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    Best Rx Opiate for Oral Use besides OxyCodone? 
    #1
    What's up guys, hope you are all feeling well. So I have had 4 failed shoulder surgeries & been prescribed 90 RoxyCodone a month since I was 16. Recently I had to switch doctors & the doctor is very caring, but totally against OxyCodone, period. Will literally prescribe anything besides that (even Fet patches which I denied). He gave me 30 10mg Opana ER's to try. I have always taken my medication orally (Never used a needle, never will, hate snorting shit as well). Since I was very annoyed & everybody said snorting is the only way that worked, I did. They defiantly work, but they make my chest really tight & the best way to describe the buzz is a "Paranoid OxyCodone" which I dislike. I have my Appt with my doctor next week, knowing that I take my medication orally, besides OxyCodone, what is the best oral-high (I'm not here for moral issues, thank you though, when my medication is gone, its gone till the next month, i have never obtained anything illegally & never will). Thank you so much, appreciate your help. Peace.
     

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    #2
    If oxycodone was holding you, you basically have two options. The first is to take a step back and try hydrocodone or morphine. This will require increasing the amount you are taking, and you may find you have more side effects like itchness, constipation, nausea, etc. The second option is to take a step up to stronger meds. Besides oxymorphone which you mentioned there is also hydromorphone. There is no reason at all that you should have to snort them. Your doctor will adjust the equivelent dosage from oxycodone intending that you take them orally and you can. You might not be getting the most out of the drug, but it will still be the same effects as when you were on oxy.

    You've said you don't want fent patches and I agree that they are difficult to abuse and can absolutely destroy your tolerance making further treatment for pain much more difficult. Buprenorphine and methadone are also options (and if you like the stimulation of oxy you might like bupe), but the long lasting effects of these will also negatively effect your tolerance and oxymorphone and hydromorphone are better ideas to try first.
     

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    #3
    Yeah I have no interest in taking HydroCodone as it takes me 90 mg of my original medication OxyCodone to get where I would like to be & that would destroy my liver with all that tylenol. It seems that Opanas have no oral value at all (or is this not true and you just need to take more? if so, how much Opana oral would it take to equal the feeling of 90mg of OxyCodone? Again I don't really like the feeling of Opana, it doesn't feel like Hydrocodone & OxyCodone). I don't believe Opana works, period. If anybody knows about Oral use & Opana and how/if it will feel the same as Oxy let me know. Put it this way, 40mg of OxyCodone will get me a larger buzz than 40mg Opana ER orally. Im really annoyed right now, everything else sounds like it doesnt do shit orally. I even read Dilaudid does nothing orally, is this true? I really need help here man.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm with Allegator. You can take opana ER's orally too, but you will just have to bump up your dosage to get the desired effects. You can also ask for opana IR instead. The problem with oral opana is that it's BA is really low, I think taken orally, it is only 2x stronger than oxy, whereas IV it is closer to 10x as strong. And if the opana is ER, and 10mg, that's pretty much like taking 20mg of OxyContin without breaking the time release. If you get the 10mg IR's it will be like taking 20mg of oxycodone IR.
     

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    #5
    Thanks dude, but do you have any experience with Opana oral highs? It literally just made my chest tight & it fuckin' sucked. It doesn't feel like OxyCodone at all. So once my tolerance is a lot lower, your saying like 45mg of Opana orally will feel almost identical to 90mg of OxyCodone? I just find it so hard to believe & I took 40mg orally and it did nothing at all. Am I better off with Dilaudid for oral use? Im so fucking annoyed I have to go through this bullshit now when I have legit problems. Morphine doesn't touch my pain or even give me a buzz.
     

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    #6
    You can get hydrocodone without the APAP or other NSAIDs it is just not as common.

    As we are saying though all the medications are active orally and you just have to take more than you would if you were taking them by other ROAs if they have a lower oral B.A. Along those lines this sentence doesn't make sense.
    Morphine doesn't touch my pain or even give me a buzz.
    Morphine isn't intrinsically unable to take away the pain or get you high, it's just that you aren't taking enough of it because it is weaker on a per unit mass basis than oxycodone when taken orally.

    All of these narcotics are mu-opioid agonists and they all work in basically the same way. No matter how they get into your system or how good they are at being able to cross the BBB or bind to the receptors, you can get an "equivelent" level in your blood stream to kill pain and produce similar psychoactive effects.

