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Thread: Timeframe for withdrawal symptoms to level out when substituting milder opiates?

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    Timeframe for withdrawal symptoms to level out when substituting milder opiates? 
    #1
    I was taking around 80mg of oxycodone a day for about 5 years, haven't taken any in over a week, my main help in quitting has been around 15 grams/day of kratom + 8mg loperamide.

    What I'm noticing is - though I feel fine after taking them, at distance from those doses I'm still feeling withdrawals. I'm dosing in the morning shortly after waking, and when I get home from work, half each time of what I listed daily for the kratom and loperamide. So I'm noticing that first thing in the morning and towards the end of the work day I'm starting to get all the classic withdrawal symptoms still.

    Now I'm well aware what I've done isn't like a cold turkey withdrawal, I'm still taking two substances that have opiate receptor activity. Maybe that's something someone might have a ballpark estimate on, though I know it's tough to make the comparison - how would the kratom and loperamide I'm taking compare to the amount of opiate receptor stimulation 80mg of oxycodone would per day, maybe 1/3rd?

    Am I being too impatient expecting my acute withdrawals and opiate tolerance to have leveled out with the doses of these substances after this amount of time? I read some thread about loperamide withdrawal and it almost scares me a bit that the reason I have, on the whole, been able to leave the oxy with fairly mild withdrawals compared to cold turkey was because I've substituted things that match that level of opiate receptor activity almost? I don't think so, but I guess even if that's the case it's easier to taper down from two legal substances that don't have that euphoria that hooks you back after a long day and dares you to take more than sticking to your taper.

    I know just dumping everything would be fastest, but maybe I'm a wimp, I've tried it before and just give up after about two days. I'd rather suffer mild symptoms for longer, but still be functional, I just want to feel sure I'm still making progress in lowering my body's opiate dependence by the routine I'm following.

    Thanks,
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    #2
    You're definitely lowering your body's opiate dependence by the substitution your on. To be honest, the loperamide isn't doing much in the regard of attaching to your opiate receptors, hence not being able to cross the blood brain barrier. The Kratom is what is keeping your worst withdrawal symptoms at bay. And if you truly want to stop altogether eventually, which it sounds like you do to me, then wean yourself off of the Kratom. If you don't like just "dumping everything at once", as you said, and that's how I am also, wean off of the Kratom as much as possible. If you still feel this isn't solving much in relation to your physical and mental cravings and condition towards opiate addiction, look into suboxone. If you have the resources and the money for it, I would definitely go the suboxone route, as it has helped countless addicts, like me get off of their opiate of choice. Good luck man, this will probably be a life long fight. Eighty mg of oxy a day, as you were taking, is high, in my personal opinion and experience, so I commend you alot for steering clear of this and trying to better yourself. God bless you man, and if you need anymore help or even to talk a little about anything, PM me. Peace.
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    #3
    Maybe a little off topic, but first post. How long does to it take to get addicted to opiates of you're using regularly? I've only taken a 5 mg oxycodone(chewed it) and got nothing. I'm gonna try parachuting half of a 10 mg and snorting the other. Any suggestions for first time snorting?
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingjones View Post
    Maybe a little off topic, but first post. How long does to it take to get addicted to opiates of you're using regularly? I've only taken a 5 mg oxycodone(chewed it) and got nothing. I'm gonna try parachuting half of a 10 mg and snorting the other. Any suggestions for first time snorting?
    In my opinion, it can take as little as a week to get 'physically' addicted to where you might notice some mild withdrawals for a day or 2. Now, mentally, you could become addicted after your first time, as I know right after experiencing my first dose of mdma, I was definitely emotionally and mentally addicted knowing that it was going to become a big part of my life, for better and for worse. Opiates, in my experience, were a subtle addiction, and after a few months, I started noticing that I could no longer just "take it or leave it" but I actually needed it to ward off withdrawal. Once you go down the road of opiates, it will, most of the time, become the primary desire in your life. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones though, that can take it or leave it. Doubtful but maybe. And for your first time snorting, I would wait and see if you feel anything when you orally took it. If it still feels too weak, and you are going to snort it regardless, then take it easy, and snort small increments, until it holds you or you get the euphoria you wanted. Just be safe dude. Please be safe.
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    #5
    I must point out that loperamide, despite popular conception of it, CAN help significantly with withdrawal symptoms. Megadoses of it actually do allow enough to cross the blood brain barrier, thus providing a psychoactive effect. I now this from experience, and I know many others have done this to. Take fifty to 100 mg of loperamide. I know it's a lot, but only small amounts pass through the BBB, so you need a lot. Be prepared with laxatives for later. It's action seems to be quite long, all day really, providing a very sedating and mildly euphoric state which is highly amenable to the amelioration of withdrawal symptoms. Give it a shot. Btw, tolerance rises exponentially fast, you can only use this trick for maybe three days.
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    #6
    Even better than loperamide, you cold make poppy seed tea from seeds bought at a bulk store. Tis tea contains morphine, amongst other active alkaloids. When I quit injecting dilaudid, it saved me from needing rehab or methadone/suboxone. It saved my life, in all honesty. Just take as much as you need to eliminate any unpleasant symptoms. You can take one to two a day for maintenance and taper it slowly over time. Trust me, I'd stake my life on the amazing utility of seed tea.

