmg doses to achieve a high. I simply prefer Oxycodone for that purpose. Seizures are not something I ever intend to mess around with.

And unfortunately, Tramadol never did anything for my pain. But my Dr's kept it prescribed to give a minor boost to the other opiates I've been on. *shrugs* I wish I had good o-dmt metabolism so I could enjoy the stuff, but apparently I'm unlucky.
 
That's a drag se, srry to hear that. Well, at least, given what you know about how your body reacts to it, you're using tramadol safely, in a mature way. Always nice to find people doing such with their drugs/medicine :)
 
If you are chasing the stimulant high, crush the ER.

If you are chasing the opiate high, however, pop the ER whole. The slower, steady release of tramadol in to the bloodstream leads to much more O-Desmethyltramadol being produced.
 
^Interesting, never did that. I'd have to take a good bit more. Have you ever mixed ER and IR? I'd be interest to see what that was like, as I imagine I (no issue with seizures at slightly higher doses to date) could take more ER (as in like 300mg) and also take a relatively hefty dose of IR (200mg). Your thoughts (just to note I would not recommend this to someone who doesn't have a well established relationship with tramadol, given the rather high dosages involved)?

I found that crushing it worked well for me in terms of both types of tram high, although I can totally see what you mean (as crushing the ER was a little more "speedy" (in a non amp way) than IR (although even crushed ER was still more opioid-y feeling too)).
 
toothpastedog said:
Your thoughts (just to note I would not recommend this to someone who doesn't have a well established relationship with tramadol, given the rather high dosages involved)?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify again to other BL'ers, we're not recommending taking more than 250mg at a time, as that has been shown to cause seizures in non-epileptics.

That being said, I would pop the 300mg all at once, and take 50mg booster doses starting at +1:00, every 15 minutes, so 200mg over 2 hours from t+1:00 to t+3:00.

I know you said you don't get seizures from high doses of tramadol, but please take a muscle relaxing benzo, like Valium or Klonopin (not Xanax), to reduce seizure risk, it could happen to anyone. I would say take at least 5mg of diazepam with this, 10-15mg if you have a tolerance to benzos.

Of course, no alcohol, nicotine, or stimulants with this kind of dose. Nothing that can lower seizure threshold further.

I've never taken more than 150mg tramadol, though, as I suspect I have CYP2D6 polymorphism.
 
Lol, yea, all things considered I should be more careful, but I do take some precautions (i.e. I won't drink or take powerful stims like amps and methamp or coke, but I will smoke and have (no more than one medium sized cup of) coffee). Your method sounds pretty similar to what I was thinking. With the 300mg of ER, you don't crush it up?

That's what I was most curious about... given it's supposed (makes sense to me) have more of a traditional opioid feel to it when the ERs aren't crushed (and we're talking about the same small little 100mg ER ball pill things, right?).
 
I've never taken ER Tramadol, and I meant to say take 25mg (half tablet) every +15 minutes, further reducing seizure risk and increasing O-Des conversion.

If you're going to drink coffee and smoke, hold off until you can find some Valium, Restoril, Klonopin, or 200mg of Lyrica, seriously.

It has more of an opiate feel because of more O-Des production when not crushed, and less of a stimulant feel. I personally love the stimulant feel from tramadol, so I've never staggered my doses. I just pop 100mg-150mg IR at once and I'm high for about 10 hours.
 
Yea, I hear you. It is good advice, but I've never had any problem and a lot of experience using it, so I'm not too worried.
 
I have 100mg tramadol tablets. A couple of days ago I had 2 at once and felt absolutely awesome for about 12 hours.
Since then, I've been reading up on staggered doses to enhance the effect. I plan on ingesting 200-250mg over a couple of hours, first 100mg, half an hour later - 50mg, then another 50mg (and possibly another 50mg, see how I feel).
If I break a 100mg ER tablet in half, will the ER mechanism stay intact? I like the long high.

And another thing - at some point I want to have some oxycontin as well.
I have some opiate tolerance, how much/when would you recommend after first ingesting tramadol?

Thanks :)
 
Yes seizures can be a common occurancr w high mgs of Tramadol depending of course on a person's body mass index, weight, matabolism, etc etc. As doctors are backing up from other opioids, Tramadol is the catch all. I have a problem even as a physician ( thought not a pain management) of giving opioid to people when they really need them including myself (oxy), then if they abuse them cutting them off cold turkey. People need relief, and yet to to streets n possibly overdose on Heroin. Sad cycle. I say, keep feeding to people already on them and the new generation start them out on less potent. Going backwards causes to many problems w other drugs, crime etc etc. Stop the knee jerk government reaction Bullshit.
-Dr. Trevor. (and legalize weed) far better
 
^this thread is really old, pleas echeck the dates before posting the next time, so I'm going to close this thread

Taking anything over 250mg can be really dangerous as tramadol lowers the seizure threashold
 
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