    Also the reason you didn't get a high from the oxymorphone is because Opana ER is an extended release preperation so it distributes the absorption (and therefore effects) over a longer period of time. Akin to spreading your 90mg IR Roxicodone out over the day by taking 10mg ever hour or so.
     

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    #7
    Bluelighter Fire&Water's Avatar
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    I didnt mean to sound "preachy" on your other thread, but it sounds like your Dr. will probably double up your script' if you complain that the 2 x 10 mg. isnt killing enough pain = (2 x 20 mg's) a dose. But believe that you will be one of the fortunate ones being prescribed this med' after it builds up in your system.
     

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    #8
    Bluelight Crew Oxide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusTrynaNod View Post
    Im so fucking annoyed I have to go through this bullshit now when I have legit problems. Morphine doesn't touch my pain or even give me a buzz.
    OP, I feel that it is important to mention that if you're going to be using opiates for long term pain management, picking the most abusable drug and formulation is not in your best interest, especially in the long run.

    It might sound silly, or it might make perfect sense, but any way that you slice it if you're abusing your pain meds you are going to have a lot of difficulty actually managing your pain. It might be a good choice to look into switching (and of course adjusting) to something that might be a little less enticing, although I know that is obviously easier said than done.

    Quote Originally Posted by JusTrynaNod View Post
    Morphine doesn't touch my pain or even give me a buzz.
    allegator nailed this on the head, so I'll just recap: Morphine has a pretty low oral bioavailability, especially compared to oxycodone which has a much higher oral BA. So, you'd need to take a higher dosage of morphine than you would of oxycodone to get equivalent effects.

    (excellent post, allegator.)
     

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    #9
    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusTrynaNod View Post
    Thanks dude, but do you have any experience with Opana oral highs? It literally just made my chest tight & it fuckin' sucked. It doesn't feel like OxyCodone at all. So once my tolerance is a lot lower, your saying like 45mg of Opana orally will feel almost identical to 90mg of OxyCodone? I just find it so hard to believe & I took 40mg orally and it did nothing at all. Am I better off with Dilaudid for oral use? Im so fucking annoyed I have to go through this bullshit now when I have legit problems. Morphine doesn't touch my pain or even give me a buzz.
    To be honest, I have only injected/plugged/sniffed opana. I never took it orally because of the low BA, but I likes the oxymorphone buzz, it is different than oxycodone, a little more noddy, but it's one of the best highs I've ever gotten. If you want something strong with a high oral BA, than go with methadone. Other than oxy, and hydrocodone, methadone has a pretty solid BA, and it's very potent. If you plan on still taking short acting opioids, I'd try to stick to no more than 30mg/day, because at higher dosages, and with chronic use, it has a blocking effect.
     

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    #10
    I suggest giving morphine a go around. It is more sedating than either oxycodone or oxymorphone, lasts a good while, and has very good painkilling properties. A lot of people aren't fond of oral morphine just because it is so much stronger at the same dose via other routes of administration, but it is really fine if you get the right dose. There are a lot of pharmaceuticals with morphine as their primary sole ingredient. MSIR, MS-Contin, Avinza, and definitely more than I cannot think of at the moment. Seriously, though, give morphine a shot.
     

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    #11
    imo opanas are the best opiate. but i snort or inject. the opana er will give you the warm speedy buzz like oxy if i snort em. when i was clean i snorted 1/2 10mg opana er and was feelin good in like 3 mins. but the opana 10mg IR those are beast mode. my mom gets those. even if you dont bang those snorting them is awsome, literally like 30 seconds after tootin it you feel it coming on. but trying to get past the timerx release system on the ERs is a pain. i had to break down the pill "after scraping the coating off" in ethanol. Mix well, then strain through cheese cloth. Let evap over low heat. added 2 cc's of H2O to the residue left after evap. used humulin syringe and drew up threw filter. pull back was prolly like 50-60 percent. just slightly lower buzz than just banging a 10mg IR straight up, those id say you prolly get 7mg back? just imo
     

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    #12
    ^ sorry for ramblin, just dosed on pst about 45 min ago... good batch
     

