5-HTP and serotonin syndrome

[whippa craka]

I have been casually using 5-HTP before bed and sometimes during the day, missing nights sometimes. Last night I took a 100mg pill. Within an hour or so I felt:

• Aggitated
• Restless (Couldn't focus on schoolwork, or anything for that matter)
• Felt on edge/uncomfortable
• From 0100-0400 I sat rolling in in bed
• Cold sweats the whole time
• Goosebumps (while sweating, uncomfortable)
• Diarrhea

Finally at 0600 I took a very warm shower, the cold sweats seemed to go away and around 0620 I finally fell asleep until 0730 and I had to go to class.
I still feel on edge and restless, plus the diarrhea (although mild, it never happens when I take fiber pills, which I have been doing) and cold sweats. If it's placebo I would be very surprised, and there's nothing suggesting I potentially am sick with anything else.

Looking around, I found a site listing these as basic symptoms of SS, I can fit into just about all of them:

• Agitation or restlessness
• Confusion
• Rapid heart rate and high blood pressure
• Dilated pupils
• Loss of muscle coordination or twitching muscles
• Heavy sweating
• Diarrhea
• Headache
• Shivering
• Goose bumps

I know SS ranges from mild to severe, and this is obviously mild. Does it sound like a mild case of SS? I did not take any other drugs that day (nothing at all besides multi-vitamin). I am sure I will feel fine by this evening.

 

[Allein]

IMO it's unlikely 100mgs would cause serotonin syndrome, 5-HTP can give some odd effects, I gave it a go for about 6-8 weeks a good while ago in an effort to self medicate for depression. At first I got a definite "up" from it way beyond placebo, with daily use this soon went away but the nightmares got worse and worse.

I persevered for a while longer but whilst away for work staying at a hotel I woke up at about 3 am after the worst nightmare I have had in my adult life, I only remember flashing images of it now but it left me very disturbed for many days.

There is a great deal of information out there on 5-HTP, from personal experience I would treat it like another anti-depressant in that it could cause some unpleasant and certainly unwanted side effects some know some not. Its impossible for anyone to diagnose SS over the net so I guess it may be that.

It sounds like your on the mend if things start to get worse or you continue to feel ill you should seek medical assistance, are you with other people or can you ensure someone checks in on you just in case?

 

[whippa craka]

I am feeling slightly better and better as time goes on.

I have taken 5-HTP with small doses of DXM/Tramadol to see what effects there are and I felt very similar. Uncomfortable, sweaty, clammy and restless. I am sure I have just gotten some bad side effects, but every symptom I get points to SS (very mild. SS is hard to diagnose anyway, and IMO it occurs ALL THE TIME in people, just varying in severity, from not even noticeable all the way up to seizures.)

I feel better however. Sides are sides, but I have no reason to be taking 5-HTP so I am staying away for a while. The past 20 hours or so have just stunk.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

5-HTP stimulates you to produce more serotonin so there is a limit on the effect it can have on 5-HT. It alone can not produce serotonin syndrome which is a serious, life-threatening condition that requires immediate medical attention. You hit on a couple symptoms of SS that can easily have loads of other causes you certainly did not have serotonin syndrome.

 

[nAON]

Don't ever combine it with DXM or Tramadol again. As Cane said, by itself it's unlikely to cause SS, but when you combo it SRI drugs it starts to get dangerous.

 

[Allein]

5-HTP stimulates you to produce more serotonin so there is a limit on the effect it can have on 5-HT. It alone can not produce serotonin syndrome which is a serious, life-threatening condition that requires immediate medical attention. You hit on a couple symptoms of SS that can easily have loads of other causes you certainly did not have serotonin syndrome.

Its been a while since i did my research into 5-HTP before giving it a go, I was fairly certain that 100mgs couldn't possibly cause SS but I can see why the OP might have though so, this site suggests it might at high doses and was a top hit on google:-

http://www.5-htp.org.uk/5-htp-side-effects.php

Don't get me wrong C2L I'd take your judgment over their's

 

[Cane2theLeft]

That link does NOT say 5-HTP alone can cause it but that serotonergic drugs in general when taken in excess can. I still contend that alone, 5-HTP can not (due to its mechanism of action) but if combined with other serotonergic drugs then yes, it can.

 

[whippa craka]

5-HTP stimulates you to produce more serotonin so there is a limit on the effect it can have on 5-HT. It alone can not produce serotonin syndrome which is a serious, life-threatening condition that requires immediate medical attention. You hit on a couple symptoms of SS that can easily have loads of other causes you certainly did not have serotonin syndrome.

SS is not necessarily life threatening. It is like alot of poison (alcohol poisoning for example), effects range from very mild (if-noticable) to life threatening

 

[whippa craka]

In addition to my last post my heart rate was at 90+ BPM ALL DAY while resting. normally it is 60-65. everything is now finally back to normal (70-75bpm however)

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Serotonin Syndrome, or 'toxicity', is a poorly understood and loosely defined medical condition.
Too often technical terms in medicine suggest a thorough understanding that is simply NOT present.