    If you're interested, PM me, I'll tell you how to make the best tea and how to use it properly for your purposes as opposed to inadvertently coming to abuse it rather than use it like cheap OTC methadone. I guarantee my methods efficiency and value. No one quitting an opiate addiction has to go through straight up full on withdrawal. poppy seed tea can help anyone in need of this kind of aid; it should be every opiate lover's best friend.
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    #7
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    49
    i actually just logged on to start a post about loperamide as i am coming off of suboxone. even though i have tapered to .5mgs and now im 3 days off im very sensitive to withdrawals and ive been getting through it with nutrition and supplements. but this morning i woke up and decided to give loperamide a try because my stomach was killing me and all the nutrition i was giving my body felt like it was going right through me. so i went to the store and bought it and during that whole time i was sweating alot and had alot of anxiety, normal withdrawal symptoms. went home and took about 8mgs of loperamide and few hours later i felt 90 percent better. almost normal

    my concerns are also from threads ive read saying that withdrawal from loperamide is just as bad or nearly as bad as normal opiate withdrawal or what ive been going through with suboxone, whatever it may be... people say they are sweating, anxious, getting crawling skin everything even sleeping problems. i dont want to just switch to lope because i want to be free of this. also i dont want to hurt the tapering ive done with suboxone by taking lope and making me more physically dependent. any input would be nice. i guess my idea is use low amount of lope and wait for the mental wds to subside then deal with the physical issues from the lope but it seems like to me and most people ive read about that the withdrawal from lope is almost just as bad as coming of low dose of opiates. idk. im very torn at this point
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    #8
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    49
    i actually just logged on to start a post about loperamide as i am coming off of suboxone. even though i have tapered to .5mgs and now im 3 days off im very sensitive to withdrawals and ive been getting through it with nutrition and supplements. but this morning i woke up and decided to give loperamide a try because my stomach was killing me and all the nutrition i was giving my body felt like it was going right through me. so i went to the store and bought it and during that whole time i was sweating alot and had alot of anxiety, normal withdrawal symptoms. went home and took about 8mgs of loperamide and few hours later i felt 90 percent better. almost normal

    my concerns are also from threads ive read saying that withdrawal from loperamide is just as bad or nearly as bad as normal opiate withdrawal or what ive been going through with suboxone, whatever it may be... people say they are sweating, anxious, getting crawling skin everything even sleeping problems. i dont want to just switch to lope because i want to be free of this. also i dont want to hurt the tapering ive done with suboxone by taking lope and making me more physically dependent. any input would be nice. i guess my idea is use low amount of lope and wait for the mental wds to subside then deal with the physical issues from the lope but it seems like to me and most people ive read about that the withdrawal from lope is almost just as bad as coming of low dose of opiates. idk. im very torn at this point
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    #9
    Yes, loperamide has a fast rate of tolerance acquisition, and accompanying this a rater unpleasant withdrawal. Stick to using it for 3-4 days in large doses. Poppy seeds are far cheaper, more effective, and, IME, less sedating and more euphoric. Switch to them if you worry about loperamides flaws.
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