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    #13
    Word bro, see, I am very happy with the results of the Opana snorting (although I hate snorting shit & haven't my Oxycodone near my nose since the day i was prescribed them at 16, I defiantly did get crazy high for the tolerance I have, but the only thing is, Opana seems to have some real fuckin terrible side effects. My chest felt like it was fucking caving in. Also the day after taking it if you don't dose its 2x shitter than a day after OxyCodone, and at the end of the day I have a sister & mom that love me more than anything & they are my life & I can't be getting more problems with my body than I already have & I know for a fact that long term Opana snorting leads to that Sillicosis shit, it just makes my chest feel so fucking tight just when using them! Sad that such a potent drug has such terrible side effects). To the person who said they didn't meen to sound "preachy" in the other thread, I appreciate that, but I do not think everybody has the right idea of how I use my medication. When I have dislocations (4 failed surgeries) I will take them then. I would usually finish off my 90 roxy script in like 2 weeks & then call it a month until the next script, period. Big deal, feel like shit for 2-3 days, my body got used to this monthly ritual since I was 16. Now like I said, I have no interest in moral opinions because I know I am the 1 in a million that is able to do this shit in "semi moderation" (another words, when I have them, I have them, when there gone, they are gone). I decided to even quit doing the 90 in a 2 week period & am now keeping it a strictly Friday & saturday thing, I know you guys are like 'That is not possible' but it truly is for me. My mom is the my heart & soul & sadly I have to live with her still at 22 because she's the only 1 that puts my dislocations back in and those happen at least once a week. Therefor, I use this medication for a SERIOUS Degenerative Bone disease, but only a recreational use as well, BUT I can control it & when I talk with my mom and shed tears, family love like that is even more powerful than an addiction, to me at least. Im not saying I don't have an addiction, I'm saying I have an addiction I can control. Big difference. Anyways, back to the point of the thread. I actually do like morphine when I don't have a tolerance and the opiate calculator said 30mg of Morphine equals 20mg Oxycodone so maybe I will try that. 1 other question, do you think I should wait to have a low tolerance to give this Opana's a real oral evaluation before I give up this script & say I don't want it anymore? Please let me know. Im going to try to get the Opana IR's , and if he won't give me those, I will try the morphine & tell him obviously with my kind of pain I will need a higher dose to equal the 15mg of Oxycodone I have been prescribed all my life. I tell the doctor I don't take them everyday either so its not like I'm lying. Im REALLY looking for somebody with a good amount of experience with Opana orally. thank you all, stay safe.
     

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    #14
    To be honest, I plan on giving this Doctor the whole 9 yards about how ridiculous it is that people that abusing pain medication when patients that actually need to manage pain like myself, others have made oxycodone a taboo word when any doctor hears it & now are being marketed that Opana is a safer alternative, when in reality it has a whole lot more potential for misuse/abuse than OxyCodone due to the due Opana have an unheard of Nasal & IV Availability opposed to oral BA. Im just gonna say that, and at the end of the day there is no such thing as a "good medication" in the long run, but when push comes to shove & you have to live with fucking 4 failed surgeries & a 6 page MRI & CatScan that would make your cringe & have been denied by Yale doctors for any more surgery, you have to do what the fuck you have to do to live a semi-normal life, and I will not take this shit everyday, never have. If that doesn't work, fuck it, I give up.
     

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    #15
    its funny how you said the get the warm speedy buzz like oxy. I defiantly would classify the Opana high as a more of an "Upper" opiate feeling, opposed to others way its a downer. 90mg of OxyCodone has me nodding the fuck out which I love (The nodding is my favorite part, I guess thats another good thing to add for you guys to give me opinions on which to switch to.) Opana just seems sketchy as fuck dude. Dangerous stuff in generous, even more so opposed to other pharmaceuticals because obviously nothing is good for you.
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter
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    you abusing the medication too. so you sound like a big ass hypocrite right about now.
     

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by rob007 View Post
    you abusing the medication too. so you sound like a big ass hypocrite right about now.
    My thoughts exactly.


    OP you spend a thread trying to find the opiate that will give you the best high and then you turn around and complain about people who abuse opiates.

    I have chronic pain, but I know when I'm pushing beyond usage that I need for the pain and into doses that give me a quality buzz.

    Having chronic pain doesn't mean that you have carte blanche to use any pain med at any dose without being a drug abuser.
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter Keif' Richards's Avatar
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    Have you or your doctor considered methadone? I hear it is being used more and more frequently in pain management than it has been in the past. IME it lasts a long time, does a great job of managing pain, and is (from what I can gather) as effective orally as with any other route.
     