What is know about SS is that it involves an increase in brainstem serotonin activity that leads to the symptoms your describe. Chest pain and tachycardia are considered the hallmark signs of SS, while tremors/stiff muscles/aphasia and fever are considered signs of SEVERE SS.

'Brainstem' serotonin activity is a clear illustration that how serotonin is effected throughout the brain is not understood.
But they can clearly tell that brain-wide activity goes up.
And in the medical literature, most cases of 'severe' serotonin syndrome require the interaction of TWO or more offending medications/drugs. Generally serotonin releasing agents, like MDMA or fenfluramine, and MAOIs are the most deadly combination. But case-studies exist that incriminate SSRIs as well.
And BL contains several examples of Effexor + Tramadol = horrific death.

While your case does sound 'moderate' (not mild) and you only took ONE offending supplement that you have admitted to...

I agree with your self-diagnosis.
Again, SS is a loosely defined condition involving a VERY complex neurotransmitter system.
And with older anti-depressants like MAOIs, it is well known that certain FOODS can interact with medication that sits in the GI.

After all, serotonin primarily exists to contract the smooth muscle around the intestines.
It is where 90% of it is located!

When you take 5-HTP multiple days in a row, you end up with the serotonin supplement sitting all along the length of your GI. So you eventually take a dose that begins increasing brain serotonin in the stomach at the SAME time that your small and large intestines are already doing the same.

This sounds like an overlap to me.
And the symptoms are spot on for SS.
But it wasn't severe or you would have described a 'heart-attack' and EXTREME anxiety.
I would know - MDMA + DPH gave me the worst night of my life.

As you can see, I have read much about SS.
I strongly strongly recommend you stop taking 5-HTP.
It it linked to cardiac damage, by the way.
And long-term use is NOT recommended for MOST amino acids.
Your body is designed to extract what it needs from a healthy diet - you should NOT be forcing it to accept ongoing increases in ANY amino acid, unless you can show that you are deficient.

A high protein diet, esp. lean protein with lots of milk and fish, will provide ALL the typtophan you need.
Add b-vitamins and magnesium and your body will make all the serotonin it could possibly need.
And never cause you such a horrible night.

If you insist on taking something, switch to plain l-tryptophan.
This slows down the metabolic process, because your body must add the hydrogen molecule through liver metabolism.
The 'h' in 5-htp stands for 'hydroxy'.
And most drugs need to be in the 'hydroxy' form to cross the brain blood barrier.
This is why eating cannabis is SO much more potent than smoking it!

Stop slamming extra serotonin into your brain's most intricate and far-reaching nerve system.
Leave your brain-gut circuitry alone, and you will recover just fine.
And exercise for quicker recovery.

Good luck.

 

[Mr. Tambourine Man]

Your symptoms sound very reminiscent of SS, so you may be a experiencing some mild symptoms.

I've had two experiences that were almost certainly SS, once after (stupidly) mixing 5-HTP and DXM, and later after taking Ropinirol with Trazadone (after having had some tyrosine earlier). Almost all of your symptoms are similar to my experience with SS. The cold-sweats, agitation, and feeling on-edge all point to SS, hopefully not at a dangerous level. Also, the 20 hour duration supports your theory, SS can have quite a long duration.

Glad you're feeling better, SS is just miserable. Also, ditto the above advice about not mixing 5-HTP with DXM/Tramadol.

 

[whippa craka]

I am almost sure it is SS. I have still not slept since the experience, but It's the next day and I'm just about good to knock out. The day was quite miserable and restless. I have not felt so anxious and restless since my teens, plus the cold sweats and goosebumps.

I had mild chest pains and was screwing up my speech mildly, but quite stupidly. One night I tried 6mg of melatonin and 200mg of 5-HTP and had almost just as much of a miserable night. I am aware of 5-HTP's conversion to melatonin, but regardless I took the combo. It may sound crazy, and it probably is, but I tried low doses of these drugs together to see if any harmful reactions that were occurring were noticeable. Indeed they are.

I am aware of just about everything you said minus the BBB material and DPH interactions. I also took 50mg DPH to try and get to sleep, I was not aware of any interactions that diphenhydramine has with these drugs, am I wrong?

Obviously stupid, but I am quite experimental and push the line on these things, but ever so mildly if I can. I feel I know my limits and can tread these situations carefully, I have never had a situation worse then this. I hope this is not coming off as too strong but these are one time occurrences, so don't worry

 

[ErrorFairy]

Wow okay that explains why I just had to get a jar of Miralax from impacted stool. Thanks 5 htp...ugh I wish I knew how bad this was on the liver..