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    #19
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    Much experience with Opana here. 10mg orally will never get you anything in terms of recreational use. The bioavailability of oxymorphone is only 10% orally. Oxymorphone itself is 10x stronger mg per mg than oxycodone taken IV and 6x stronger nasally. The difference is oxycodone bioavailability orally is in the 60-70% range meaning 6-7x stronger orally than opana. IMO oxymorphone is the best opiate out there. Ive never had any tightness of the chest or any negative effects from opana that arent opiate related in general like constipation or itching. It may be that something else was going on that day and you attributed it to the opana??? But 10mg opana orally = less than a half a percocet orally. You aint never gonna get anything recreational out of oral opana.

    Now, if your goal is pain relief there isnt much out there that will defeat pain while leaving you able to function normally than a combination of 40mg opana ER with 4mg Dilaudid for break through pain. Orally neither are particularly special recreationally but both are superb pain killers....just not the type that give the euphoria that Roxis give orally. Taken any other route, however, Opana and Dilaudid are about as good as it gets in terms of euphoric bliss. Opana is much more noddy to me than Roxis. IV Opana, Dilaudid and Heroin are the three best opiate buzzes on earth that Im aware of. Conversely, oral Opana, Dilaudid and Heroin are the three most disappointing opiate buzzes on earth. Im with the other guys here though in that Im getting mixed signals from you on what your trying to accomplish.

    If you can go two weeks without your meds cause you took them all then you show signs of A) taking drugs for the recreational effects as opposed to pain management effects and B) not being in that much pain after all considering you can suck it up half the month. Id suggest you figure out if you want adequate pain management or an opportunity for recreational opiate consumption. The two have different answers. If your trying to get as much pain relief as possible then oral opana and dilaudid are what the doctor ordered. Thats what my pain doc switched me to when I complained that the roxies were making me too groggy. I had to work and wasnt interested in nodding out and getting fired at the expense of Roxies. Oddly, if you expanded your acceptable ROA youd find the same opana and dilaudid to be the best fit recreationally as well. OTOH, if your trying to get a buzz, wont do anything past oral and dont care about pain killing properties vs recreational then either take the fentanyl patches (then be prepared to learn to live slightly comatose until you get used to them) or get morphine. Morphine has a shitty oral bioavailability too at around 20% but they also come in 100mg and 200mg ER doses compared to 40mg Opanas. If you only take them orally I cant see why ER is a problem. Morphine has a great euphoric warmth to it thats tough to beat if you can get enough of it in you.

    Past that I think your out of options. We've covered everything short of codeine and ultrams. Figure out what you really want and save your rant for the forums. Your doc wont be impressed by a 22 year old kid lecturing him on the hypocritical nature of pain management. He made a decision that he'd rather you be on fentanyl at your age than oxycontin. I dont know if you realize how huge that is. Obviously he isnt trying to stifle your pain management but rather trying to protect his ass from the DEA as he perceives he needs to for whatever reason. Anything you say other than "thank you" will work against you and possibly get you a new doc who isnt so liberal with what he's willing to prescribe. Shit man, youre being offered ANYTHING except oxycontin. Think for a minute what that means. You arent going to change his mind....just piss him off by acting like a 22yo know it all who thinks he knows better than his pain management doctor how the world works. Hes not going to risk his license or business to keep you in your drug of choice...esp given hes apparently willing to offer you shit the rest of us would salivate over.

    Or do...up to you. But dont kid yourself that taking your prescription in half a month then somehow managing the other half at a young age is a good thig because you convince yourself you can manage your addiction. Your still a kid relatively speaking. No disrespect by saying that but I was 22 once too and knew all about managing my addiction. Pray you dont end up going through the shit Ive gone through due to your lack of respect for your own opiate issues. As long as you dont have a problem with what your describing to us you have a problem. You arent the first to say you dont/wont snort or IV opiates but I promise if you dont stop taking pain pills for fun you will be before much longer and thats a promise. The shit train dont go in reverse.
     

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    #20
    I actually have my MMJ card in California, it's the only thing that lets me live a semi-pain-free-non-addictive life. I moved out here from the East coast last year with my family strictly to stop having to take so many prescribed pain killers (back east I was getting 180 + 90 15mg RoxyCodone a month, keep in mind I have a Degenerative Bone Disease). When I tell you that cannabis literally alleviates every symptom I have (pain, anxiety, nausea especially, and many others). And the main thing is, MMJ lets me live a semi-pain-free-non-addicted life. My mother doesn't even use cannabis & she is a huge advocate for Medical Marijuana because she has seen her son battle with terrible pain since 16 years old & every pain medication under the sun (Did I mention I was prescribed 1mg xanax since 16 as well? I just stopped getting them 5 months ago by my choice! I decided those were just fucked up & now that I have my MMJ legally I didn't need them). My mom keeps telling me "You got what you wanted, a legal cannabis card that alleviates all your symptoms in a non addictive manner so you can live a productive life, you have to give to get, that is what we moved out here for". She is totally right & at the end of the day, it is what it is & I will try some morphine if he will do that or maybe not even get anything at all. I meen, it just won't feel right after 5 years of being prescribed something to not have that every month....it will be a total lifestyle change...it will be to weird to NEVER use again. I can say 1 thing, when I have a dislocation, I can smoke an ounce to my face and it won't get rid of that pain, but that pain is only 7 days of the month about depending on how many dislocations have. Day to day pain, MMJ can handle. Without that, I would be a fiend. It baffles me how its illegal, its all legal to be prescribed addictive narcotics but if you take them 30 days in a row your gonna be throwing up in the toilet after stopping cold turkey. stop cannabis cold turkey then come talk to me, no physical addiction what so fucking ever. thanks for all the replies.
     

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    #21
    & my Opana script without insurance (Which I have) was over 1000$. Mark my words this is the only reason Doctors are switching everybody off OxyCodone. OxyCodone with no insurance, generics cost a lousy like 60 bucks for a 90 quantity bottle.
     

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    #22
    Bluelighter
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    <NO PRICES. PLEASE READ THE RULES>

    Either way, smoke week and forget the painkillers. If your 22 and cant imagine life without them consider what its gonna be like when your in your mid 30s like me, twice in and out of a methadone clinic, addicted to opanas but on the needle rather than oral and augmenting it with heroin. I hadnt taken a pain killer at all until I was 21 and that was vicoden. Was 24 before i took my first oxycontin and didnt realize there were better pain killers than morphine until I was 25. Was 26 before I snorted anything and that was a xanax. Now I work in long sleeve shirts in New Orleans in July when its 110 degrees to cover the track marks running up both arms from 2" inside my shirt sleeve at my wrists all the way to my upper shoulder, shoot opana until I run out, then shoot dilaudid till it runs out, then recently moved up from nasal and smoked heroin to IVing it too to make it the rest of the month until I get a new script. I didnt even drink in college, didnt smoke pot until I was 20, was an officer in the army and first got on pain killers for a sciatic nerve I couldnt function without having medication to numb. I was the text book example of the guy who would never end up where I ended up.

    If you seriously can function on weed and dont need the pills do yourself a favor. Get the fuck off the pills. It doesnt get any better than it is right now for you. Your young, your body can bounce back and you said it yourself that you dont need the pills. Well, I dont need the pills for pain anymore but I sure as shit need the pills. Ive spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on pain killers, have collapsed veins, will likely die by the time Im 50 and all because I innocently went from one little tiny step upward to the next until there was no going back. The Methadone hurts more to kick than anythng Ive ever experienced and the reason I got back on the dope the last time was to kill the pain of methadone withdrawal.

    In short, there is no easy way back once you reach a certain point. If your already a junkie then by all means lets talk about how to maximize your effects from what youve got because as a junkie stopping isnt an option. Its all about making the best of what you have which in my case is learning how to make an Opana last 10x longer which meant the needle. I know of very few opiate users under 25yo who cant still take the option to go back. Had I listened to people givng me advice when I was in my late 20s I would have never been here. But I have an IQ of 145, was a Cavalry Officer, graduated wtih a 4.0gpa and get paid 6 figures for what I know as opposed to what I do. I thought I was smarter than the next guy and that the rules didnt apply to me. Well, they do apply to me. And you. And all of us. Im not trying to imply your an idiot or too dumb or young and naive to make good decisions....im trying to imply there wasnt a textbook example of someone who should have been able to avoid the position Ive found myself in than me myself and yet here I am. The junkies I know arent living on the streets....theyre some of the smartest people I know. To their detriment and mine, we all thought we were smarter than that and that we werent subject to the rules that applied to everyone else. Sadly, thats not the case with us nor is it the case with you. Im asking you to consider the shitty existence Im living in compared to what my life should have been and realize you have teh opportunity to do something I didnt do....GET THE FUCK OFF OPIATES NOW if you dont need them. If you can get by on weed and are apprehensive about a change in lifestyle after 5 years of having your oxy's imagine thats your absolute best case scenario for a productive life and fight through the changes living without meds you yourself said you dont need. You can ignore me if you like but Id wager 95% of us serious addicts were "in control" of our addictions when we started out. The truth is no one is in control of their addictions or they wouldnt be addicted. Look up the definition of addiction for God's sake. Theres no such thing. There is only a lie you tell yourself to justify your own lapse in judgement so you can do what you want to do without feeling guilty. Im telling you from experience that leads to compromise after compromise until you suddenly have no control whatsoever.

    If you can stop, stop. If you cant, get comfortable on these boards, get over your issues with nasal admin and learn proper IV tech. Your whole life is going to end up being one big opiate circle of get,use, crave, get, use , crave, die. And thats a fact.
    Last edited by Oxide; 07-02-2012 at 21:09.
     

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    #23
    edit: Nola, your an amazing person & in my prayers homie. I just re-read everything you wrote with my mom and some tears were shed. Your a good dude. The thing is, I feel like it would be more of a problem to not do them a couple times a month & at least "know" they are locked up in the safe. Do you know what I meen?
    Im very sorry for you that you did not have the willpower to stop when you knew you were in too deep. Don't come at me like that just because you can't use opiates in moderation. As I said before, Degenerative Bone Disease is some hard shit to live with, I have at least 7 dislocations a month & need my pain medication at least 10 days of the month. I have been prescribed this shit since 16 & been living in hell with this bone disease fucked up my whole life, & I do not consider an addiction that when you have them, you have them, when there gone, they are gone. No "addict" will sit there sick for 2 days & just grin & bear & realize you play you pay. Im not an addict what so ever, I am a recreational user AS WELL as a legit pain patient (pain you couldn't imagine brotha). As I said before, if it wasn't for MMJ I defiantly would be right there with you brotha. Have you tried smoking cannabis or is it just not your thing? If you can "trade" your addiction for cannabis (& with the amount of money I have seen some spend a day, they could smoke an ounce to there face). It will be pretty much like trading an addiction for a harmless addiction, lots of people stop opiates then just become addicted to benzos. Cannabis is a life saver to those who let it be. And I understand what you say about the crooked Doctors prescribing Oxy Contin, but at the end of the fucking day, all of this medication hits the same opiate receptors. A true nasal or IV addict that knows there shit will take Opana over OC any day of the week, therefor they all have the same potential for abuse, it just so happens OC is the most commonly known pain killer & has become a 'Taboo' word among the medical industry. All I can say is 1 thing, if its this hard for me to use them in moderation (Always counting down the days until that script comes when there gone) & I have the kind of willpower I do, it truly is a fucking evil medication. I wish I was never prescribed this fucking bullshit. They should of prescribed me fucking cannabis at 16. Fuck the government dude. So fucking shady.
    Last edited by JusTrynaNod; 07-02-2012 at 16:03.
     

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    #24
    Bluelighter
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    i dont know why you are preaching about shit that dont matter. you got a problem, take it up with your doctor. if he is not willing to help, get a different one.

    so you have chronic osteoporosis. are you on any treatments for that?

    and lets face it... you want to get high = you want to get high. stop sugar coating it.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter LSDiesel's Avatar
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    Just a few things I wanted to point out.

    You may benefit from having Hydrocodone. I know your tolerance would require you to take massive doses, but as was said there are rare formulations that have hyrdocodone without added stuff like Tylenol or ibuprofen. Also you could do a cold water extraction of vicodens and that would solve the liver issues and still be an oral way of consuming a painkiller. This works for percocets too. I'm not sure if your doctor wouldn't prescribe percs because he seems very anti oxycodone.

    Also, you may want to look into Kratom. It may do nothing for you, but you might want to give it a shot. If you never heard of it, it is an organic plant which has painkilling properties and some have compared the feeling to hydrocodone and oxycodone. It is not as convenient to prepare, either requiring that you eat massive amounts of dried up plant leaves, or making a bitterly tasting vile tea out of it.

    You might want to also consider making tea from poppy pods. That will have morphine and codeine in it.

    Both kratom and poppies wouldn't be covered by insurance, but also do not require any prescription. They can get to be just as expensive as a junk habit.

    You might want to seriously consider buprenorphine if you ever become sick and tired of being sick and tired.
     

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